Nick
Administrator
Is that one of those foam rollers?
Running (10 Viewers)
- Thread starter Macca
- Start date
clint van damme
Well-Known Member
went to a physio once who used one of them on my calf, nasty little torture device!
We'll_live_and_die
Super Moderator
3rd place out of 297 ain’t bad going mate. I made it just inside the top 100 on my first run back from 5 weeks out with injury.
Nice one... it’ll soon come back to you...
The chap who came 1st is a clubmate, he turned up in the middle of a 16 mile training run, ran round on the shoulder of the Sphinx guy, and then took him in the final few hundred yards. I was well behind them, over a minute, they just turned on the after-burners on the final lap.
The girl who came 4th looked strong, I was having a hard time sticking with her, but she didn’t seem to enjoy the trail section and once I was past her she couldn’t pull it back.
I think it’s an easier course mentally than Cov.... the first lap is a breeze, 4:10 for me today, then before you know it you're on the final lap and just got to dig in. But Cov does seem a bit faster.
The chap who came 1st is a clubmate, he turned up in the middle of a 16 mile training run, ran round on the shoulder of the Sphinx guy, and then took him in the final few hundred yards. I was well behind them, over a minute, they just turned on the after-burners on the final lap.
The girl who came 4th looked strong, I was having a hard time sticking with her, but she didn’t seem to enjoy the trail section and once I was past her she couldn’t pull it back.
I think it’s an easier course mentally than Cov.... the first lap is a breeze, 4:10 for me today, then before you know it you're on the final lap and just got to dig in. But Cov does seem a bit faster.
We'll_live_and_die
Super Moderator
I haven’t done cov for a few years, but hate the long slog up the back.
I’ve done about 34 Bedworth runs since it started and really enjoy the atmosphere down there.
Would love to get my times down to somewhere near sub 20. Current Pb is 24.20, any advice on getting quicker?
I’ve done about 34 Bedworth runs since it started and really enjoy the atmosphere down there.
Would love to get my times down to somewhere near sub 20. Current Pb is 24.20, any advice on getting quicker?
clint van damme
Well-Known Member
run faster
We'll_live_and_die
Super Moderator
Tried that. Didn’t work, just got knackered faster.
clint van damme
Well-Known Member
do you do interval training or sprint training, I'm far from an expert but I think that's a way to speed up though I'm sure Travs will confirm.
We'll_live_and_die
Super Moderator
I do some intervals, but without any guidance it’s difficult to know what to do for the best.
i don’t know anything about your current training, but if you’re not doing regular miles per week, a simple increase in miles can work up to a point...
The fact that you’re already at around 24mins would suggest that you’re already doing a reasonable amount of regular running. As above, the next thing to do is repetition/interval sessions... there’s a huge variety... my favourite is constant 400mtr reps on the track... with a decent rest period in between, something like 90secs or 2 mins, and just bash them out...
Examples of club rep sessions we do include 5 x 1 mile, 8 x 800mtr, 10-16 x 400mtr, 2 x 2 mile, or pyramid type sessions, something like 200-400-800-1000-1200-1000-800-400-200...
These are hard work and hurt if you do them hard, but they do the job.
24mins down to around 20 is certainly achievable... but it’s still a considerable chunk of time to knock off... the best suggestion, if you’re not already part of one, is to join a club (on the basis you’re asking for advice I’d assume you are not currently in a club). You certainly don’t have to be an 18min Parkrun type to be a member of any club, and there’s a good range of clubs in Cov...
The fact that you’re already at around 24mins would suggest that you’re already doing a reasonable amount of regular running. As above, the next thing to do is repetition/interval sessions... there’s a huge variety... my favourite is constant 400mtr reps on the track... with a decent rest period in between, something like 90secs or 2 mins, and just bash them out...
Examples of club rep sessions we do include 5 x 1 mile, 8 x 800mtr, 10-16 x 400mtr, 2 x 2 mile, or pyramid type sessions, something like 200-400-800-1000-1200-1000-800-400-200...
These are hard work and hurt if you do them hard, but they do the job.
24mins down to around 20 is certainly achievable... but it’s still a considerable chunk of time to knock off... the best suggestion, if you’re not already part of one, is to join a club (on the basis you’re asking for advice I’d assume you are not currently in a club). You certainly don’t have to be an 18min Parkrun type to be a member of any club, and there’s a good range of clubs in Cov...
We'll_live_and_die
Super Moderator
Pete are you getting over your issues yet buddy? Have you been down to Bedworth parkrun yet?
Sky Blue Pete
Well-Known Member
The key is doing training runs faster than you run the parkrun in. So shuttle runs and hill runs and fartlech runs are the Keys
So injured I can’t run consistently which gets me down far more than it should
Sky Blue Pete
Well-Known Member
No jogging with my daughter at parkrun each week and swimming lots
We'll_live_and_die
Super Moderator
Travs thanks for this advice.
I'm not running regular to be honest. 170km so far this year. I'm trying to do a 30second sprint 120second normal pace at the moment over 3-4miles.
A club isn't really an option as I work away a fair bit so can't get to Club nights on a regular basis.
I went out last night and did 6.2km with a 400m PR of 1.36 as part of it.
Hopefully this sort of thing will help? Got a bit slower in the middle section as all my sprints seemed to come on the Hills (I did Bedworth parkrun route).
I'm hesitant to give out specific advice as I am by no means qualified to...
However, my very honest advice would be to do all you can to fit in a steady but regular run each week, even if it is something like 5/6/7 miles... Fast pace on this one doesn't necessarily matter, just the increase in mileage each week would improve your performance.
With regards to the rep session... I'd strongly consider increasing the time of the rep from 30 seconds up to about 75 or 90 seconds, reducing the rest time a little if you can (if not then 120 secs is fine for now) and taking the rep at a slightly slower pace.
Thing to remember is 5km is an endurance effort, not a sprint... As someone mentioned above, the key is running faster, but doesn't need to be an all out sprint... Your rep should be a good effort, but should be something you can repeat after your rest period, and if anything do the first one a bit slow and then speed up if you can...
I'd tentatively recommend 400mtr reps, which you may be able to get down to 90-95secs, with 90 or 120secs rest. The rest period should be moving to stop you getting stiff, but I would walk those rest periods... 6 reps would be a good first effort and would give you 1.5 miles of hard work, which is effectively half a Parkrun at a pace faster than normal...
However, my very honest advice would be to do all you can to fit in a steady but regular run each week, even if it is something like 5/6/7 miles... Fast pace on this one doesn't necessarily matter, just the increase in mileage each week would improve your performance.
With regards to the rep session... I'd strongly consider increasing the time of the rep from 30 seconds up to about 75 or 90 seconds, reducing the rest time a little if you can (if not then 120 secs is fine for now) and taking the rep at a slightly slower pace.
Thing to remember is 5km is an endurance effort, not a sprint... As someone mentioned above, the key is running faster, but doesn't need to be an all out sprint... Your rep should be a good effort, but should be something you can repeat after your rest period, and if anything do the first one a bit slow and then speed up if you can...
I'd tentatively recommend 400mtr reps, which you may be able to get down to 90-95secs, with 90 or 120secs rest. The rest period should be moving to stop you getting stiff, but I would walk those rest periods... 6 reps would be a good first effort and would give you 1.5 miles of hard work, which is effectively half a Parkrun at a pace faster than normal...
We'll_live_and_die
Super Moderator
Thanks again for the advice, the bold bit is something I wouldn't have considered to be honest. I'd have not thought to walk during the rest. I've always taken rest periods to be a slower paced run. I'll deffo try and work something like this out though. Maybe sprint 400m then walk back to the start before going again would do the trick?
400mtr walk would probably take you between 4 and 5 minutes.... I'd suggest walking round close to your finish point for your rest period, and running the next rep in the opposite direction, to return you back to the start....
By all means jog your rest period if you can.... We are an "experienced" group however most rest periods are walking.. It's all about the quality and consistency of the reps which gets the results...
Another great rep session, and possibly even more helpful for building endurance at higher speeds, are 1 mile reps.... We usually do 5 off 2mins rest. These hurt and are very easy to misjudge the pace on the first couple. I'd suggest getting used to 400's first...
By all means jog your rest period if you can.... We are an "experienced" group however most rest periods are walking.. It's all about the quality and consistency of the reps which gets the results...
Another great rep session, and possibly even more helpful for building endurance at higher speeds, are 1 mile reps.... We usually do 5 off 2mins rest. These hurt and are very easy to misjudge the pace on the first couple. I'd suggest getting used to 400's first...
We'll_live_and_die
Super Moderator
I'll go for that then. I'll just have a walk around near the finish and then run back to my start point.
Cheers for the pointers. Hopefully I'll get the times tumbling soon.
Good luck... Just be a little careful about cramming too much 'high intensity' work into a 'low' weekly mileage...
To an extent, you do need the cardio base from a steady weekly mileage, before you start putting in too much real hard effort, otherwise it can just lead to injuries... Don't be afraid to take a run easier than normal if you feel you need to.
I'll still only do two real hard sessions per week, and if I'm racing, possibly even one. And I'm knocking out over 40 miles a week.
To an extent, you do need the cardio base from a steady weekly mileage, before you start putting in too much real hard effort, otherwise it can just lead to injuries... Don't be afraid to take a run easier than normal if you feel you need to.
I'll still only do two real hard sessions per week, and if I'm racing, possibly even one. And I'm knocking out over 40 miles a week.
We'll_live_and_die
Super Moderator
@Travs 400m"ish" sprints are brutal. I did 6 as you suggested, ran to the park and a back. 5 walking breaks (approx 10 minutes) and it was still sub 6/km. I really struggled with the last couple to keep the pace up, so I can definitely see how they'll benefit me in the longer term.
I'm doing it down Bedworth Park, so it's not exactly 400m but near enough by the look of it.
I'm doing it down Bedworth Park, so it's not exactly 400m but near enough by the look of it.
covcity4life
Well-Known Member
terrible 2 mile run yesterday in rain. 24 mins so 12 mins a mile! very slow
my quads kill now. but hey first run back completed.
my quads kill now. but hey first run back completed.
Great stuff.... Yes all feels fine, then suddenly the legs go from under you...!
Looking at that graph, you hit almost 3:20/km top speed, which is 80secs per lap pace on a track.... By way of comparison, i look to complete 400m reps in 78secs or less on a good day. So perhaps you went off a little fast on each rep which is why it looked like you slowed down a little as each rep went on. But great stuff sticking the session out...
Id may be suggest slowing down a little more, and going for 8 consistent reps. Give yourself a good few days off from hard sessions though. .
We'll_live_and_die
Super Moderator
Ok when you say slowing it down, are we talking more like 4:00/km type speed? My parkrun PB is 24.26 so I guess I wouldn't gain much by going too much slower than 4?
I'll probably not do another session like this until Monday/Tuesday as it'll be parkrun Saturday.
I'm loving having a bit of purpose to my training though, so thanks for helping me out with your advice. It's really giving me a bit of confidence in what I'm doing instead of just running with no purpose.
clint van damme
Well-Known Member
while you're out running you're not annoying us so keep it up.
On a serious note, it's weird how the same exercise affects different people. A short run would never affect my quads but it doesn't take a lot to get my calves aching.
covcity4life
Well-Known Member
first time my quads have hurt. i assume its as i started squats this week too!
lower calves for me too, i guess i dont stretch enough
clint van damme
Well-Known Member
there's your root cause!
We'll_live_and_die
Super Moderator
You must have a huge living room.
Nick
Administrator
I can’t really comment on the exact pace... but I’d recommend starting the first rep slower rather than faster... you can always make the decision to speed up on the next one... but if you start too fast and have to slow down, it’s going to get incredibly hard as the reps go on... as you found to an extent...
Ideally needs to be a pace that you can hold for the whole rep, and then repeat each rep without the reps getting slower... yes I’d try to keep on the faster side of 4:00/km if you can...3:45/km may be achievable...?
I’m doing 400mtr reps as I say, usually around 78secs which is 3:15/km pace.... although we are generally doing 12 or 16 reps with perhaps 90secs rest. So 3:20/km is probably a little ambitious for you to be able to maintain at this stage...
We'll_live_and_die
Super Moderator
11k done tonight. Nice steady 6.20/km average. Quite enjoyed it to be fair.
Our 400mtr rep session was slightly different tonight... 12 reps, split into 4 sets of 3 reps, each set getting approx 5 seconds quicker.... only 20 seconds rest after, rep 1, 40secs after rep 2, and 60secs after rep 3....
The aim being that by the 4th and final set of reps you are up to your “normal” rep pace... therefore the first three reps should be approx 15secs slower than your usual pace....
My target was 95secs for the first set, then 88, then 83, then 78....
My times were. 95, 95, 88(!?), 86, 86, 86, 84, 83, 83, 80, 83, 82....
The 20 second rest periods were over in a blink, barely enough time to wipe the sweat out my eyes and check the watch.... the 40 secs rests were little better, the 60secs rests were nice but then having to speed up, and straight back down to 20secs rest again, made it one of the toughest sessions I’ve ever done.... by the final three I just couldn’t get down to usual pace....
In short, 400mtr rep sessions are tough enough, keep them simple unless you really know what you’re doing... I am wrecked tonight!
The aim being that by the 4th and final set of reps you are up to your “normal” rep pace... therefore the first three reps should be approx 15secs slower than your usual pace....
My target was 95secs for the first set, then 88, then 83, then 78....
My times were. 95, 95, 88(!?), 86, 86, 86, 84, 83, 83, 80, 83, 82....
The 20 second rest periods were over in a blink, barely enough time to wipe the sweat out my eyes and check the watch.... the 40 secs rests were little better, the 60secs rests were nice but then having to speed up, and straight back down to 20secs rest again, made it one of the toughest sessions I’ve ever done.... by the final three I just couldn’t get down to usual pace....
In short, 400mtr rep sessions are tough enough, keep them simple unless you really know what you’re doing... I am wrecked tonight!
covcity4life
Well-Known Member
2.3 miles in 26 mins yesterday. still slow but to be expected when weight squats day before every run
will get to 3m then focus only on speeding it up
will get to 3m then focus only on speeding it up