The Next Statement (12 Viewers)
- Thread starter SkyBlueDom26
- Start date
Irish Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
I hate the fact that Wasps are in our stadium. I hate their logos, their flags, their club shop ( that used to be ours), their ticket office. I hate the fact that their games are on CWR, that their stories and reports are in the Telegraph. I look for their results and it pleases me when they lose (childish I know). I hope they go bust and take themselves back to their real fan base in the south east. Wasps should not be here. They are a franchise club every bit as bad as MK. Anyone who reads my posts knows this has always been my point of view.
However, I have to say that I find your anti Wasps posts completely one eyed and polemic. An example of this is how a few weeks ago you were posting about the Wasps stewards at City games and how they were deliberately targeting City fans by searching them. This is in essence probably true, but is in fact no different to what happens elsewhere. If you travel away to watch the City you would know that at virtually every ground we are searched before entry, maybe because of the history of pitch invasions, flares, protests etc. Stating “facts” like this to get at Wasps is as bad as someone on Facebook claiming that Sisu take all of the money out of CCFC.
The fact is that everyone of the major players is at fault. Why don’t you say this instead of trying to diminish the part Sisu play in all of this?
Sisu’s latest action has the potential to cost Wasps a fortune in legal fees, even if they are innocent of the state aid claim. Any action will cost them a fortune to defend. It was inevitable that they would respond tit for tat with Sisu. How can they get back at them? By making Sisu shell out millions to support the club outside of the city in a groundshare.
Wasps and their owner don’t care about CCFC despite their mealy mouthed words to the contrary. Why should they? We are nothing to them. However, Sisu own the club. They have a duty of care to cherish a much loved and valued community asset. Do they? No. And despite their mealy mouthed words to the contrary, they never have. The latest demonstration of this fact is that they take the very action guaranteed to ensure we have nowhere to play in our home City.
Now, thanks to you and your like minded gang on here, some now see them as the seekers of truth and justice. If Wasps have nothing to hide, why should they be bothered about the continuing legal action? Let the legal action go ahead, It may even regain tax payers money.
The reality is, it is again going to cost tax payers money to fight this action! Sisu, it seems to me and at least one of the judges in the almost never ending JR saga, are not after a just solution, what they want is to distress their opponents with legal action be that ACL, CCC or Wasps.
Now I don’t care if Sisu bring Wasps to their knees or vice-versa. What I do care about is our club. Sisu knew what they were doing, knew the likely outcome and knew it would harm, perhaps catastrophically, our club. Yet they went ahead. Not for any noble reason of truth and justice but simply to continue their mean little plan that involves the life being screwed out of CCFC in their attempt to screw the life out of Wasps.
You totally ignore all of this. It’s no good saying “Yes, Sisu are bad but......”
There is no even handedness in what you say. There are far more negative posts from you about the Trust than there are about Sisu. In reality, what are the Trust or anyone of us going to achieve against either Sisu or Wasps? Very little I would suggest (although that doesn’t mean you don’t try).
As has been mentioned endlessly on here, there is more than one party to blame for this mess.That certainly isn’t just Wasps or CCC. I don’t know what the agenda is by constantly looking at Wasps and almost seeing Sisu as the victims. It certainly isn’t serving the purpose of being in the best interests of the club, which is what everyone on here should be concerned about.
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The FL need to clarify now what is the next step for the club. Whatever is going on or no matter what is spouted on here is not important. What seems to be being overlooked due to some scrambling to find an i told you so moment is finding out purely and simply for the fans point of view is what next. Not what someone done said or stated in the past, as that will come out in the end.
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Nick
Administrator
The club are trying to push through the groundshare. Thats next.
David O'Day
Well-Known Member
covcity4life
Well-Known Member
is there no hope of talks resuming
The FL should be telling the fans whats the next step now talks seemed to have failed at this time. They backed off cancelled the meeting with the other member clubs while sounding sure a deal was going to be done. What now from them, is it back to a league meeting or is it going to agree to a move out of the city, if so how far, how long and under what terms of a return if any. This is the most important thing for fans to worry about now, as we have plenty of time to find blame, as lets face it we have plenty of that and loads of places to throw it.
robbiekeane
Well-Known Member
Can we just take a minute to review the opening paragraph on the shitty “what could happen with the EC complaint” on the telegraph site:
Come on now....that is just outrageous. Aren’t there laws about what papers can write?
Come on now....that is just outrageous. Aren’t there laws about what papers can write?
Sky Blue Pete
Well-Known Member
What was it about £8-9m
Nick
Administrator
It was about £6.5 with a 250 year lease wasn't it?
Nick
Administrator
It's because they want to spin it. Same old story!
HuckerbyDublinWhelan
Well-Known Member
Didn’t wasps take on the 14 million debt? That would be the 20 million.
If it’s undervalued - it’ll be after a EC investigation and they won’t use a local rag as evidence
If it’s undervalued - it’ll be after a EC investigation and they won’t use a local rag as evidence
Nick
Administrator
That isn't the purchase price.
HuckerbyDublinWhelan
Well-Known Member
No but the telegraph has always taken licence with semantics
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
What a thoroughly bizarre post ISB. Not sure why you've waited months to respond to a post on a different thread about stewarding, not really the priority at the moment.
Can you point to a single post where I have absolved SISU of blame? You seem to have forgotten that in the past I have been called a council lover and accused of being a council employee!
Can you explain how an EC commission investigation into CCC leaves Wasps with legal fees?
Again, something you have completely made up. Nobody has said that or thinks that.
Really? Have you been through my entire post history or is that just something you've made up?[/QUOTE]
Grendel
Well-Known Member
The debt is irrelevant it’s a charge against the business at the time of purchase - the shareholder value at the time of purchase was £5.7 million
SkyBlueCRJ
Well-Known Member
If you look at Les Reid’s brief summary on some of the ridiculous conditions set out by Wasps, it’s more than likely that any further undisclosed heads of terms dictated would’ve been impossible for the club and SISU to agree to. Yet, how Wasps spun their side of the story in their statement is shocking and completely contradictory.
The ironic thing is that even with the club gone the EC investigation remains so effectively withdrawing from negotiations on the basis of the complaint alone is ridiculous, especially when it can’t be withdrawn and that it neither directly involves them nor is classified as legal action. That coupled with requesting indemnity, well I don’t want to bang on the same drum and repeat myself but it’s strange. What do they think the EC is going to find in their investigation? Yet again moving the goalposts at the last minute. I’m pretty gutted about not playing at the Ricoh next season but I’d rather be homeless than be held to ransom by a franchise any day of the week. So, to answer your question, no there isn’t.
the rumpo kid
Well-Known Member
Anyone know how long wasps have to pay back the money raised by there bond scheme ?
Grendel
Well-Known Member
Keith I think is not an accountant - the debt is a charge to the business so it’s irrelevant and I assume the current valuation of £60 million is a valuation that considers all charges to the business
jordan210
Well-Known Member
I would guess it’s like when a club is sold for £1 plus debts. You don’t say it was sold for £x the club was sold for £1.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
Well yes the costs are a charge against the business when it’s purchased - if there is £6 million outstanding creditor bills you buy it on that basis. If there is a £2,000 a month charge against the lease a month for 50 years it’s not worth that extra value - that’s what you pay!
Nick
Administrator
He sure is, he hasn't got the foggiest about any of it. I had to correct him about something not so long ago
None of the reporters seem to really, they just copy whatever Gilbert is writing for the BBC it seems.
Liquid Gold
Well-Known Member
If you go to a bank for a mortgage and tell them you've found a house for £200k, £100k for the house and £100k money owed to your other half they'd laugh you out the building. Why are they allowed to get away with this ludicrous claim.
SkyBlueDom26
Well-Known Member
“the ball was back in the court of CCFC’s owners”
Anybody pick up on this from wasps? What exactly can they do now that it isn't possible to withdraw the complaint. It seems as if wasps don't want us at the ricoh full stop which is a piss take
Anybody pick up on this from wasps? What exactly can they do now that it isn't possible to withdraw the complaint. It seems as if wasps don't want us at the ricoh full stop which is a piss take
Irish Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
[/QUOTE]
The point you made about the stewards I answered at the time which is why I remembered it.
The complaint that Sisu have made will turn into legal action if it goes the way they want. Obviously the reason why they have done it.
Look back through your comments on this thread alone. Even handed? Proportioning blame fairly? I don’t think so. Reading your comments it would seem that after Wasps, the biggest threat to CCFC would be the Trust.
Wasps, CCC, as far as I can see, are the enemies of CCFC. Fair enough, point it out all you like. Equally point out the role are owners play, don’t give them a free pass and try to justify what they have done and are doing as if they are simply seeking justice. They have, perhaps irrevocably, damaged CCFC by their actions. This needs pointing out just as much as the actions of the other two. As far as I can see from reading your posts. You don’t do that. For example, where have you criticised Sisu for this latest action?
Colin Steins Smile
Well-Known Member
Regardless of the historical issues between the various parties ......it looks like a car crash situation for all of them.
For CCFC - if we have to relocate to a ground outside of the city, then revenues will drop significantly and our ability to compete at Div 1 level is affected, along with the potential for recruitment.
Wasps - they have serious financial issues as their business plan looks flawed. The loss of any revenue streams is not helpful. There is the potential for them to fold.
CCC - Wasps current financial situation reduces the chances of any regeneration projects around the Ricoh & they could be left with a stadium with no residents and having to pick up the maintenance charges for an empty venue.
SISU - The last chance saloon with the European Commission and if they don't determine that this was a case of state aid, then they are left with a football club with reduced revenues and potentially falling back down the football league. If SISU's case is successful, then a recharge to Wasps could be applied sending them into administration. At that point, I can't see SISU deciding to pay the rate for the stadium that doesn't contravene state aid rules.
All in all ..........depressing!
For CCFC - if we have to relocate to a ground outside of the city, then revenues will drop significantly and our ability to compete at Div 1 level is affected, along with the potential for recruitment.
Wasps - they have serious financial issues as their business plan looks flawed. The loss of any revenue streams is not helpful. There is the potential for them to fold.
CCC - Wasps current financial situation reduces the chances of any regeneration projects around the Ricoh & they could be left with a stadium with no residents and having to pick up the maintenance charges for an empty venue.
SISU - The last chance saloon with the European Commission and if they don't determine that this was a case of state aid, then they are left with a football club with reduced revenues and potentially falling back down the football league. If SISU's case is successful, then a recharge to Wasps could be applied sending them into administration. At that point, I can't see SISU deciding to pay the rate for the stadium that doesn't contravene state aid rules.
All in all ..........depressing!
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
He point blank denied the Telegraph had surpassed the story on the bail out of ACL to me earlier in the week despite there's being evidence present to the council's ethics committee. Presumably he things SISU's lawyers forged the evidence.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
Maybe you can point out where I, and the vast majority of people on this thread, are wrong. Clearly you have insight the rest of us don't. I'll make it easy for you.
1) what can SISU do to halt the EC investigation as Wasps have now made this a condition to resume talks?
2) what action or statement against Wasps stance have come from the Trust since the latest development came to light?
HuckerbyDublinWhelan
Well-Known Member
£1 million for a lease extension of 240 years... that’s clearly not undervalued
SkyBlueCRJ
Well-Known Member
It’s a tactic to push blame. Whilst SISU are owners of CCFC, in my opinion Wasps have no interest whatsoever of forming a relationship, unless SISU and the club completely abide by their terms of course.
Nick
Administrator
The whole act was to push blame. The way they released it and how it was pushed and panic stirred up.