new statement (19 Viewers)

[Grendel]

Let’s be blunt here. It’s picking up on a couple of woolly statements from Councillors. It’s not a smoking gun. It’s not any different to any other politician blather.

What matters isn’t comments from individuals if they are to prove a conspiracy, it’s the meetings of and reports to the council as a whole. And that left a loophole big enough to drive a bus through. Because no sane person would sign a lease that forces them to have a tenant at any cost.

I know you desperately want it to be a smoking gun, I get it, a quick Sisu win and this whole thing is behind us. But this ain’t it. Just like it wasn’t it the last ten times either.

This is just an attempt to get pressure on the council, without any actual action they want the council to take. It’s just screaming into the void, the Sisu version of the tiny sky blue coffin.

It’s not enough of a vote winner to impact the council and it’s not solid enough to be legally useful.

What it is is a sign that we likely won’t be playing in Cov next year.

Which is why all local Councillors are so mocked - all are basically as thick as pigshit and just there for the Kudos

 

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[Nick]

So a statement from the council leader shouldn't be taken seriously?

Which are the points being made. They have all been bullshitting, constantly.

 

[covcity4life]

shmee take your council hat off please

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Woolly? Can you tell me what is woolly about the following statement. Tell me how it can misinterpreted or miscontrued?

Ann Lucas: “Let me be clear, any deal around the future of the Ricoh Arena must not happen if it threatens the future of the Sky Blues or Coventry Rugby Club.”

Because at the time CCFC's director and chairman was saying the club were close to building their own new stadium, and thus the future of CCFC and it's ability to continue playing could be said to be secure in the long term when the deal was done.

The bigger issue was the rugby club, as it would be bringing direct competition in to them. They did argue at the time that it would raise the profile and interest of rugby in the city and thus could lead to higher attendances for CRFC. Personally I think it's a weak argument but not one I could categorically disprove.

 

[Grendel]

Ffs, some people just don't get it.
No fucker wants the club gone, but people need to understand why decisions were made, any idiot can come on here and say the council are a bunch of tossers, but how many understand the political situation behind the matter AT THE TIME!.
understand this, (if nothing else) although mistakes have been made by ALL sides, if the club folds, the ultimate responsibility will be SISU's and No one else's.
Just remember that when people on here start kicking off at the council house.

Christ are you John Mutton - apt user name at least

 

[Grendel]

Because at the time CCFC's director and chairman was saying the club were close to building their own new stadium, and thus the future of CCFC and it's ability to continue playing could be said to be secure in the long term when the deal was done.

The bigger issue was the rugby club, as it would be bringing direct competition in to them. They did argue at the time that it would raise the profile and interest of rugby in the city and thus could lead to higher attendances for CRFC. Personally I think it's a weak argument but not one I could categorically disprove.

Kevin Maton said there was no land available to build a new stadium that qualified under EFL rules

Great try though

 

[Nick]

Because at the time CCFC's director and chairman was saying the club were close to building their own new stadium, and thus the future of CCFC and it's ability to continue playing could be said to be secure in the long term when the deal was done.

The bigger issue was the rugby club, as it would be bringing direct competition in to them. They did argue at the time that it would raise the profile and interest of rugby in the city and thus could lead to higher attendances for CRFC. Personally I think it's a weak argument but not one I could categorically disprove.

So if they assumed CCFC wouldn't be there, why even mention them? Why not say "until their stadium is built"?

Going off bullshit statements, the council didn't actually need to sell did they?

It's getting a bit desperate, as I keep pointing out.

 

[torchomatic]

Because at the time CCFC's director and chairman was saying the club were close to building their own new stadium, and thus the future of CCFC and it's ability to continue playing could be said to be secure in the long term when the deal was done.

The bigger issue was the rugby club, as it would be bringing direct competition in to them. They did argue at the time that it would raise the profile and interest of rugby in the city and thus could lead to higher attendances for CRFC. Personally I think it's a weak argument but not one I could categorically disprove.

Bullshit.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

So a statement from the council leader shouldn't be taken seriously?

Which are the points being made. They have all been bullshitting, constantly.

I'm not saying it shouldn't be taken seriously at all, just that it cannot be taken as legally enforceable or an obligation. It's shit PR for the council and Ann Lucas certainly.

Yes, they've all been bullshitting and undertaking a propaganda war since the sale, but there's nothing there from any side which can be used to end this impasse.

 

[Nick]

I'm not saying it shouldn't be taken seriously at all, just that it cannot be taken as legally enforceable or an obligation. It's shit PR for the council and Ann Lucas certainly.

Yes, they've all been bullshitting and undertaking a propaganda war since the sale, but there's nothing there from any side which can be used to end this impasse.

I don't think many seriously think that condition will reverse things. They want all of the bullshit to be called out and nobody in it all to sit comfortably like the council want to relying on the Telegraph and the Trust to cover for them

 

[chiefdave]

So the argument seems to be we shouldn't believe very clear statements made by the council but we should believe every word Fisher comes out with.

 

[chiefdave]

I'm not saying it shouldn't be taken seriously at all, just that it cannot be taken as legally enforceable or an obligation.

Nobody is suggesting legal action, although I'm sure it will be talked about in SISU offices for JR3.

What is being said is the council have clearly and deliberately lied repeatedly. Their reasoning now is that everyone else misunderstood what was set yet can't / won't produce a single piece of evidence to back up their claims.

That isn't something that should just be brushed aside, they should be under pressure until they either present evidence or admit they lied.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Kevin Maton said there was no land available to build a new stadium that qualified under EFL rules

Great try though

That was within CCC boundaries, but it may have been possible land had been found in neighbouring boroughs. It was TF who said they'd got a site ready to purchase and plans for the stadium design agreed. That is were the council could, rightly or wrongly, put forward an argument that the sale wouldn't affect the future of the club.

 

[torchomatic]

So the argument seems to be we shouldn't believe very clear statements made by the council but we should believe every word Fisher comes out with.

That's always been the case. Fisher is a liar accept for "three weeks" and "new ground".

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

So if they assumed CCFC wouldn't be there, why even mention them? Why not say "until their stadium is built"?

Going off bullshit statements, the council didn't actually need to sell did they?

It's getting a bit desperate, as I keep pointing out.

This is only guessing, but I guess they mentioned them to appease the football/rugby fans in a poorly worded attempted to reassure them that the clubs mattered to the city and the council. If they hadn't mentioned them there'd have been people saying "why aren't they talking about the football/rugby club and saying they won't let anything happen to them?" Damned if they do....

According to the council, no they didn't need to sell. I'm not convinced that was true (certainly long term without extensive and expensive refitting of the arena for other entertainment and that would've been heavily reliant on getting a lot of gigs/functions that I don't think they'd have managed). As I've said I think it was more a desire to sell to get the pain in the arse stadium away from them (worked out well eh?)

I agree it could've contained a caveat like until their stadium is built. Of course they would then have considered how SISU etc would interpret that - could they use it as an excuse to drop the stadium plans and when rent negotiations come around point to this and say we've got a right to play here until we build a new ground and just refuse to pay again and take legal action if Wasps refused? It's a total lack of goodwill and fair play by all.

 

[torchomatic]

That was within CCC boundaries, but it may have been possible land had been found in neighbouring boroughs. It was TF who said they'd got a site ready to purchase and plans for the stadium design agreed. That is were the council could, rightly or wrongly, put forward an argument that the sale wouldn't affect the future of the club.

Why didn't she say: this deal would not go ahead if CRFC would be affected in any way. As for CCFC they are building their own stadium, so they're sorted, me ducks.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Nobody is suggesting legal action, although I'm sure it will be talked about in SISU offices for JR3.

What is being said is the council have clearly and deliberately lied repeatedly. Their reasoning now is that everyone else misunderstood what was set yet can't / won't produce a single piece of evidence to back up their claims.

That isn't something that should just be brushed aside, they should be under pressure until they either present evidence or admit they lied.

As I've said I want to see that 4 year thing questioned and torn apart. I just can't believe they even used it in the first place as it wasn't necessary, but now they have it needs severe questioning as all it does it make you suspicious.

 

[Skyblue_CP]

Might have already been covered, but the club have tweeted saying that they expect a statement from the owners in the coming days... wonder what they have to say...

 

[olderskyblue]

Nobody is suggesting legal action, although I'm sure it will be talked about in SISU offices for JR3.

What is being said is the council have clearly and deliberately lied repeatedly. Their reasoning now is that everyone else misunderstood what was set yet can't / won't produce a single piece of evidence to back up their claims.

That isn't something that should just be brushed aside, they should be under pressure until they either present evidence or admit they lied.

Serious question. What do you think it will achieve chief? What comes after that?

 

[Nick]

Serious question. What do you think it will achieve chief? What comes after that?

What does questioning everybody and calling them out achieve?

It means that certain parties can't stick the boot in or screw over CCFC and just get away with saying SISU and hiding.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

So the argument seems to be we shouldn't believe very clear statements made by the council but we should believe every word Fisher comes out with.

From a legal perspective there is nothing that can be used against the council(lors) in those statements and the documents are filled with caveats and proviso's.

If you want to use those councillor quotes as enforceable evidence, then those made by TF about the stadium also have to be considered in the same vein. On the flip side, if you think TF's statements should only be considered as aspirational rather than solid evidence, then the councillors have to be as well.

 

[Chipfat]

I get and understand the problem with what the CCC have done within this situation, but if they are held to words that have been spoken then we should hold TF and JS in the same breath if not more. When you move a club out of its city, when you then state that you don't lie or bluster and on National radio and in the same conversation state that "ship is sailed" on a return then those left holding the baby have to act.

We don't like the actions taken and don't like any party that has played its part but 7 courts hearings, years of cases and multiple threats and breaking of contracts or promises have brought us here. Sooner or later it has to stop, and when we look back we will find multiple mistakes along the way, but for me the biggest one's was ever letting Sisu and CCC come into our club.

We should all agree its a sad place to be as a club but someone now has to make a real tough call or it will carry on and we will have to pretend we are a well run club with a secure future. I hope the FL make a stand and take action that will stop the merry go round of he said she said and at least make someone or multiple people do the right things for once. If they let it carry on it will only raise its ugly head again and again.

 

[Nick]

From a legal perspective there is nothing that can be used against the council(lors) in those statements and the documents are filled with caveats and proviso's.

If you want to use those councillor quotes as enforceable evidence, then those made by TF about the stadium also have to be considered in the same vein. On the flip side, if you think TF's statements should only be considered as aspirational rather than solid evidence, then the councillors have to be as well.

Then again, Tim Fisher isn't a council leader.

He is a bullshitting twat who has no responsibility about lying to the tax payers and misleading them.

Councillors are seemingly bullshitting twats who do.

You can see the difference right?

 

[Chipfat]

Problem is Nick, it doesn't matter what is posted, or what media outlet springs an exclusive!!!! they have all bent the truth and all played a big part in the past, which leads us to today. What we now need is for all of them to be told to make a decision that effects the future, by the FL. We need closure and we need to know as a fanbase where the club is, if outside the city then we all can decide is it still our club to support or find an alternative. Its a sad state but we as fans need it to stop and so we can all make an informed decision on what we do and see.

 

[Nick]

Problem is Nick, it doesn't matter what is posted, or what media outlet springs an exclusive!!!! they have all bent the truth and all played a big part in the past, which leads us to today. What we now need is for all of them to be told to make a decision that effects the future, by the FL. We need closure and we need to know as a fanbase where the club is, if outside the city then we all can decide is it still our club to support or find an alternative. Its a sad state but we as fans need it to stop and so we can all make an informed decision on what we do and see.

The football league has no power to tell them to make a deal.

Part of what has led to today is letting other sides get away with whatever they want just because they aren't SISU. This is to the point the council leader is gloating about it.

None of them give a shit about CCFC, they only do when they can get something out of it. They all need calling out. Each side needs to know that if they play their part in CCFC dying it will kick off.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Then again, Tim Fisher isn't a council leader.

He is a bullshitting twat who has no responsibility about lying to the tax payers and misleading them.

Councillors are seemingly bullshitting twats who do.

You can see the difference right?

TF is a bullshitting twat in a position of authority and power who has an obligation and responsibility not to lie and mislead. He is a custodian and representative of the club and therefore should be held accountable as such.

Councillors are bullshitting twats in a position of authority and power who have an obligation and responsibility not to lie and mislead. They are custodians and representatives of the city and therefore should be held accountable as such.

 

[Nick]

TF is a bullshitting twat in a position of authority and power who has an obligation and responsibility not to lie and mislead. He is a custodian and representative of the club and therefore should be held accountable as such.

Councillors are bullshitting twats in a position of authority and power who have an obligation and responsibility not to lie and mislead. They are custodians and representatives of the city and therefore should be held accountable as such.

Yet nobody is saying that Fisher shouldn't be held accountable.

People are saying the council shouldn't be. They have more of an obligation and more standards to adhere to don't they?

That is the point being made, hold them all to account for their bullshit and make them explain it. That doesn't exclude Fisher.

 

[Chipfat]

Again, i can say Tim was gloating while being interviewed when he took the club to NTFC . But where does it gets us... I'm not saying the FL have the power to get them to deal, i'm saying take it out the equation and say "you can all do what you want" and we will vote on in April, as we are not prepared for you to move again. Put the kids in the corner and force them to face the situation.

If this does not happen then Sisu will move again and this time say well why we even bothering to look back or ever go back. They have used the FL before and will look again at them with the same contempt as you do in regards to FL power, they will think they are weak without power and we have it over them. If that day comes Nick then what will fans do, and that is what some should be thinking about, not he lied she lied or they have an agenda. I think we all know they have a reason, but it needs to stop and we as fans need to know where, when and how long before anyone buys a ticket, a shirt or a drink. This is a very important moment because if allowed again we may never again have the club we know in the city where it was born...

 

[Nick]

Again, i can say Tim was gloating while being interviewed when he took the club to NTFC . But where does it gets us... I'm not saying the FL have the power to get them to deal, i'm saying take it out the equation and say you do what you want and we will vote on in April, as we are not prepared for you to move again. Put the kids in the corner and force them to face the situation.

If this does not happen then Sisu will move again and this time say well why we even bothering to look back or ever go back. They have used the FL before and will look again at them and do like you are they are weak without power and we have it over them. If that day comes Nick then what will fans do, and that is what some should bethinking about not he lied she lied or they have an agenda. I think we all know they have a reason, but it needs to stop and we as fans need to know where, when and how long before anyone buys a ticket, a shirt or a drink. This is a very important moment because if allowed again we may never again have the club we know in the city where it was born...

OK, so if the importance is to get a deal you list out who can make that deal, who has influence on making that deal and go at them all to try and make one of them cave. Surely?

 

[AVWskyblue]

TF is a bullshitting twat in a position of authority and power who has an obligation and responsibility not to lie and mislead. He is a custodian and representative of the club and therefore should be held accountable as such.

Councillors are bullshitting twats in a position of authority and power who have an obligation and responsibility not to lie and mislead. They are custodians and representatives of the city and therefore should be held accountable as such.

What if the club sacked Fisher for his stadium comments that decieved us fans, by doing so it would set a precedent that the council officials who also deliberately decieved fans and the public should also be removed from office

Sent from my Alba7Nou using Tapatalk

 

[Nick]

What if the club sacked Fisher for his stadium comments that decieved us fans, by doing so it would set a precedent that the council officials who also deliberately decieved fans and the public should also be removed from office

Sent from my Alba7Nou using Tapatalk

Removed from office? They get made mayor.

 

[Liquid Gold]

I can't believe people are attempting to defend the council by saying they do the same as Fisher does. Fisher is a dickhead so call all the councillors that have lied to us dickheads and be done with it.

 

[chiefdave]

Serious question. What do you think it will achieve chief? What comes after that?

I don't believe for a second the council don't have influence over Wasps. Pressure on the council would lead to pressure on Wasps which is, IMO, the most likely route to resolving our immediate problem.

Also, ignoring it being CCFC, as a local taxpayer I don't think they should be allowed to outright lie to us and not be pulled up on it. We're at a point now where they're openly mocking, happy to tell the press they don't have to explain anything they get caught out on. That's unacceptable for me even if its an issue nothing to do with CCFC>

If you want to use those councillor quotes as enforceable evidence, then those made by TF about the stadium also have to be considered in the same vein. On the flip side, if you think TF's statements should only be considered as aspirational rather than solid evidence, then the councillors have to be as well.

I think its perfectly acceptable to assume Fisher is full of shit but at the same time expect your elected representative to tell you the truth.

One represents a secretive Caymen based hedge fund, the other is an elected member of a public body. Why are we applying the same standards to both?

 

[chiefdave]

TF is a bullshitting twat in a position of authority and power who has an obligation and responsibility not to lie and mislead.

Have you got a copy of the code of conduct for SISU employees where it states that applies to him? There's one for the council.

 

[Nick]

I can't believe people are attempting to defend the council by saying they do the same as Fisher does. Fisher is a dickhead so call all the councillors that have lied to us dickheads and be done with it.

That's the thing isn't it.

It's almost as if by comparing them to Fisher it makes them OK. The same as when the Trust do something it's "yeah but SISU don't listen to fans either".

Are they expecting people to say "No way, fisher does not lie" so they can get back on the "sisu apologist" track?

It is pretty straight forward.