Hang your heads in shame (7 Viewers)

[oldskyblue58]

That is to buy time to put the CCC loan in place i believe, at least that is how i read it

But also in those same emails is the following
"CCC is prepared to accept the Sisu offer of £5.5m as the value which they would have to meet should they exercise their right of preemption."
So were they saying they wouldnt let the Charity sell to SISU at all or were they saying they wouldn't sell with the loan structured as it was?

The bit that annoys me in those released emails is the details of a potential deal with Wasps in 2012. I have previously explained why it annoys me. But i have looked at the timelines, and whilst CCC were less than transparent with SISU the reverse was also true.

The Gidney email was dated 12/03/2012 and clearly did not suddenly happen and discussions happened for sometime before that. Was that deal as Wasps as anchor tenant? it looks to me like ACL were to own Wasps

On 21/04/2011 Otium was formed, sometime on or before 19/03/2012 ARVO lent Otium £2m who then lent it to CCFC(H). On 19/03/2012 ARVO took a charge over CCFCLtd and CCFCH ltd (not Otium) and as i explained at the time separated CCFC assets from its liabilities. Of course the financial year to 31/05/2012 was the year that assets couldn't be found or were mis-registered etc with accounts never being filed. Subsequently crucial for controlling the administration process

Both sides were being less than transparent at the same time. Neither were operating with CCFC as their primary concern. And i am not making excuses for either of them. Poor behaviour on all sides

 

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[Nick]

A shame PWKH isn't so keen to post using his various accounts any more to explain. Wonder why?

 

[oldskyblue58]

Whether heads of terms are legally binding or not it looks like SISU tried to make a bid!

Notwithstanding the clear conflict of interest with Mutton leader of the council being on the AEHC board at the time....




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

But that was as a director of Alan Higgs Centre Trust which wasn't involved in the Ricoh saga at all ....... it ran the Sports centre

 

[olderskyblue]

That is to buy time to put the CCC loan in place i believe, at least that is how i read it

But also in those same emails is the following
"CCC is prepared to accept the Sisu offer of £5.5m as the value which they would have to meet should they exercise their right of preemption."
So were they saying they wouldnt let the Charity sell to SISU at all or were they saying they wouldn't sell with the loan structured as it was?

The bit that annoys me in those released emails is the details of a potential deal with Wasps in 2012. I have previously explained why it annoys me. But i have looked at the timelines, and whilst CCC were less than transparent with SISU the reverse was also true.

The Gidney email was dated 12/03/2012 and clearly did not suddenly happen and discussions happened for sometime before that.

On 21/04/2011 Otium was formed, sometime on or before 19/03/2012 ARVO lent Otium £2m who then lent it to CCFC(H). On 19/03/2012 ARVO took a charge over CCFCLtd and CCFCH ltd (not Otium) and as i explained at the time separated CCFC assets from its liabilities. Of course the financial year to 31/05/2012 was the year that assets couldn't be found or were mis-registered etc with accounts never being filed. Subsequently crucial for controlling the administration process

Both sides were being less than transparent at the same time. Neither were operating with CCFC as their primary concern. And i am not making excuses for either of them. Poor behaviour on all sides

Hadn't the potential deal with Wasps been disclosed before, or rumoured at least? Seem to recall some reference to it on here years ago. Maybe wrong though.

If you look at it from ACL's point of view, having both CCFC and Wasps playing at the Ricoh would have made good business sense wouldn't it? Distasteful as it is to CCFC & Cov.

 

[pastythegreat]

I suppose i'll get shit from certain parties on here but the council don't run my football club never have done thank goodness ,Sisu do and a right mess they have made since they started in 2005 till 2013 they had plenty of time to put in an offer no one else was around no realistic offer was made in that time why not?They are the ones runnig MY club not the Council not Wasps they have had 6 years since returning nothing i keep looking for Tim's Stadium have not seen it yet.Sisu dont want and never will pay the going rate for anything want it on the cheap. Well they and no one else are the ones killing MY club .As for selling the ground on the cheap as far as i know the price was indepenantly set my be wrong.

Take your "I hate SISU" glasses off for a moment. Take a deep breath, and take a step back. Look at the bigger picture. Stop the tunnel vision at SISU. You are that wrapped up in hating SISU you can't even see the bigger picture. FAR too many people are guilty of it and quite honestly, it's a bit fucking embarrassing from a CCFC fans point of view. How we've just sat by and allowed (in some cases backed and supported) a London fucking franchise to just walk in to our city and our ground.

Now to cover your points, I'm gonna throw a few facts at you here, not opinions, not tunnel vision shouting at one person blindly. Just some facts.


Your opinion. Til 2013 they had plenty of time to put in a decent offer.
Fact. SISU tried numerous times to agree a better rent agreement and were robbed off by the council. I also seem to remeber we made offers to buy that were knocked back.

You opinion. They've been back 6 years and STILL nothing.
Fact. The ground (100% of It ACL half and Higgs half) is owned by w**ps. They made offer to both parties to buy and both decided to sell to w**ps.

Your opinion. I keep looking for Tims new stadium but nothing yet.
Fact. This won't happen, but even if it was going to, the council haven't been at all helpful in trying to make it work/happen. They've been more interested in helping out w**ps failed concerts and running up a bill for godiva.

Your opinion. SISU don't want and never will pay for anything and want it on the cheap.
Fact. Nobody in there right mind ever pays 1st price for something without negotiating. Why would SISU offer £100m for something that w**ps got on the cheap and never played full price for? Are you pissed off because w**ps bought OUR stadium for fuck all? Or that SISU didn't bid £100000000m for It?

 

[clint van damme]

Sisu took over in 2007 - nearly 12 years ago it is a long time for a hedge fund to hold onto an investment, I know to many on here there are merely victims subject to persecution from all sides but whilst they continue to own us it will be disappointment for us fans. I hate WASPs, Higgs and CCC for their role but I am personally convinced that a change in ownership will lead to a change in our fortunes.

could you provide some links or evidence that there are posters on here who think sisu are the victims?
I read this forum almost daily but i must have missed them.

 

[4waspsting]

How can a company afford to lose approx 10000 paying customers every 2 weeks
look at the high street shops what happens... dismal failure.. and bankrupt

 

[Johnnythespider]

Are some folks conveniently forgetting that ACL were trying to fuck CCFC in March 2012 by trying to buy WASPS to be their anchor tennant?

It would almost certainly have been since 2011, Gidney's email was someway down the line.

 

[Irish Sky Blue]

Take your "I hate SISU" glasses off for a moment. Take a deep breath, and take a step back. Look at the bigger picture. Stop the tunnel vision at SISU. You are that wrapped up in hating SISU you can't even see the bigger picture. FAR too many people are guilty of it and quite honestly, it's a bit fucking embarrassing from a CCFC fans point of view. How we've just sat by and allowed (in some cases backed and supported) a London fucking franchise to just walk in to our city and our ground.

Now to cover your points, I'm gonna throw a few facts at you here, not opinions, not tunnel vision shouting at one person blindly. Just some facts.


Your opinion. Til 2013 they had plenty of time to put in a decent offer.
Fact. SISU tried numerous times to agree a better rent agreement and were robbed off by the council. I also seem to remeber we made offers to buy that were knocked back.

You opinion. They've been back 6 years and STILL nothing.
Fact. The ground (100% of It ACL half and Higgs half) is owned by w**ps. They made offer to both parties to buy and both decided to sell to w**ps.

Your opinion. I keep looking for Tims new stadium but nothing yet.
Fact. This won't happen, but even if it was going to, the council haven't been at all helpful in trying to make it work/happen. They've been more interested in helping out w**ps failed concerts and running up a bill for godiva.

Your opinion. SISU don't want and never will pay for anything and want it on the cheap.
Fact. Nobody in there right mind ever pays 1st price for something without negotiating. Why would SISU offer £100m for something that w**ps got on the cheap and never played full price for? Are you pissed off because w**ps bought OUR stadium for fuck all? Or that SISU didn't bid £100000000m for It?

Fact - Under Sisu we have been relegated twice and last season, despite gaining promotion, finished in our lowest ever league position.
Fact - Sisu took this club to Northampton effectively holding it ransom simply to distress ACL (see judge’s comments in JR 1).
Fact - Last season’s average attendance was 9200. The average in Sisu’s first full season in charge was over 19000. They have therefore lost nearly 60% of our supporters. The fact is that that is a disaster.
Fact - Tim Fisher stated we were going to build a stadium in the Coventry area and even talked about a local authority being very enthusiastic about their plans. The fact is that he lied as FOI requests showed that no such plans were ever discussed with local authorities.

The fact is I could go on a lot more producing facts that show how bad Sisu have been but I can’t be bothered.
It is a fact that Sisu have been a complete disaster for this club and no amount of air brushing history is going to change that. The mess we are in is obviously down to all parties concerned. The attempt to paint Sisu as innocent is, however, laughable.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

That is to buy time to put the CCC loan in place i believe, at least that is how i read it

But also in those same emails is the following
"CCC is prepared to accept the Sisu offer of £5.5m as the value which they would have to meet should they exercise their right of preemption."
So were they saying they wouldnt let the Charity sell to SISU at all or were they saying they wouldn't sell with the loan structured as it was?

The bit that annoys me in those released emails is the details of a potential deal with Wasps in 2012. I have previously explained why it annoys me. But i have looked at the timelines, and whilst CCC were less than transparent with SISU the reverse was also true.

The Gidney email was dated 12/03/2012 and clearly did not suddenly happen and discussions happened for sometime before that. Was that deal as Wasps as anchor tenant? it looks to me like ACL were to own Wasps

On 21/04/2011 Otium was formed, sometime on or before 19/03/2012 ARVO lent Otium £2m who then lent it to CCFC(H). On 19/03/2012 ARVO took a charge over CCFCLtd and CCFCH ltd (not Otium) and as i explained at the time separated CCFC assets from its liabilities. Of course the financial year to 31/05/2012 was the year that assets couldn't be found or were mis-registered etc with accounts never being filed. Subsequently crucial for controlling the administration process

Both sides were being less than transparent at the same time. Neither were operating with CCFC as their primary concern. And i am not making excuses for either of them. Poor behaviour on all sides

The Otium point is well made, and one I hadn't considered. Clearly, I'm uncomfortable at the concept of a Wasps move being discussed, but this also didn't happen in a vacuum. I would like to know what provoked this, why it was provoked, and what had changed in relationships and why. Now... the answers may still present certain parties in an unflattering light, but we clearly don't have the full story, we have a partial one and, as you've pointed out, much of SISU's open letter is partial, and repeats elements which have actually been found against them, when it comes to it. Based on that track record... I ain't going team SISU just yet!

Your last paragraph is key, has always been key, and you could just as well use the present tense for that paragraph. One unfortunate thing in all this is it seems very groundhog day. The same moves and posturings are being made before we sodded off to Northampton. It's disgraceful it comes to this, and disgusting all parties decide the way to deal with this is by washing dirty laundry in public. It's like a bunch of six year olds running to teacher.

 

[clint van damme]

Fact - Under Sisu we have been relegated twice and last season, despite gaining promotion, finished in our lowest ever league position.
Fact - Sisu took this club to Northampton effectively holding it ransom simply to distress ACL (see judge’s comments in JR 1).
Fact - Last season’s average attendance was 9200. The average in Sisu’s first full season in charge was over 19000. They have therefore lost nearly 60% of our supporters. The fact is that that is a disaster.
Fact - Tim Fisher stated we were going to build a stadium in the Coventry area and even talked about a local authority being very enthusiastic about their plans. The fact is that he lied as FOI requests showed that no such plans were ever

Fact - Under Sisu we have been relegated twice and last season, despite gaining promotion, finished in our lowest ever league position.
Fact - Sisu took this club to Northampton effectively holding it ransom simply to distress ACL (see judge’s comments in JR 1).
Fact - Last season’s average attendance was 9200. The average in Sisu’s first full season in charge was over 19000. They have therefore lost nearly 60% of our supporters. The fact is that that is a disaster.
Fact - Tim Fisher stated we were going to build a stadium in the Coventry area and even talked about a local authority being very enthusiastic about their plans. The fact is that he lied as FOI requests showed that no such plans were ever discussed with local authorities.

The fact is I could go on a lot more producing facts that show how bad Sisu have been but I can’t be bothered.
It is a fact that Sisu have been a complete disaster for this club and no amount of air brushing history is going to change that. The mess we are in is obviously down to all parties concerned. The attempt to paint Sisu as innocent is, however, laughable.

Who is saying they are innocent?
I haven't heard anyone say that.
But the local council trying to kill off it's city's most popular sports team in the year their city is European city of sport aided and abetted by an out of town franchise they courted out of spite is beyond the pale.

We are on the verge of the death of CCFC, sisu will carry on regardless.

 

[fernandopartridge]

Steady On that's far too sensible and logical for this forum!

They took over in 2007, basic facts wrong rendering the whole post bollocks

 

[ccfcway]

How can a company afford to lose approx 10000 paying customers every 2 weeks
look at the high street shops what happens... dismal failure.. and bankrupt

cost model is different. High st needs customers and has fixed costs they have to have in order to attract them.

Football has income from elsewhere and can address loss of income in their budget. Debenhams still has to pay their staff the same wages. Football clubs can move players on and pay new players less

 

[Monners]

The Otium point is well made, and one I hadn't considered. Clearly, I'm uncomfortable at the concept of a Wasps move being discussed, but this also didn't happen in a vacuum. I would like to know what provoked this, why it was provoked, and what had changed in relationships and why. Now... the answers may still present certain parties in an unflattering light, but we clearly don't have the full story, we have a partial one and, as you've pointed out, much of SISU's open letter is partial, and repeats elements which have actually been found against them, when it comes to it. Based on that track record... I ain't going team SISU just yet!

Your last paragraph is key, has always been key, and you could just as well use the present tense for that paragraph. One unfortunate thing in all this is it seems very groundhog day. The same moves and posturings are being made before we sodded off to Northampton. It's disgraceful it comes to this, and disgusting all parties decide the way to deal with this is by washing dirty laundry in public. It's like a bunch of six year olds running to teacher.

Good post NW (can’t be arsed to comment further). And thanks OSB for the Otium bit

 

[Captain Dart]

cost model is different. High st needs customers and has fixed costs they have to have in order to attract them.

Football has income from elsewhere and can address loss of income in their budget. Debenhams still has to pay their staff the same wages. Football clubs can move players on and pay new players less

And go down.

 

[thekidfromstrettoncamp]

THEY AGREED A DEAL AND THE COUNCIL BACKED OUT!!!!

The head of terms in 2012 is the only 1 i know and that didn't take place because they (Susi) could not agree a deal with Higgs charity to buy their share not that the Council backed out, they BOTH decided not to procide

 

[ccfcway]

And go down.

no point in actually kicking a ball then if its all down to wage budgets I assume ?

 

[thekidfromstrettoncamp]

Which translates to

"If you can give me a link I will completely ignore it and just carry on as I was".

Found the link the only one i know thanks "oldskyblue58" I dont ignore it maybe forget due to age not to do with any point i want to make.

 

[Skybluefaz]

cost model is different. High st needs customers and has fixed costs they have to have in order to attract them.

Football has income from elsewhere and can address loss of income in their budget. Debenhams still has to pay their staff the same wages. Football clubs can move players on and pay new players less

Indeed. Debenhams doesn't have a ten percent sell on clause on Callum Wilson.

 

[win9nut]

How can a company afford to lose approx 10000 paying customers every 2 weeks
look at the high street shops what happens... dismal failure.. and bankrupt

Ask Wasps next season, they might be able to answer for you...

 

[oldfiver]

cost model is different. High st needs customers and has fixed costs they have to have in order to attract them.

Football has income from elsewhere and can address loss of income in their budget. Debenhams still has to pay their staff the same wages. Football clubs can move players on and pay new players less

Perhaps Debenhams not the best example
https://www.glassdoor.co.uk/Reviews/Debenhams-minimum-wage-Reviews-EI_IE8618.0,9_KH10,22.htm

 

[ccfcway]

Perhaps Debenhams not the best example
https://www.glassdoor.co.uk/Reviews/Debenhams-minimum-wage-Reviews-EI_IE8618.0,9_KH10,22.htm

doesn't that demonstrate the point ? They cant change pay structure to make savings if the market changes. Fixed costs.

 

[shepardo01]

Interesting to see what this article says, particularly noting the hashtag......

 

[Ashdown]

Didn't everyone say non-league in 2/3 years last time? Never happened did it.

Really there won't be much affect on the pitch, if we get all of the income from the match days, it will offset some of the loss from footfall. The budget won't take a huge hit and if Wilson/Bayliss are sold this summer, then that income will keep losses down for at least a couple seasons.

Chat shit, get banged you twat !

 

[Nick]

Interesting the replies to it.

 

[Nick]

Chat shit, get banged you twat !

Ay?

 

[theferret]

I note that Coventry United are making a fuss about a big announcement tomorrow at midday. They wouldn't, would they?

*Equally, it could be about a new shirt sponsor for the under 12s, so perhaps I'm just paranoid.

 

[MalcSB]

I get sick of the media always going to SBT and TJHW.

 

[Nick]

It was only the other week when stuff came out about the council moz said he was too busy for sbt stuff.

How predictable it's straight to the media now.

 

[chiefdave]

Interesting to see what this article says, particularly noting the hashtag......

I'm sure it will be a totally balanced piece highlighting the issues with all parties.

 

[thekidfromstrettoncamp]

rob 9872 post 20 I make mistakes a lot don't mind being corrected but if your going to do so please get your dates right."saddled with debt" they didn't have to do the deal.If i was going to rent a house and they said to me the rent is £2000 a month and didn't want to negotiate i would walk away why didn't they?You mention "Corrupt Council " I did say im glad they dont run my club.If the escrow account was up to date why did the much melined Mr Mc Ginnerty and Geoffrey Robinson have to pay £1500,000 each?(Coventry Live).Your peice in brackets means you do at least think along the same lines as me.

 

[thekidfromstrettoncamp]

Are some folks conveniently forgetting that ACL were trying to fuck CCFC in March 2012 by trying to buy WASPS to be their anchor tennant?

Try to look at this from A C L's point of view you are trying to run a Stadium to keep it profitable the more use you have of it the more profitable it would be.People on here talk as though Coventry City and only them should play there (i know it was built for us ) but if you rely on only one team of our size playing in a stadium you will find it hard.Something we will find very hard if Tims one ever gets built .

 

[Nick]

Try to look at this from A C L's point of view you are trying to run a Stadium to keep it profitable the more use you have of it the more profitable it would be.People on here talk as though Coventry City and only them should play there (i know it was built for us ) but if you rely on only one team of our size playing in a stadium you will find it hard.Something we will find very hard if Tims one ever gets built .

Ccfc were keeping acl running.

Maybe you can go and support some concerts or something for them?

 

[oldfiver]

doesn't that demonstrate the point ? They cant change pay structure to make savings if the market changes. Fixed costs.

As most shops employ part time and temporary staff and only on short term contracts, they make savings by employing less
In this case they are not fixed costs as the payroll can be flexed in line with demand

 

[thekidfromstrettoncamp]

Ccfc were keeping acl running.

Maybe you can go and support some concerts or something for them?

The way i look at it both clubs keep A C L going 2 trying to keep it going are better than 1.As for going to a concert i might just do.