The Next Statement (28 Viewers)

[SkyBlueCRJ]

The whole act was to push blame. The way they released it and how it was pushed and panic stirred up.

It’s a window into the direction that modern sport across the board is heading - politics. Which is such a shame obviously. I don’t expect every CCFC to understand the ins and outs of this latest shitstorm. But those who can’t see that the Wasps statement is both completely contradictory in its content and a pathetic/typical PR move needs to open their eyes.

 

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[Nick]

It’s a window into the direction that modern sport across the board is heading - politics. Which is such a shame obviously. I don’t expect every CCFC to understand the ins and outs of this latest shitstorm. But those who can’t see that the Wasps statement is both completely contradictory in its content and a pathetic/typical PR move needs to open their eyes.

The thing is, you can't blame some people as it isn't their fault for thinking that.

There used to be an older fella in the gym who would discuss CCFC if he saw me as I had a shirt. All he had for his news was the Telegraph, no social media, no forums, no real discussion or in depth breakdown (like somebody on here might see from the accounts for example).

He was probably about 60 - 65, he had no reason not to believe anything else other than what the telegraph said.

 

[chiefdave]

“the ball was back in the court of CCFC’s owners”

Anybody pick up on this from wasps? What exactly can they do now that it isn't possible to withdraw the complaint. It seems as if wasps don't want us at the ricoh full stop which is a piss take

This is the question the media should be hammering Wasps with. From the position we are in now what is it they want / expect the club to do to enable talks to resume?

 

[Nick]

The bloke hasn't got the foggiest what he is talking about.

 

[SkyBlueDom26]

This is the question the media should be hammering Wasps with. From the position we are in now what is it they want / expect the club to do to enable talks to resume?

Gilbert questioning wasps :smuggrin::smuggrin::smuggrin::smuggrin:

 

[SkyBlueCRJ]

The thing is, you can't blame some people as it isn't their fault for thinking that.

There used to be an older fella in the gym who would discuss CCFC if he saw me as I had a shirt. All he had for his news was the Telegraph, no social media, no forums, no real discussion or in depth breakdown (like somebody on here might see from the accounts for example).

He was probably about 60 - 65, he had no reason not to believe anything else other than what the telegraph said.

I suppose you're right. Whilst in my opinion it’s now the clubs duty to educate its fan base regarding why we have been ‘kicked out’, how feasible is it? Expanding on your point about people solely getting their info from the CT, how likely is it that they will facilitate a PR campaign solely based on attacking Wasps’ stance? Secondly, will the fans believe it? I don’t mean to generalise but the majority of fans will believe what they want to believe or they’ll believe what they are told at face value. As your example proves - because in all fairness how can they know better if the information provided, wherever they might get it from, is either biased, incorrect or not the full picture.

Despite the huge drop in circulation, the CT still remains a vital information provider for many people within Coventry and Warwickshire. But if their recent history is anything to go by, they won’t sever ties with Wasps or CCC by posting content that states SISU aren’t the primary culprits in this scenario. So perhaps I’m wrong and attempting to educate the fan base is a pointless exercise as realistically no one is going to facilitate it (apart from statements posted on the club’s own website obviously) and at the end of the day the beliefs of a significant proportion of fans will be already be completely entrenched. All we can hope for now is the EC investigation finds something and Wasps and the CCC are proven to be the soulless twats that they are.

 

[ccfctommy]

The thing is, you can't blame some people as it isn't their fault for thinking that.

There used to be an older fella in the gym who would discuss CCFC if he saw me as I had a shirt. All he had for his news was the Telegraph, no social media, no forums, no real discussion or in depth breakdown (like somebody on here might see from the accounts for example).

He was probably about 60 - 65, he had no reason not to believe anything else other than what the telegraph said.

Apart from the gym bit. You've basically desribed my dad. He doesn't buy the telegraph no more just the daily mirror. He gets what is reported on Sky Sports News, Midlands Today and what's his friends tell him down the pub.

 

[HuckerbyDublinWhelan]

The biggest error SISU made was making an enemy out of the telegraph - the above is showing this.

Luckily with social media and freedom of information this isn’t as disastrous as thought, still detrimental though

 

[Nick]

Apart from the gym bit. You've basically desribed my dad. He doesn't buy the telegraph no more just the daily mirror. He gets what is reported on Sky Sports News, Midlands Today and what's his friends tell him down the pub.

That's the thing, they can't be expected to know the ins and outs but they are so easily to influence and mislead because they don't know anything other than it.

Especially when you get into the "pub talk" stuff.

 

[chiefdave]

£1 million for a lease extension of 240 years... that’s clearly not undervalued

Lets hope the EC don't compare it against the price for the original 50 year lease :joyful:

 

[Nick]

I suppose you're right. Whilst in my opinion it’s now the clubs duty to educate its fan base regarding why we have been ‘kicked out’, how feasible is it? Expanding your point about the people solely getting their info from the CT, how likely is it that they will facilitate a PR campaign solely based on attacking Wasps’ stance. Secondly, will the fans believe it? I don’t mean to generalise but the majority of fans will believe what they want to believe or they’ll believe what they are told at face value. As your example proves - because in all fairness how can they know better if the information provided, wherever they might get it from, is either biased, incorrect or not the full picture.

Despite the huge drop in circulation, the CT still remains a vital information provider for many people within Coventry and Warwickshire. But if their recent history is anything to go by, they won’t sever ties with Wasps or CCC by posting content that states SISU aren’t the primary culprits in this scenario. So perhaps I’m wrong and attempting to educate the fan base is a pointless exercise as realistically no one is going to facilitate it (apart from statements posted on the club’s own website obviously) and at the end of the day the beliefs of significant proportion of fans will be already be completely entrenched. All we can hope for now is the EC investigation finds something and Wasps and the CCC are proven to be the soulless twats that they are.

This is where the Trust should step in.

Granted they did a bit with the mythbusting articles but it needs to be constant with keeping fans informed.

 

[chiefdave]

The bloke hasn't got the foggiest what he is talking about.

That will be the court case SISU lost as the judge said they couldn't bundle it all in together and count it as one transaction :facepalm:

 

[jordan210]

That will be the court case SISU lost as the judge said they couldn't bundle it all in together and count it as one transaction :facepalm:

 

[Irish Sky Blue]

Maybe you can point out where I, and the vast majority of people on this thread, are wrong. Clearly you have insight the rest of us don't. I'll make it easy for you.

1) what can SISU do to halt the EC investigation as Wasps have now made this a condition to resume talks?

2) what action or statement against Wasps stance have come from the Trust since the latest development came to light?

Do you really believe that when Sisu took out this complaint that they did not understand the implications? You believe that they are justified in doing this even though it was obvious what the reaction of Wasps would be? You are quite happy with what they have done even though it increases greatly the long term risk to CCFC? You would rather see Sisu successful in court (an extremely remote possibility it seems to me based on the previous 5 or 6 years) than see CCFC survive and playing in Coventry? They knew what they were doing. It is no good now saying we can’t change things. They knew that all along.

The Trust May be ineffective but I don’t see them as the enemy of the club. Why give them a verbal thumping when there is little they can do, but you leave Seppala and friends in the clear?

 

[Nick]

Do you really believe that when Sisu took out this complaint that they did not understand the implications? You believe that they are justified in doing this even though it was obvious what the reaction of Wasps would be? You are quite happy with what they have done even though it increases greatly the long term risk to CCFC? You would rather see Sisu successful in court (an extremely remote possibility it seems to me based on the previous 5 or 6 years) than see CCFC survive and playing in Coventry? They knew what they were doing. It is no good now saying we can’t change things. They knew that all along.

The Trust May be ineffective but I don’t see them as the enemy of the club. Why give them a verbal thumping when there is little they can do, but you leave Seppala and friends in the clear?

If there are any implications it would be the European Commission against the Council wouldn't it?

 

[chiefdave]

This is where the Trust should step in.

Granted they did a bit with the mythbusting articles but it needs to be constant with keeping fans informed.

I've even sent him that article but he still insists the Telegraph is right.

We should be going to Keith Perry rather than OSB when there are any financial queries as clearly he's the expert.

 

[chiefdave]

Nobody can be that stupid. Does he seriously think in court cases the judge goes through every statement made line by line and gives an individual ruling on the validity of the statement?

 

[Nick]

Nobody can be that stupid. Does he seriously think in court cases the judge goes through every statement made line by line and gives an individual ruling on the validity of the statement?

He is way out of his depth when he starts going into things. I did ask if he can confirm if the Trust Mythbusting article was wrong - Sky Blue Trust - Fact or Fiction, Myth or Truth (Part 2) - Coventry MAD

 

[ccfcway]

The biggest error SISU made was making an enemy out of the telegraph - the above is showing this.

Luckily with social media and freedom of information this isn’t as disastrous as thought, still detrimental though

I think the biggest error they made was making an enemy out of most of the fans.

A lack of communication and engagement with over 10000 paying supporters has meant its them v the world.

 

[skybluegod]

Do you really believe that when Sisu took out this complaint that they did not understand the implications? You believe that they are justified in doing this even though it was obvious what the reaction of Wasps would be? You are quite happy with what they have done even though it increases greatly the long term risk to CCFC? You would rather see Sisu successful in court (an extremely remote possibility it seems to me based on the previous 5 or 6 years) than see CCFC survive and playing in Coventry? They knew what they were doing. It is no good now saying we can’t change things. They knew that all along.

The Trust May be ineffective but I don’t see them as the enemy of the club. Why give them a verbal thumping when there is little they can do, but you leave Seppala and friends in the clear?

How is it obvious what Wasps reaction would be? They asked for legal action against themselves to be dropped. they have a black and white agreement from Sisu for this. They got what they asked for. If there is a legal case that comes out of the complaint then it proves that there was wrong doing. this investigation has no affect on Wasps/Council as long as they have done everything by the book and so it costs them nothing other than their cooperation with any investigation.

CCFC will survive. It may be a painful couple years but we would survive.

 

[Nick]

I think the biggest error they made was making an enemy out of most of the fans.

A lack of communication and engagement with over 10000 paying supporters has meant its them v the world.

Guess an expensive PR campaign helped too

 

[Nick]

How is it obvious what Wasps reaction would be? They asked for legal action against themselves to be dropped. they have a black and white agreement from Sisu for this. They got what they asked for. If there is a legal case that comes out of the complaint then it proves that there was wrong doing. this investigation has no affect on Wasps/Council as long as they have done everything by the book and so it costs them nothing other than their cooperation with any investigation.

CCFC will survive. It may be a painful couple years but we would survive.

Exactly. They have been given it in writing the legals from SISU have stopped. (which is what they asked for)

The only chance there will be any more legals is if something is wrong with it and it will be from the Europeans off their own back.

 

[chiefdave]

Do you really believe that when Sisu took out this complaint that they did not understand the implications?

No, and nowhere have I said that.

You believe that they are justified in doing this even though it was obvious what the reaction of Wasps would be?

Why was it obvious what the reaction of Wasps would be? Wasps laid down conditions for talks and the club / SISU met them.

You are quite happy with what they have done even though it increases greatly the long term risk to CCFC?

As a CCFC fan I want the club to play in the city so obviously aren't happy with anything that jepordieses that. But as has been stated many times the club / SISU met the terms laid down by Wasps, only for them then to be changed to something that is literally impossible for the club / SISU to deliver.

As a taxpayer I firmly believe that anyone should have the right to challenge the use of taxpayer money and should be allowed to make use of the full process for that. I am not comfortable with third parties, who have potentially benefitted from any wrongdoing, essentially using blackmail to prevent that process being completed.

You would rather see Sisu successful in court (an extremely remote possibility it seems to me based on the previous 5 or 6 years) than see CCFC survive and playing in Coventry?

Again something you have completely made up that you won't find any posts to back up. Although to be fair I will be impressed if SISU manage to be successful in court when this isn't a court case and they aren't the claimant.

The Trust May be ineffective but I don’t see them as the enemy of the club. Why give them a verbal thumping when there is little they can do, but you leave Seppala and friends in the clear?

Once again something you have made up, nobody is leaving Seppala in the clear. As always when there is anything against SISU everyone agrees and the thread dies. For some bizarre reason when there is anything against the council and Wasps there is people trying desperately to defend them.

 

[SkyBlueCRJ]

Do you really believe that when Sisu took out this complaint that they did not understand the implications? You believe that they are justified in doing this even though it was obvious what the reaction of Wasps would be? You are quite happy with what they have done even though it increases greatly the long term risk to CCFC? You would rather see Sisu successful in court (an extremely remote possibility it seems to me based on the previous 5 or 6 years) than see CCFC survive and playing in Coventry? They knew what they were doing. It is no good now saying we can’t change things. They knew that all along.

The Trust May be ineffective but I don’t see them as the enemy of the club. Why give them a verbal thumping when there is little they can do, but you leave Seppala and friends in the clear?

Your post confuses me. I’ll bullet point otherwise I’ll waffle.

1. The complaint was made in Feb long before discussions were held. During which time it was looking unlikely we’d be at the Ricoh next season due to Wasps’ stance
2. Yes they are justified as it is their right to make the complaint. The action isn’t even against Wasps it’s against CCC
3. No one is happy that’s a ridiculous statement to make. If we knew this is what it’d lead to we’d all rather SISU hadn’t made the complaint.
4. SISU being successful in court is the only likely scenario I can see SISU selling up and leaving so yes I want them to be successful in court. Similarly I believe they have a case and I want Wasps and CCC to be held accountable for contributing to our demise.
5. Yes they knew what they were doing but I reiterate it’s not legal action. Why are Wasps trying to make out like it is? Why were they requesting indemnity in the stadium negotiations? What are they expecting the EC to find in their investigations? These are the questions you should be asking.
6. They didn’t know whether the EC was going to investigate or not. That’s not defending them that’s simple fact. They couldn’t predict how Wasps would react either

 

[Irish Sky Blue]

How is it obvious what Wasps reaction would be? They asked for legal action against themselves to be dropped. they have a black and white agreement from Sisu for this. They got what they asked for. If there is a legal case that comes out of the complaint then it proves that there was wrong doing. this investigation has no affect on Wasps/Council as long as they have done everything by the book and so it costs them nothing other than their cooperation with any investigation.

CCFC will survive. It may be a painful couple years but we would survive.

To defend themselves from any legal action would cost nothing? The fact that the complaint may lead to legal action that would cost them would probably have indicated how Wasps were likely to react.

 

[Nick]

To defend themselves from any legal action would cost nothing? The fact that the complaint may lead to legal action that would cost them would probably have indicated how Wasps were likely to react.

You have been told this multiple times.

It will only be legals against the council IF there looks to be something wrong which is when they would begin to investigate.

The COUNCIL would then need to defend as it is them who would be investigated.

 

[chiefdave]

To defend themselves from any legal action would cost nothing?

If the EC find no case to answer it won't progress. There will be no cost to Wasps and no implications for Wasps. If the EC find their is a case to answer it will be for the council to defend not Wasps. If wrongdoing is found surely every taxpayer would support the recovery of money owed to the taxpayer. If that involves a financial hit on Wasps they so be it. They were aware of the situation when buying the stadium and should have sought indemnification from the council if they were concerned.

 

[skybluegod]

You have been told this multiple times.

It will only be legals against the council IF there looks to be something wrong which is when they would begin to investigate.

The COUNCIL would then need to defend as it is them who would be investigated.

Like talking to a brick wall.

 

[Irish Sky Blue]

No, and nowhere have I said that.

Why was it obvious what the reaction of Wasps would be? Wasps laid down conditions for talks and the club / SISU met them.

As a CCFC fan I want the club to play in the city so obviously aren't happy with anything that jepordieses that. But as has been stated many times the club / SISU met the terms laid down by Wasps, only for them then to be changed to something that is literally impossible for the club / SISU to deliver.

As a taxpayer I firmly believe that anyone should have the right to challenge the use of taxpayer money and should be allowed to make use of the full process for that. I am not comfortable with third parties, who have potentially benefitted from any wrongdoing, essentially using blackmail to prevent that process being completed.

Again something you have completely made up that you won't find any posts to back up. Although to be fair I will be impressed if SISU manage to be successful in court when this isn't a court case and they aren't the claimant.

Once again something you have made up, nobody is leaving Seppala in the clear. As always when there is anything against SISU everyone agrees and the thread dies. For some bizarre reason when there is anything against the council and Wasps there is people trying desperately to defend them.

You know and I know that if the commission gives the nod that a case needs to be answered it will cost Wasps money to defend it whether they are guilty or not. It will tie them and CCC up in legal action for years to come. Sisu knew exactly what Wasps reaction to this would be or are you saying they are that naive?

I am not bothered about the cost to Wasps or even to CCC. They are reaping the rewards for what they have done.. It is the implications of what will happen to my club that bothers me.
You seem to be saying that by raising this complaint Sisu have done no wrong, could not have seen the implications for the club and are indeed an innocent party. I completely disagree and reiterate that they knew exactly what they were doing and have ther3fore shown a complete disregard to the well-being of the club.

The fact remains that if Sisu has not made this complaint the likelihood is that a deal for us to stay at the Ricoh would have been reached. You seem happy to disregard this and lay no blame at Sisu’s door. Is this wrong?

Knowing what you know now you still lay no blame for the break down in talks at Sisu’s door?

 

[Nick]

You know and I know that if the commission gives the nod that a case needs to be answered it will cost Wasps money to defend it whether they are guilty or not. It will tie them and CCC up in legal action for years to come. Sisu knew exactly what Wasps reaction to this would be or are you saying they are that naive?

I am not bothered about the cost to Wasps or even to CCC. They are reaping the rewards for what they have done.. It is the implications of what will happen to my club that bothers me.
You seem to be saying that by raising this complaint Sisu have done no wrong, could not have seen the implications for the club and are indeed an innocent party. I completely disagree and reiterate that they knew exactly what they were doing and have ther3fore shown a complete disregard to the well-being of the club.

The fact remains that if Sisu has not made this complaint the likelihood is that a deal for us to stay at the Ricoh would have been reached. You seem happy to disregard this and lay no blame at Sisu’s door. Is this wrong?

Knowing what you know now you still lay no blame for the break down in talks at Sisu’s door?

It's almost as if you aren't reading what you are being told. Why?

There's a strange pattern with people who shout the most. They read selectively.

Let's make it simple.

First, the commission ONLY gives the nod if it thinks the COUNCIL did something wrong doing the deal.

If any legal action comes from it, it will be from the commission against the COUNCIL because they think it needs to be done. Otherwise there won't be any. Legals will only come around IF the council are found to be in the wrong.

Why do you refuse to take in what people are explaining to you? I don't get it? You just completely ignore things to keep weirdly go on about Wasps being in the right to kick us out.

 

[chiefdave]

You know and I know that if the commission gives the nod that a case needs to be answered it will cost Wasps money to defend it whether they are guilty or not. It will tie them and CCC up in legal action for years to come.

You don't understand what is actually happening do you? I'd suggest reading up on the process that will be followed should the EC decide the complaint warrants an investigation.

Sisu knew exactly what Wasps reaction to this would be or are you saying they are that naive?

Wasps laid out the terms they deemed acceptable for talks and a new deal. Those terms were met. Wasps then changed the terms to something it is impossible to meet. It really is as simple as that.

 

[jordan210]

The stupid thing is all the Telegraph have to do is issue a correction. Thats it. But he keeps digging

 

[Nick]

You don't understand what is actually happening do you? I'd suggest reading up on the process that will be followed should the EC decide the complaint warrants an investigation.

Wasps laid out the terms they deemed acceptable for talks and a new deal. Those terms were met. Wasps then changed the terms to something it is impossible to meet. It really is as simple as that.

He has no idea what is happening but will keep shouting about it ignoring when he is told.

It's one of the issues we have as a fanbase really, he will be there bragging about protests he does and shouting and how pitch invasions are great but has no basic understanding of things. Add to that an editor of the Telegraph who always doesn't know the basics as well as reporters who just have to copy what Gilbert says then it's a bit of a mess isn't it?

Why do people refuse to see particular things?

 

[SBAndy]

This is getting ridiculous

Fucking hell. The purchase of the business was for £6m or so (no figures to hand). They then opted to repay the borrowing that ACL had, which is in accounting terms completely unrelated to the purchase. Then extended the lease - again nothing to do with the purchase. Forgetting, of course, that they then leveraged £35m of debt against the long-lease (which - I will say over and over - was CCC’s supposed fear of selling to SISU) so using Keith’s logic, the bond holders now own the Arena.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

The debt is irrelevant it’s a charge against the business at the time of purchase - the shareholder value at the time of purchase was £5.7 million

Thanks grendel