Ajax (13 Viewers)

[Mucca Mad Boys]

95th minute winner against a team on a fraction of the budget and having trailed for 99% of the tie

Must be so proud

Like Guardiola patting himself on the back

No one can take away Ajax’s achievements from them. They beat Real Madrid, who were fighting for a 4th consecutive CL win and Italy’s best, Juventus who have possibly the greatest CL player in Christiano Ronaldo. You can’t really brush off Spurs’ own achievement in its own right. At 2-0, I had written them off.

We have two all-England European finals and it does look like we’re on the verge of another period of English dominance in Europe.

 

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[Mucca Mad Boys]

No, it has 5 or 6 teams that are strong and significantly ahead of the others. Otherwise teams are staying in the league on short of 35 points. It's pathetic and uncompetitive.

Which of the other top leagues can even boast 6 good teams?

La Liga? Nope. Serie A? Nope. Bundesliga? Nope. Ligue 1? Nope. All are even less competitive than the Premiership.

 

[fernandopartridge]

Which of the other top leagues can even boast 6 good teams?

La Liga? Nope. Serie A? Nope. Bundesliga? Nope. Ligue 1? Nope. All are even less competitive than the Premiership.

Just because they're all uncompetitive it doesn't mean the PL is worthy of any credit.
What's essentially happened has that a European Super League has been implemented by stealth. Teams continually qualifying each year for the so called Champions League despite not winning anything, those teams are basically avoiding relegation from the super league every session.
The existence of the CL further concentrates both monetary and non monetary resource with this elite group, meaning all European leagues are increasingly less competitive. Look at the gap between the top and the rest, it's disgraceful.

 

[Liquid Gold]

Juve don't. Juve turnover 2018 €504m / £433m. Spurs turnover £388m. They made a loss on that.

They also spent over £100m on a single player last year where spurs have spent a net £7m or something in the last 4 years. They also have a salary cap of £100,000. Juve made a loss because they spent in the squad unlike spurs.

Again, I’m no fan of the champions league or the premier league but to say it’s no achievement because it’s only Ajax is a shit argument after they turned over two much bigger clubs.

 

[fernandopartridge]

They also spent over £100m on a single player last year where spurs have spent a net £7m or something in the last 4 years. They also have a salary cap of £100,000. Juve made a loss because they spent in the squad unlike spurs.

Again, I’m no fan of the champions league or the premier league but to say it’s no achievement because it’s only Ajax is a shit argument after they turned over two much bigger clubs.

Spurs have just spend £1bn on a stadium mate.

 

[Liquid Gold]

Spurs have just spend £1bn on a stadium mate.

Yeah, I'm not saying they're living in poverty. I am saying that teams with a greater playing budget than them lost to this team that they apparently shouldn't take any pride in beating.

When we beat Exeter in playoff final last year were you ecstatic with the rest of us or did you just sit back thinking we shouldn't take any pride in beating a smaller team?

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

I'm no fan of the premier league but Ajax beat Juve and Real who both have a significantly higher budget than Spurs.

Yeah, I'm not saying they're living in poverty. I am saying that teams with a greater playing budget than them lost to this team that they apparently shouldn't take any pride in beating.

When we beat Exeter in playoff final last year were you ecstatic with the rest of us or did you just sit back thinking we shouldn't take any pride in beating a smaller team?

I wasn’t disrespecting Ajax at all, in fact I started the thread to praise them. But to wax lyrical about Spurs scraping past with such a huge financial advantage is just disingenuous. To go on about the PL being the best when it has become the emblem of plastic corporate BS isn’t much better either.

For me, the Bundesliga offers far better atmospheres at affordable prices for fans and an attempt to not prise the game from its roots. Just because BT and Sky have given the PL obscene sums doesn’t make the end product any more appealing.

 

[Liquid Gold]

I wasn’t disrespecting Ajax at all, in fact I started the thread to praise them. But to wax lyrical about Spurs scraping past with such a huge financial advantage is just disingenuous. To go on about the PL being the best when it has become the emblem of plastic corporate BS isn’t much better either.

For me, the Bundesliga offers far better atmospheres at affordable prices for fans and an attempt to not prise the game from its roots. Just because BT and Sky have given the PL obscene sums doesn’t make the end product any more appealing.

I don't like the PL. I haven't waxed lyrical about Spurs. I agree the budesliga is better.

Still not going to let my bias get in the way of the notion that Spurs did something Real Madrid and Juventus couldn't.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

I don't like the PL. I haven't waxed lyrical about Spurs. I agree the budesliga is better.

Still not going to let my bias get in the way of the notion that Spurs did something Real Madrid and Juventus couldn't.

Think you have missed the point.

 

[Gazolba]

It's great for cleaning the bath tub:

 

[Tommo1993]

Better atmospheres doesn’t make the footballing standard any better. Hate how much money is in EPL, but it certainly is the best quality of football in the world.

 

[Travs]

Which of the other top leagues can even boast 6 good teams?

La Liga? Nope. Serie A? Nope. Bundesliga? Nope. Ligue 1? Nope. All are even less competitive than the Premiership.

Serie A is having a monstrous battle for the champions league places, with down to 8th being in contention. Granted Juventus are way ahead this year, but last season it was the only of the elite leagues to even resemble a title race, right up until the final few games.

Germany having a similar title race to England, and Eintracht Frankfurt who took Chelsea to penalties, are currently in 6th, admittedly with a game in hand.

To say the quality is worse in these leagues is plain ignorance.... Atalanta (who this year have a foot in the champions league) deservedly hammered Everton 5-0 at Goodison last season... I remember the co-commentator exclaiming how this was a disgrace as Atalanta were “only” 17th in Serie A at the time.... Everton were around 15th at the time but that didn’t get mentioned.... nor the fact that Atalanta has played Juve, Napoli and Roma in their first 4 or 5 matches...

Beyond the top 6 the quality in the premiership is questionable, and a lot of the teams in the mid to lower reaches would get their arses handed to them by equivalent teams in Germany, Italy and arguably Spain and France.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

Serie A is having a monstrous battle for the champions league places, with down to 8th being in contention. Granted Juventus are way ahead this year, but last season it was the only of the elite leagues to even resemble a title race, right up until the final few games.

Germany having a similar title race to England, and Eintracht Frankfurt who took Chelsea to penalties, are currently in 6th, admittedly with a game in hand.

To say the quality is worse in these leagues is plain ignorance.... Atalanta (who this year have a foot in the champions league) deservedly hammered Everton 5-0 at Goodison last season... I remember the co-commentator exclaiming how this was a disgrace as Atalanta were “only” 17th in Serie A at the time.... Everton were around 15th at the time but that didn’t get mentioned.... nor the fact that Atalanta has played Juve, Napoli and Roma in their first 4 or 5 matches...

Beyond the top 6 the quality in the premiership is questionable, and a lot of the teams in the mid to lower reaches would get their arses handed to them by equivalent teams in Germany, Italy and arguably Spain and France.

Yet, 4 English teams occupy all final places?

We had 5 teams in Europe, all made it to the KO phases too. 1st to 6th in our top league would probably be comfortably in the top 3 of any European league with the exception of La Liga, who have 3 very, very strong teams at the minute.

Having spoken to my European friends, they concede the English leagues are better than their European counterparts, especially in the lower tiers.

The reason is probably down to the fact that Premiership teams get crazy amounts of TV money so their spending power outstrips their European counterparts massively. Case and point is Bournemouth spending £20m on Solanke...

 

[Travs]

It’s small margins though... and after all they’re cup competitions... but for the width of a post and a howling miss in the first leg, Barcelona and Ajax could easily be two sides in the final.

Prime example is England at the last World Cup.... Colombia ahead in the shoot-out... had that one not struck the bar they’d have probably gone through... our campaign would have been labelled as a disaster, Southgate n doubt would have been sacked (as demanded by our press)..... but they hit the bar, we went through, and look at us now.... but for the width of a crossbar...

No doubt the English league is up there as one of the strongest leagues, I don’t think anybody is saying it isn’t.... but it bloody well should be given the money and advantages thrown at it.... why can a team that finishes 4th in England (or Italy, Spain, Germany) go straight into then”champions league”..... yet teams who finish 2nd (and sometimes even champions) in equally historic footballing countries, such as Poland, Czech Republic, Hungary, the Yugoslavian nations, have to qualify....? That’s nothing to do with football and everything to do with FIFA/UEFA manipulating the leagues and qualifying process to get ever closer to their European Super League...

Someone on here wrote that European football is in a fantastic state (covcityforlife?) and I heard the same from an “expert” on the radio this afternoon.... is it buggery, it’s a shambles...

 

[Covstu]

It’s small margins though... and after all they’re cup competitions... but for the width of a post and a howling miss in the first leg, Barcelona and Ajax could easily be two sides in the final.

Prime example is England at the last World Cup.... Colombia ahead in the shoot-out... had that one not struck the bar they’d have probably gone through... our campaign would have been labelled as a disaster, Southgate n doubt would have been sacked (as demanded by our press)..... but they hit the bar, we went through, and look at us now.... but for the width of a crossbar...

No doubt the English league is up there as one of the strongest leagues, I don’t think anybody is saying it isn’t.... but it bloody well should be given the money and advantages thrown at it.... why can a team that finishes 4th in England (or Italy, Spain, Germany) go straight into then”champions league”..... yet teams who finish 2nd (and sometimes even champions) in equally historic footballing countries, such as Poland, Czech Republic, Hungary, the Yugoslavian nations, have to qualify....? That’s nothing to do with football and everything to do with FIFA/UEFA manipulating the leagues and qualifying process to get ever closer to their European Super League...

Someone on here wrote that European football is in a fantastic state (covcityforlife?) and I heard the same from an “expert” on the radio this afternoon.... is it buggery, it’s a shambles...

But football and sport in general is about fine margins. An inch and Man City would have been playing Ajax but that’s life.
The CL is a spectacle and they want the best to play each other based on that country’s previous successes. Whilst I t shouldn’t be called the champions league because that strictly isn’t factually correct does it really matter? Look at the euro championships, allowing a shitload more teams in to qualify just resulted in more dull games which people were less interested in watching. If they do this to the CL as planned it will take the piss and a breakaway league might be inevitable

 

[Travs]

But there was nothing wrong with the European format before the champions league.... the European Cup was the top competition for the true champions.... the UEFA Cup was a fantastically tough competition and could be argued to be as tough, if not tougher, than the European Cup. The ECWC could throw up anything....

UEFA saw the potential to make a shed-load of money and it’s now changed beyond all recognition, and the process is irreversible... There were always “strong” and “weak” leagues, but nothing like the inequality we have now... we effectively already have a European super league and the chances of any other leagues or teams becoming strong are slim to nothing.

The above is slightly off the original point re English teams being strong... on that point, I’m still sticking to my opinion that the top end of the premier league is certainly as strong as anywhere, but the rest of the premier league is sadly lacking in comparison to the other elite leagues in Europe (Italy and Germany in particular).

 

[Covstu]

But there was nothing wrong with the European format before the champions league.... the European Cup was the top competition for the true champions.... the UEFA Cup was a fantastically tough competition and could be argued to be as tough, if not tougher, than the European Cup. The ECWC could throw up anything....

UEFA saw the potential to make a shed-load of money and it’s now changed beyond all recognition, and the process is irreversible... There were always “strong” and “weak” leagues, but nothing like the inequality we have now... we effectively already have a European super league and the chances of any other leagues or teams becoming strong are slim to nothing.

The above is slightly off the original point re English teams being strong... on that point, I’m still sticking to my opinion that the top end of the premier league is certainly as strong as anywhere, but the rest of the premier league is sadly lacking in comparison to the other elite leagues in Europe (Italy and Germany in particular).

No denying it’s all about money and they want to keep the big teams in this tournament as long as possible as it rakes in the cash, the old format had the odd shock so a Barca could be knocked out early doors, no good for the millions wanting to watch them. Football has evolved for better or worse and we have to live with that. I think Leicester proved that they could compete out of the big 4 (or 6), I think wolves and Everton could do the same with European regularity but I agree some would be out of their depth but that would be no different to these other leagues, Burnley for example clearly didn’t want to be in europa so voluntarily exited due to the pressure it put on them in the prem.

 

[Travs]

My boss at my old work was a die-hard Wolves fan... followed them home and away through all the bad years...

Asked him about his hopes for this season.... he said he doesn’t want to end up in Europe as it will be bad for them.... whilst I can understand his point, what is the point in getting to the Premier League...? If that is the wishes of their fans, they now have nothing to achieve and hope for... can’t win the cup, and can’t go any higher than 7th without “risking” ending up in Europe.... and they may well end up in Europe anyway...

 

[Grendel]

Yet, 4 English teams occupy all final places?

We had 5 teams in Europe, all made it to the KO phases too. 1st to 6th in our top league would probably be comfortably in the top 3 of any European league with the exception of La Liga, who have 3 very, very strong teams at the minute.

Having spoken to my European friends, they concede the English leagues are better than their European counterparts, especially in the lower tiers.

The reason is probably down to the fact that Premiership teams get crazy amounts of TV money so their spending power outstrips their European counterparts massively. Case and point is Bournemouth spending £20m on Solanke...

How many made it last year from England?

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Better atmospheres doesn’t make the footballing standard any better. Hate how much money is in EPL, but it certainly is the best quality of football in the world.

I wasn't really on about quality on the pitch as a measure of how good a league is. I can get season tickets at the best teams in Germany for over £100 less than one at the Ricoh. I would know that my club would have no chance of being held hostage by a hedge fund. My national side would have had one embarrassing World Cup performance in its history as opposed to many.

So TV money and oil tycoons have tipped the balance in the EPL elite's favour. Nothing to be proud of.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

My boss at my old work was a die-hard Wolves fan... followed them home and away through all the bad years...

Asked him about his hopes for this season.... he said he doesn’t want to end up in Europe as it will be bad for them.... whilst I can understand his point, what is the point in getting to the Premier League...? If that is the wishes of their fans, they now have nothing to achieve and hope for... can’t win the cup, and can’t go any higher than 7th without “risking” ending up in Europe.... and they may well end up in Europe anyway...

He should hope their Chinese mega corporation owners don't get bored

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

How many made it last year from England?

Liverpool got to the final, and a horror show from Karius cost them really. United won the Europa League in 2017. Man City were the statistically the best team in Europe last season and Liverpool could finish 2nd on 97pts this season. Crazy.

In fairness, the La Liga teams dominated the Europa League for a long time.

The Premier League has consistently been ranked the best League in Europe for a while now. Make of that what you will.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Liverpool got to the final, and a horror show from Karius cost them really. United won the Europa League in 2017. Man City were the statistically the best team in Europe last season and Liverpool could finish 2nd on 97pts this season. Crazy.

In fairness, the La Liga teams dominated the Europa League for a long time.

The Premier League has consistently been ranked the best League in Europe for a while now. Make of that what you will.

Then we had the delight of watching Burnley scrape past Aberdeen while it took penalties for Chelsea to get past Frankfurt

 

[Sick Boy]

But football and sport in general is about fine margins. An inch and Man City would have been playing Ajax but that’s life.
The CL is a spectacle and they want the best to play each other based on that country’s previous successes. Whilst I t shouldn’t be called the champions league because that strictly isn’t factually correct does it really matter? Look at the euro championships, allowing a shitload more teams in to qualify just resulted in more dull games which people were less interested in watching. If they do this to the CL as planned it will take the piss and a breakaway league might be inevitable

Based on a country’s success? In what format? I hope you don’t mean international.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

Then we had the delight of watching Burnley scrape past Aberdeen while it took penalties for Chelsea to get past Frankfurt

Yep. Who can remember the year when Fulham battered Juventus to go through in the Europa League? Or the season Middlesbrough got to the final?

We can trade exceptions to the rule all night. I’ll even give you Championship sides Birmingham and Wigan in there too!

It’s fair to say the Premiership is the best league in the world. It has its issues, but it’s struggling teams are the best off financially. Our top teams are overall better than their European counterparts, with the exception of Barcelona, Real Madrid (usually) and possibly Juventus right now.

 

[Covstu]

Based on a country’s success? In what format? I hope you don’t mean international.

Not exactly sure what the calc is fella but I would assume it would be based partly on international and domestic. England always qualify for each tournament and the domestic teams usually make it to the Knock out stages.

 

[Covstu]

My boss at my old work was a die-hard Wolves fan... followed them home and away through all the bad years...

Asked him about his hopes for this season.... he said he doesn’t want to end up in Europe as it will be bad for them.... whilst I can understand his point, what is the point in getting to the Premier League...? If that is the wishes of their fans, they now have nothing to achieve and hope for... can’t win the cup, and can’t go any higher than 7th without “risking” ending up in Europe.... and they may well end up in Europe anyway...

Don’t disagree with him to be honest but if they were there on a regular basis then that would change. I remember big Sam saying the reason he left was that the board told him they didn’t want European football. Wolves need to build a squad capable of remaining in the upper regions of the league prior to taking on Europe but it will be inevitable. The game is a commercial monster and this will only get bigger

 

[Sick Boy]

Not exactly sure what the calc is fella but I would assume it would be based partly on international and domestic. England always qualify for each tournament and the domestic teams usually make it to the Knock out stages.

I’m not sure I’d call the international team successful over the last 20 years and more, particularly compared to the likes of Spain, Italy and Germany.

 

[fernandopartridge]

Yep. Who can remember the year when Fulham battered Juventus to go through in the Europa League? Or the season Middlesbrough got to the final?

We can trade exceptions to the rule all night. I’ll even give you Championship sides Birmingham and Wigan in there too!

It’s fair to say the Premiership is the best league in the world. It has its issues, but it’s struggling teams are the best off financially. Our top teams are overall better than their European counterparts, with the exception of Barcelona, Real Madrid (usually) and possibly Juventus right now.

One swallow doesn't make a summer

 

[Grendel]

Liverpool got to the final, and a horror show from Karius cost them really. United won the Europa League in 2017. Man City were the statistically the best team in Europe last season and Liverpool could finish 2nd on 97pts this season. Crazy.

In fairness, the La Liga teams dominated the Europa League for a long time.

The Premier League has consistently been ranked the best League in Europe for a while now. Make of that what you will.

In other words despite a lot of waffle one. How many the year before that?

How can one league be ranked against another - I think you just believe any old crap people like Scudamore tell you

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

In other words despite a lot of waffle one. How many the year before that?

How can one league be ranked against another - I think you just believe any old crap people like Scudamore tell you

By that logic we can't compare the Finnish premier league to our Premiership. Which is stupid.

UEFA have their coefficients and rank leagues accorrdingly, how do you think they allocate Champions League spots? The Premiership has been in the top 2 with La Liga for pretty much the whole time I've been watching football, with the exception of Serie A dominance in the early 2000s.

 

[Travs]

Well if UEFA originated the ranking system it must be correct and fair...

 

[Grendel]

By that logic we can't compare the Finnish premier league to our Premiership. Which is stupid.

UEFA have their coefficients and rank leagues accorrdingly, how do you think they allocate Champions League spots? The Premiership has been in the top 2 with La Liga for pretty much the whole time I've been watching football, with the exception of Serie A dominance in the early 2000s.

Ah rankings and ratings - it must be true then