The Blame Game - Time for a truce (12 Viewers)

[HuckerbyDublinWhelan]

We’re all guilty of it, myself included we’ve all picked sides. Let’s try and lay the cards out and try and repair the fractured fan base.

Right I think we can all agree on the following:

1) SISU -SISU came in rightly or wrongly in 2007. They stopped the club from going into administration. However, instead of exploring revenue making ideas and infrastructure in place of what seemed a quick turnaround - money was spent on players and given to a somewhat mediocre manager. In hindsight they should have looked at reuniting club and stadium - this was difficult given the councils valuation - however as the relationship was good at the time surely - they should have been in constant discussion at least about rent reduction.

When the plan to be promoted didn’t work, the stripped back, and focussed on the rent. The rent strike happened and we Moved to Northampton - catastrophic in my eyes, has descimated and divided the fan base.

Of course following the sale of the Ricoh to wasps which they didn’t agree and started 5 years of litigation, which is their right even though the fans didn’t agree. They’ve fought, sniped and argued with the fans to a point that the relationship can not be repaired

2) Wasps - I slag them off, but until yesterday, we were just envious and jealous of them - they took advantage of a situation, and got a home on the cheap. Deep down all of us anti wasps people know that whilst they shouldn’t be here, they’ve possibly saved themselves for the short term future - we know that rental of another’s ground isn’t feasible - they knew about that at Wycombe.

Which brings me to yesterday - the complaint isn’t legal action, but they seem terrified about the EC investigation. It can’t be revoked - but how would the year have reacted if say - we as fans made the complaint and not SISU - the wheels are in motion now, and if as they say it’s all above board there are no implications for them. No need for them to stop negotiations - strange that they want indemnifying from our owners though.

3) The Council - have took their pound of flesh from the club for years - did they help us build the ground? Yes - but they’ve made sure we knew about it from before it began. £1.2 Million per year in rent for nothing but the ability to play at the stadium. But they took the loan out - it needed re-paying.

Then they sold it - out of spite? Maybe, to get a ailing business of their portfolio also maybe - but they told us ACL could function without the football club. The key point here is, if SISU leave and the club is in tact - this decision has crippled and hamstrung the club for life. If Hoffman takes over - is there a deal for 50%? One thing is for sure we don’t want to be at the mercy of another private enterprise.

Overall you can see that all the bickering we do, the “SISU sympathisers” are not wrong but neither are the “Council Rentboys” - we the fans are pawns in this game - and were letting the above win.

If we truly want a football club - we all have to recognise the above and move forward.

As cringe as this next line is going to be - we need to stick by it

“whilst we sing together, we will never lose”

So come on guys, let’s stop the fighting! Stop siding with any of the above and support Coventry City Football Club - for all the ups and downs they are our club

 

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[Sky Blue Pete]

Tottenham or Chelsea united or anyone

 

[Nick]

Same as months ago, they are all pricks in it for themselves.

The difference is, there's probably only about 2 city fans in the world (they know who they are) who will defend SISU and say they have done nothing at all wrong, ever. There's a swarm of them who do the same for other parties and sadly they are the ones going to the media and pushing PR campaigns through so that everybody knows it.

It's always been about CCFC for me, Wasps could take us over tomorrow and as long as it is still CCFC I will be getting a season ticket for next year.

 

[Irish Sky Blue]

We’re all guilty of it, myself included we’ve all picked sides. Let’s try and lay the cards out and try and repair the fractured fan base.

Right I think we can all agree on the following:

1) SISU -SISU came in rightly or wrongly in 2007. They stopped the club from going into administration. However, instead of exploring revenue making ideas and infrastructure in place of what seemed a quick turnaround - money was spent on players and given to a somewhat mediocre manager. In hindsight they should have looked at reuniting club and stadium - this was difficult given the councils valuation - however as the relationship was good at the time surely - they should have been in constant discussion at least about rent reduction.

When the plan to be promoted didn’t work, the stripped back, and focussed on the rent. The rent strike happened and we Moved to Northampton - catastrophic in my eyes, has descimated and divided the fan base.

Of course following the sale of the Ricoh to wasps which they didn’t agree and started 5 years of litigation, which is their right even though the fans didn’t agree. They’ve fought, sniped and argued with the fans to a point that the relationship can not be repaired

2) Wasps - I slag them off, but until yesterday, we were just envious and jealous of them - they took advantage of a situation, and got a home on the cheap. Deep down all of us anti wasps people know that whilst they shouldn’t be here, they’ve possibly saved themselves for the short term future - we know that rental of another’s ground isn’t feasible - they knew about that at Wycombe.

Which brings me to yesterday - the complaint isn’t legal action, but they seem terrified about the EC investigation. It can’t be revoked - but how would the year have reacted if say - we as fans made the complaint and not SISU - the wheels are in motion now, and if as they say it’s all above board there are no implications for them. No need for them to stop negotiations - strange that they want indemnifying from our owners though.

3) The Council - have took their pound of flesh from the club for years - did they help us build the ground? Yes - but they’ve made sure we knew about it from before it began. £1.2 Million per year in rent for nothing but the ability to play at the stadium. But they took the loan out - it needed re-paying.

Then they sold it - out of spite? Maybe, to get a ailing business of their portfolio also maybe - but they told us ACL could function without the football club. The key point here is, if SISU leave and the club is in tact - this decision has crippled and hamstrung the club for life. If Hoffman takes over - is there a deal for 50%? One thing is for sure we don’t want to be at the mercy of another private enterprise.

Overall you can see that all the bickering we do, the “SISU sympathisers” are not wrong but neither are the “Council Rentboys” - we the fans are pawns in this game - and were letting the above win.

If we truly want a football club - we all have to recognise the above and move forward.

As cringe as this next line is going to be - we need to stick by it

“whilst we sing together, we will never lose”

So come on guys, let’s stop the fighting! Stop siding with any of the above and support Coventry City Football Club - for all the ups and downs they are our club

I agree with everything that you say except for the point that this latest complaint isn’t legal action. At the moment it is an investigation but if it goes the way that Sisu want, it will become legal action. It means that Wasps and CCC will be involved in very costly court proceedings for which they have to prepare and make contingency plans. I don’t really care about any of that except for the inevitable fact that Wasps would use our club to get back at Sisu, force us out of the Ricoh and make Sisu pay millions to keep us on life support.
Sepalla and friends would have known that this would happen before instigating their latest action, yet they went ahead anyway.
None of this alters what you say, the message you are putting out I agree with 100%. However, If you read through posts on here many now seem to think Sisu are justified in what they are doing. In reality they are continuing to try and distress Wasps and CCC, now through the European legal system, and using our club to do it.

 

[Nick]

I agree with everything that you say except for the point that this latest complaint isn’t legal action. At the moment it is an investigation but if it goes the way that Sisu want, it will become legal action. It means that Wasps and CCC will be involved in very costly court proceedings for which they have to prepare and make contingency plans. I don’t really care about any of that except for the inevitable fact that Wasps would use our club to get back at Sisu, force us out of the Ricoh and make Sisu pay millions to keep us on life support.
Sepalla and friends would of known that this would happen before instigating their latest action, yet they went ahead anyway.
None of this alters what you say, the message you are putting out I agree with 100%. However, If you read through posts on here many now seem to think Sisu are justified in what they are doing. In reality they are continuing to try and distress Wasps and CCC, now through the European legal system, and using our club to do it.

It is only legal action if the European Commission start legal action. They will only be involved and money will only be paid if there is a fault to be found. That won't be the fault of CCFC, that will be the fault of the Council and Wasps.

It's as if you think that gives them a pass to use it against CCFC? It's as if you have completely missed CCFC being stuck in the middle for god knows how many years?

 

[HuckerbyDublinWhelan]

I agree with everything that you say except for the point that this latest complaint isn’t legal action. At the moment it is an investigation but if it goes the way that Sisu want, it will become legal action. It means that Wasps and CCC will be involved in very costly court proceedings for which they have to prepare and make contingency plans. I don’t really care about any of that except for the inevitable fact that Wasps would use our club to get back at Sisu, force us out of the Ricoh and make Sisu pay millions to keep us on life support.
Sepalla and friends would of known that this would happen before instigating their latest action, yet they went ahead anyway.
None of this alters what you say, the message you are putting out I agree with 100%. If you read through posts on here many now seem to think Sisu are justified in what they are doing. In reality they are continuing to try and distress Wasps and CCC, now through the European legal system, and using our club to do it.

Ok, I see the point about legals. SISU, will know the consequences.

If it goes the way that SISU want, I’d be intrigued to see where SISU Go then, regarding getting out of the undertaking.

But the flip side is - if it is tax payer money, shouldn’t The council be made to recoup tax payer money? If it was SISU who were beneficiaries - would you want the money claimed back?

All in all I grudgingly think that would be unfair on Wasps - given that they were offered a favourable deal and they took it.

I’m trying to start looking at things from all sides

 

[higgs]

Same as months ago, they are all pricks in it for themselves.

The difference is, there's probably only about 2 city fans in the world (they know who they are) who will defend SISU and say they have done nothing at all wrong, ever. There's a swarm of them who do the same for other parties and sadly they are the ones going to the media and pushing PR campaigns through so that everybody knows it.

It's always been about CCFC for me, Wasps could take us over tomorrow and as long as it is still CCFC I will be getting a season ticket for next year.

Can we still play in sky blue?

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

 

[HuckerbyDublinWhelan]

Can we still play in sky blue?

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

And change the seat colour to black and gold to be fair?

Might help our players see each other better

 

[Nick]

Ok, I see the point about legals. SISU, will know the consequences.

If it goes the way that SISU want, I’d be intrigued to see where SISU Go then, regarding getting out of the undertaking.

But the flip side is - if it is tax payer money, shouldn’t The council be made to recoup tax payer money? If it was SISU who were beneficiaries - would you want the money claimed back?

All in all I grudgingly think that would be unfair on Wasps - given that they were offered a favourable deal and they took it.

I’m trying to start looking at things from all sides

Why would it be unfair on Wasps if it was found the deal wasn't above board? Do people think Wasps are some naive people who didn't know anything before they moved?

The council and ACL were talking about buying Wasps in 2012, the now Wasps owner was discussing it with people in 2012 before he even bought them. It's not as if it wasn't all planned.

 

[HuckerbyDublinWhelan]

Why would it be unfair on Wasps if it was found the deal wasn't above board?

I’m going to take a house analogy (I know we disagree with them), if you were offered a 250k house for 50k would you take it?

That’s the sellers fault not the buyers

Me personally would love it to happen, but like I said I’m trying to create a common ground here between all fans.

We’ve got to stop the infighting

 

[Nick]

I’m going to take a house analogy (I know we disagree with them), if you were offered a 250k house for 50k would you take it?

That’s the sellers fault not the buyers

I'd ask why it was £50k and have everything checked over twice to be sure to try and find out what the catch was.

Especially if it was well known that the house was in the middle of a well publicised legal dispute at the time with people who are well known for legal disputes.

 

[torchomatic]

I agree with everything that you say except for the point that this latest complaint isn’t legal action. At the moment it is an investigation but if it goes the way that Sisu want, it will become legal action. It means that Wasps and CCC will be involved in very costly court proceedings for which they have to prepare and make contingency plans. I don’t really care about any of that except for the inevitable fact that Wasps would use our club to get back at Sisu, force us out of the Ricoh and make Sisu pay millions to keep us on life support.
Sepalla and friends would of known that this would happen before instigating their latest action, yet they went ahead anyway.
None of this alters what you say, the message you are putting out I agree with 100%. However, If you read through posts on here many now seem to think Sisu are justified in what they are doing. In reality they are continuing to try and distress Wasps and CCC, now through the European legal system, and using our club to do it.

It only becomes legal action if the Commission find there is a something to answer for. If that is the case then I'm sure you, as a law abiding fellow, would be happy for legal action to commence. After all we all want the truth, don't we?

 

[Irish Sky Blue]

It is only legal action if the European Commission start legal action. They will only be involved and money will only be paid if there is a fault to be found. That won't be the fault of CCFC, that will be the fault of the Council and Wasps.

It's as if you think that gives them a pass to use it against CCFC? It's as if you have completely missed CCFC being stuck in the middle for god knows how many years?

It’s exactly what I have just said. CCFC are stuck in the middle. I’m not justifying what Wasps have done. What I am saying is that Sisu would have known the consequences for the club by instigating this complaint, they would have known that Wasps would kick us out of the Ricoh. To say it will only cost Wasps and CCC money if fault is found is wrong. It will cost them money to defend the action to see if they were at faullt.
I have made my point. Agree or disagree. Any further argument goes against the sentiment with which this thread was made.
Wasps, CCC, Sisu are all culpable as far as I am concerned. They could have sorted out their petty despicable squabbles without involving our club. Instead we are the pawn that they continually use to get at each other. Shame on them all.

 

[Nick]

It’s exactly what I have just said. CCFC are stuck in the middle. I’m not justifying what Wasps have done. What I am saying is that Sisu would have known the consequences for the club by instigating this complaint, they would have known that Wasps would kick us out of the Ricoh. To say it will only cost Wasps and CCC money if fault is found is wrong. It will cost them money to defend the action to see if they were at faullt.
I have made my point. Agree or disagree. Any further argument goes against the sentiment with which this thread was made.
Wasps, CCC, Sisu are all culpable as far as I am concerned. They could have sorted out their petty despicable squabbles without involving our club. Instead we are the pawn that they continually use to get at each other. Shame on them all.

No, that is wrong. The European Commission will only take it on if they think something has been done wrong.

Of course they are all in the wrong but the strange will to justify Wasps kicking CCFC out is a little bit strange.

 

[HuckerbyDublinWhelan]

I'd ask why it was £50k and have everything checked over twice to be sure.

Especially if it was well known that the house was in the middle of a well publicised legal dispute at the time with people who are well known for legal disputes.

As I said, I think the house buying thing is tenuous at best - they did know the legal situation when they came in.

It’s not as though wasps put a gun to the council’s head, ACL was losing value - we all know that.

I’ll appeal to the other side and as I said above, if it was SISU and not wasps - would the fans want the tax payer remunerated? I want someone who has verged into supporting wasps current stance to answer that

 

[MalcSB]

I’m going to take a house analogy (I know we disagree with them), if you were offered a 250k house for 50k would you take it?

That’s the sellers fault not the buyers

Me personally would love it to happen, but like I said I’m trying to create a common ground here between all fans.

We’ve got to stop the infighting

If you accepted such an offer, you could be pursued for evading stamp duty so it wouldn’t be above board.

 

[Nick]

As I said, I think the house buying thing is tenuous at best - they did know the legal situation when they came in.

It’s not as though wasps put a gun to the council’s head, ACL was losing value - we all know that.

I’ll appeal to the other side and as I said above, if it was SISU and not wasps - would the fans want the tax payer remunerated? I want someone who has verged into supporting wasps current stance to answer that

Wasps knew full well what they were getting into, they all do. It was planned for years.

 

[HuckerbyDublinWhelan]

If you accepted such an offer, you could be pursued for evading stamp duty so it wouldn’t be above board.

Yeah the house buying/renting analogy in our situation is scratchy.

But given that it was tenantless at the time, and being ran into the ground - is it possible that the value did drop?

I know this is going to be a can of worms (arena wasn’t auctioned - hence the EC complaint)

Take a 250k house at auction, it’s a bit run down, and goes for 50k - that would be fine right?

Again bad analogy.... but it’s the only similar thing I can compare to

 

[Irish Sky Blue]

It only becomes legal action if the Commission find there is a something to answer for. If that is the case then I'm sure you, as a law abiding fellow, would be happy for legal action to commence. After all we all want the truth, don't we?

What I want is the best for CCFC. For the endless years of legal wrangling to continue is obviously going to harm CCFC. I’m sure that you as a loyal City fan want only what’s best for the club? It’s almost as if you would sacrifice this to see that Wasps and CCC get an expensive bloody nose. Surely not?

 

[HuckerbyDublinWhelan]

What I want is the best for CCFC. For the endless years of legal wrangling to continue is obviously going to harm CCFC. I’m sure that you as a loyal City fan want only what’s best for the club? It’s almost as if you would sacrifice this to see that Wasps and CCC get an expensive bloody nose. Surely not?

This is the problem with a lot of the fans - some would see the above, whilst some extreme on the other side would see CCFC die to give SISU a bloody nose.

All in all - I can guarantee that if it all goes to pot, SISU will ride off into the sunset and in Coventry - nothing will happen to the council - it’s a labour stronghold.

CCFC and Possibly Wasps are the casualties in this game

 

[Nick]

Yeah the house buying/renting analogy in our situation is scratchy.

But given that it was tenantless at the time, and being ran into the ground - is it possible that the value did drop?

I know this is going to be a can of worms (arena wasn’t auctioned - hence the EC complaint)

Take a 250k house at auction, it’s a bit run down, and goes for 50k - that would be fine right?

Again bad analogy.... but it’s the only similar thing I can compare to

It wasn't empty when it was sold and when the deal was approved either.

How does that make Wasps blameless?

 

[Nick]

What I want is the best for CCFC. For the endless years of legal wrangling to continue is obviously going to harm CCFC. I’m sure that you as a loyal City fan want only what’s best for the club? It’s almost as if you would sacrifice this to see that Wasps and CCC get an expensive bloody nose. Surely not?

It's almost as if you are happy to see CCFC held hostage for years like they were pre SISU, during and as they would be after at the mercy of everybody else?

It was said at the time how much the sale to Wasps would damage us and still be damaging us years after SISU have gone. Not many really took notice of it then because of the "conditions" the council were putting about as well as the expensive PR job that was done.

 

[HuckerbyDublinWhelan]

It wasn't empty when it was sold and when the deal was approved either.

How does that make Wasps blameless?

Valid point, but it’s still a deal offered and one taken.

Again I’m not sure, how culpable a buyer is in these situations, or in any transaction.

I’ve been championing the complaint, if tax payer money needs to be recovered - then surely nobody can be against it?

I struggle to see how you can force a private entity to pay it though.

On top of that - if Brexit occurs mid case - technically, Whatever’s ordered - can’t that party just tell them “not happening - no jurisdiction” I know the ECJ will allegedly keep jurisdiction up to date of Brexit - but they can’t order anything really

 

[Nick]

Again I’m not sure, how culpable a buyer is in these situations, or in any transaction.

You can buy a car for £10k and if you haven't done a HPI check you can be culpable. That's what the checks are for.

Are people just assuming Wasps didn't do any, didn't know about the legals and just thought they had a bargain and jumped in? Even though it was discussed and on the cards even before the Wasps owner actually bought Wasps?

 

[Irish Sky Blue]

No, that is wrong. The European Commission will only take it on if they think something has been done wrong.

Of course they are all in the wrong but the strange will to justify Wasps kicking CCFC out is a little bit strange.

Twisting words again. Ended badly last time.

 

[HuckerbyDublinWhelan]

You can buy a car for £10k and if you haven't done a HPI check you can be culpable. That's what the checks are for.

Are people just assuming Wasps didn't do any, didn't know about the legals and just thought they had a bargain and jumped in? Even though it was discussed and on the cards even before the Wasps owner actually bought Wasps?

Not at all, I’m sure he was quoted saying that wouldn’t effect the relationship - not sure if that was further down the line.

I Agree you can’t argue that this was a total shock to them, and given our owners history - it’s really to be expected.

 

[Nick]

Twisting words again. Ended badly last time.

No words have been twisted.

The Commission will only investigate and take it further if they think there has been wrongdoing. If they do, then is that CCFC's fault?

 

[torchomatic]

What I want is the best for CCFC. For the endless years of legal wrangling to continue is obviously going to harm CCFC. I’m sure that you as a loyal City fan want only what’s best for the club? It’s almost as if you would sacrifice this to see that Wasps and CCC get an expensive bloody nose. Surely not?

No, I only want what is best for CCFC. Don't care about SISU, Wasps or the Council. If Wasps and the Council - and SISU for that matter - suffer, I don't care, as long as my football team are OK.

 

[HuckerbyDublinWhelan]

@Nick @Irish Sky Blue lads, this is the type of issue that these 3 parties are causing.

Remember we’re all CCFC fans, whatever the complaint is - it’s happened now.

The investigation is happening, no it’s not CCFCs fault - but it’s something Wasps are using to beat us with. Not justifying it, just saying that’s what wasps are doing.

 

[Nick]

It would be lovely if SISU went bust, Wasps went bust and any councillor involved who was found to have been up to no good and they all went bankrupt too.

 

[HuckerbyDublinWhelan]

As it goes - the council are weirdly quiet about this. It actually does affect them

 

[Nick]

@Nick @Irish Sky Blue lads, this is the type of issue that these 3 parties are causing.

Remember we’re all CCFC fans, whatever the complaint is - it’s happened now.

The investigation is happening, no it’s not CCFCs fault - but it’s something Wasps are using to beat us with. Not justifying it, just saying that’s what wasps are doing.

I am just talking with basic facts.

People need to open their eyes to things, I am not sure how long I have been pointing it out. Wasps could beat CCFC black and blue and there would be city fans loving it because they think it is SISU taking the beating.

Why is that? That's because all of the media, all of the expensive PR have all put that into people's heads. It was only a few weeks ago the Wasps bloke was pretty much asking people to protest about SISU and the council leader was thanking our fans trust for protesting against them.

People need to start putting CCFC first.

 

[HuckerbyDublinWhelan]

I am just talking with basic facts.

People need to open their eyes to things, I am not sure how long I have been pointing it out. Wasps could beat CCFC black and blue and there would be city fans loving it because they think it is SISU taking the beating.

Why is that? That's because all of the media, all of the expensive PR have all put that into people's heads. It was only a few weeks ago the Wasps bloke was pretty much asking people to protest about SISU and the council leader was thanking our fans trust for protesting against them.

People need to start putting CCFC first.

Is there any chance you (as head of this forum) get any kind of reconciliatory dialogue with the trust.

Trust (no pun intended) is at an all time low with them. Is there any chance you could get them on here? In a safe moderated sub-forum - appreciate it would be effort. But we need to understand what they’re saying/doing.

They’re the key in this - they have the logistics and clout to turn the tide. Again myself heavily included we have criticised them regularly. Can you reach out to @CJ_covblaze to see if people like Moz can come back on here without us slagging then off?

 

[Nick]

Is there any chance you (as head of this forum) get any kind of reconciliatory dialogue with the trust.

Trust (no pun intended) is at an all time low with them. Is there any chance you could get them on here? In a safe moderated sub-forum - appreciate it would be effort. But we need to understand what they’re saying/doing.

They’re the key in this - they have the logistics and clout to turn the tide. Again myself heavily included we have criticised them regularly. Can you reach out to @CJ_covblaze to see if people like Moz can come back on here without us slagging then off?

More than happy to speak to the Trust. I have offered them sub forums for Q+As with sensible questions only. I have offered to help them with anything technical that I can.

They have absolutely no interest in interacting (aside from CJ).

 

[Irish Sky Blue]

No, I only want what is best for CCFC. Don't care about SISU, Wasps or the Council. If Wasps and the Council - and SISU for that matter - suffer, I don't care, as long as my football team are OK.

Exactly the same as me. I agree with you completely.