Dan Griffin
New Member
So where are we gonna play?
Next Season-Ricoh Arena or ground share? (8 Viewers)
- Thread starter BrisbaneBronco
- Start date
Grendel
Well-Known Member
The Ricoh - another stupid thread on this non-subject.
BrisbaneBronco
Well-Known Member
The problem with this type of action is that a winding up order could be issued by the courts and that will be the end of CCFC.
IMO, neither the council or ACL would allow this to happen despite their hatred of SISU.
Kduffy there is nothing stupid about this thread. Although I have just realised there is a previous similar thread. I think your missing the point respectfully ... the rent wont go down on the ricoh ... it can't we are tied into it. You must see the income in league 1 is much lower than the championship..those low attendances can kill clubs off.. remember we make a huge losses right now and have done for 3 years.
What do you think will happen with attendances of 6 thousand.. how can the club survive on such a small income and such a massive outgoing. Hence the reason Hoffman can't waste money buying the club.
I personally do not believe the owners of the ricoh need the club there at all. It could just as easilly make even more money by transforming it to being roofed and concentrate on concerts and exhibits.. expand the hotel. A shopping centre.. in fact they could easily live with out ccfc.
I am certain we will be at the butts with extra seating like blackpool had. I also see sisus refusal to pay as a clear message to all city fans that we will not be in the Ricoh next season...think about it.... what would you do? Buy the ricoh for 70 million or just build a 25 thousand seated for 30 million. Pay off the debts and off we go with a clear slate.
Its alright thinking this thread is stupid but I think you might want to start getting your head around it. We could very easily be non existent this time next year.
What do you think will happen with attendances of 6 thousand.. how can the club survive on such a small income and such a massive outgoing. Hence the reason Hoffman can't waste money buying the club.
I personally do not believe the owners of the ricoh need the club there at all. It could just as easilly make even more money by transforming it to being roofed and concentrate on concerts and exhibits.. expand the hotel. A shopping centre.. in fact they could easily live with out ccfc.
I am certain we will be at the butts with extra seating like blackpool had. I also see sisus refusal to pay as a clear message to all city fans that we will not be in the Ricoh next season...think about it.... what would you do? Buy the ricoh for 70 million or just build a 25 thousand seated for 30 million. Pay off the debts and off we go with a clear slate.
Its alright thinking this thread is stupid but I think you might want to start getting your head around it. We could very easily be non existent this time next year.
I just can't understand why anyone would think withholding the rent could be seen as a pre requisite to negotiations over rent amounts. . I mean lets face it.. you aren't going to get anything buy simply not paying. No.
The fact is they have more than likely sent a message to everyone here that they are o
ut and do not care about the rent.
On top of all that any business looking to negotiate the rent would simply have found alternative accommodation beforehand. You don't risk your home when you have nowhere else to go.
Because of the above it is very unlikely they are withholding rent. I think they're time is over here and they know it.. they are simply taking every penny they can before Hoffman takes on all the debts.
The fact is they have more than likely sent a message to everyone here that they are o
ut and do not care about the rent.
On top of all that any business looking to negotiate the rent would simply have found alternative accommodation beforehand. You don't risk your home when you have nowhere else to go.
Because of the above it is very unlikely they are withholding rent. I think they're time is over here and they know it.. they are simply taking every penny they can before Hoffman takes on all the debts.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
The whole tenure of the thread is built on a myth - that there is an alternative ground option.
You mention the Butts. Is this a joke? It has seats for 3,000. They had a temporary stand built there before and it failed a health an safety certificate and that was only for 1,000. So that is not an option. You say gates of 6,000. Based on what? Average drops for relegated clubs is circa 15% - that would be 60%. At worst, very worst, gates will average 10,000.
Being roofed would cost the council circa £20 million so no. Shopping Centre? I would say no as then that kills of the revenue through other streams and I suspect there is an agreement with the land owners of Arena Park that such a thing cannot happen. Tescos own that land and restrict the other tenants on there over space to sell food and other competing goods.
The Arena needs us as the revenue is 15 - 20% of their total revenue and that is significant. SISU have made a clumsy attempt at negotiating the rent but it has put the issue on the table. The rent can be negotiated there is no such thing as a fixed agreement if both parties agree an amendment or more likely a deferal on a portion of the payments.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
There are no debts the clubs debts are actually loans through other parts of SISU's equity funds.
Defaulting on a payment is not a morally acceptable thing to do but of course it is an attempt to force the councils hand to agree a reduction - this is exactly why they are doing it.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
Yet on another post you said this;
They aren't paying the rent to put themselves in arealisticbargaining position for next season... I mean what clubin the 3rd division would pay 100.000 pound amonth.
Explain?
Grendel
Well-Known Member
Agreed it's about time this nonsense was put to bed. What next? Share with Coventry Sphinx perhaps? How about finding a spot on the Memorial Park and play on a Sunday.
Couldn't agree more. While we are at it can we put the how we are going to stay up shit to bed too
oldskyblue58
CCFC Finance Director
Lets be clear - ACL, the Council and the Charity have all stated publically that they want to see CCFC at the Ricoh. They do not want to see CCFC fail. However they are not about to sell any part of the control of the Ricoh to CCFC until they come up with a viable, sustainable and longterm business plan. The Ricoh has a good international reputation which reflects well on Coventry and its economy that is not just based on football. Given the state CCFC has got itself into over the last 20 years why the hell would ACL etc let CCFC take it over.
Do people really think that ACL, the council and the charity are not doing anything to help ? Do you really think that over the last 20 years or more the Council and Charity have not helped? Both have but both are bound by the rules of their organisations as to what they can do for a private company employer. Bottom line is CCFC has consistently failed to help itself. Yet its never CCFC fault its everyone elses. Like it or not this is business and CCFC have over decades been pretty poor at it.
Yes loss of income would hurt ACL but it wouldnt be terminal and there would be loss of costs too together with alternatives - what ACL are saying is they wont be held to ransom by the football club
There is no alternative venue in the City. The council are not going to give planning permission in direct competition to the Ricoh. The Butts is not capable of the site expansion that is required let alone capable of addressing the parking issues it would throw up.
I am sure there are discussions going on about how to help but i suspect there is a certain amount of mistrust. Why would anyone believe at face value anything CCFC Board or SISU say - on many occassions in the past what they have said has not been what the reality is. I would guess there is a mechanism for potentially deferring rent or its collection but ACL has to be fair to the other tenants and to the City of Coventry as a whole.
There is no alternative that is viable - for many reasons the Ricoh is the only choice
Do people really think that ACL, the council and the charity are not doing anything to help ? Do you really think that over the last 20 years or more the Council and Charity have not helped? Both have but both are bound by the rules of their organisations as to what they can do for a private company employer. Bottom line is CCFC has consistently failed to help itself. Yet its never CCFC fault its everyone elses. Like it or not this is business and CCFC have over decades been pretty poor at it.
Yes loss of income would hurt ACL but it wouldnt be terminal and there would be loss of costs too together with alternatives - what ACL are saying is they wont be held to ransom by the football club
There is no alternative venue in the City. The council are not going to give planning permission in direct competition to the Ricoh. The Butts is not capable of the site expansion that is required let alone capable of addressing the parking issues it would throw up.
I am sure there are discussions going on about how to help but i suspect there is a certain amount of mistrust. Why would anyone believe at face value anything CCFC Board or SISU say - on many occassions in the past what they have said has not been what the reality is. I would guess there is a mechanism for potentially deferring rent or its collection but ACL has to be fair to the other tenants and to the City of Coventry as a whole.
There is no alternative that is viable - for many reasons the Ricoh is the only choice
rob9872
Well-Known Member
When I first opened this thread I thought the idea ridiculous, but we shouldn't pretend that its beyond the realms that we could end up playing in another town or City.
I guess we should just be thankful that Wimbledon have already been poached for the franchise Dons in MK or I could quite easily see them having gone after us and SISU would be more than happy to sell on the status if the deal looked like the best one on the table.
I guess we should just be thankful that Wimbledon have already been poached for the franchise Dons in MK or I could quite easily see them having gone after us and SISU would be more than happy to sell on the status if the deal looked like the best one on the table.
grego_gee
New Member
Hugh Jarse
Well-Known Member
Exactly!
Who else could afford to pay a rent similar to this on a regular basis for a stadium?
I think some of us may be blinkered .. the facts are
At the very most we will have 8 thousand on the gate average 20 pounds a ticket. That's 160.000 pounds income. 20 players average 2000 pounds wage each that adds uptown 40.000 pounds a week.
In a month of 4 home games
640.000 income
160.000 wages
100.000 rent
100.000 police and security
280000 pounds profit.
So what's the problem paying this months rent.
We should be running at a huge profit the third division. So why would they need to negotiate the rent.
It all stinks and if anyone would be surprised by what sisu do .. well they need they're heads tested.
In answer to the previous posts the butts is in a prime position. Similar to highfield road interms of its position near to town centre. As for the 3000 capacity blackpool had good temporary stands .. the butts could quite easily hold 10.000 with decent temp seats. A stand up arena with atmosphere ... it will be better than the morgue we are used to.
As for members calling for threads to end.. why bother replying to them if you think they are sopathetic orbeneath your superiority of footballing knowledge.
We will see wont we.. but something tells me if you can't afford the mansion you have to downsize.
At the very most we will have 8 thousand on the gate average 20 pounds a ticket. That's 160.000 pounds income. 20 players average 2000 pounds wage each that adds uptown 40.000 pounds a week.
In a month of 4 home games
640.000 income
160.000 wages
100.000 rent
100.000 police and security
280000 pounds profit.
So what's the problem paying this months rent.
We should be running at a huge profit the third division. So why would they need to negotiate the rent.
It all stinks and if anyone would be surprised by what sisu do .. well they need they're heads tested.
In answer to the previous posts the butts is in a prime position. Similar to highfield road interms of its position near to town centre. As for the 3000 capacity blackpool had good temporary stands .. the butts could quite easily hold 10.000 with decent temp seats. A stand up arena with atmosphere ... it will be better than the morgue we are used to.
As for members calling for threads to end.. why bother replying to them if you think they are sopathetic orbeneath your superiority of footballing knowledge.
We will see wont we.. but something tells me if you can't afford the mansion you have to downsize.
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rob9872
Well-Known Member
Your calculations at 4 homes games per month are extraordinary. We are still liable for rent and wages in the off season and average only 2 home games per calendar month (2x12=24 - one cup) . £2k you say avg salary - try doubling it. £20 per ticket - most are season ticket holders mine works out at £13 per game my dad's like many of the otehr ground concessions are at approx £8 per match.
On the flip side if you think it costs us £100k per month policing then you have over estimated that by a long way and also you make no allowance for additional revenue from advertising, the club shop, tv and league money, player transfers etc etc etc ... in fact all in all I guess your're correct as some of us appear very blinkered indeed!!!!
Go_For_It_City
New Member
The key problem is very likely to be cash flow, the money recd from season tickets/TV rev is very liekly to have been spent by now
SEVENT7
New Member
either way it doesn't make very good reading.
rob9872
Well-Known Member
Well if it has then that is another case of mismanagement. There is a period every year where there is no income but rent and wages still have to be paid, so if we have again overspent the available funds then we deserve all that comes our way.
Equally it can't have come as a surprise that we are in this position as many of us expected it pre-season, so there should have been more than one budget prepared according to league status and we should have a contingency plan to ensure the pain of falling through the trap-door is minimised, although i suspect their plan is simply a fire sale.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
I take it you are not an accountant by profession.:facepalm:
TheParsonsHose
Member
Surely we need them more than they need us ? Sounds like they can survive without us and we would struggle to survive with them IMO.
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
Yes, let's just pluck next season's crowds out of the ether...and 3 temporary stands I'm fairly sure would not meet stadium requirements for League 1.
coundonskyblue
New Member
<p><p>
<p><p>&nbsp;</p></p>
<p> </p>
<p>let alone council planning requirements.</p>
</p></p>
<p><p>&nbsp;</p></p>
<p> </p>
<p>let alone council planning requirements.</p>
Perhaps our £1.2m looks a bit much compared with £111,000 at Ipswich and they charge over £30 a ticket
http://www.eadt.co.uk/news/ipswich_blues_and_council_reach_portman_road_rent_agreement_1_1206925
http://www.eadt.co.uk/news/ipswich_blues_and_council_reach_portman_road_rent_agreement_1_1206925
neilyboy67
New Member
are you sure 4000 will be too small
But that is my point... the figures are simply not out there.. we are NOT prepared so the likes of us must pluck figures.
Again the more agitated supporters here just do not seem to understand the drop in income going down into 3rd division. And players on more than 2 grand a week! In that league
. Lol
Again the more agitated supporters here just do not seem to understand the drop in income going down into 3rd division. And players on more than 2 grand a week! In that league
. Lol
georgehudson
Well-Known Member
same old, same old, we just don't know, figures, facts, all hidden, or massaged,
if a move were forced through circumstance, where is the nearest ground that would hold 10,000+ ?
if a move were forced through circumstance, where is the nearest ground that would hold 10,000+ ?
Mary_Mungo_Midge
Well-Known Member
I still think some teams might thnk it unfair advantage that your business plan seems based on the assumption that - in order to break even - all games are played at home
4 home games a month?!?
kingharvest
New Member
Download the accounts from companies house (any will do) and have a look at staff costs. Do you think we only pay the players and everyone else volunteers?
Stevec189
New Member
These two articles may help people to realise what relegation means and what is needed to get back up. First Shefield United http://swissramble.blogspot.co.uk/2...lades-rediscovering.html?utm_source=BP_recent
And then Southampton: http://swissramble.blogspot.co.uk/2012/01/southampton-saints-alive.html?utm_source=BP_recent I particularly like the line about dodging the SISU bullet!
I think things are dire and with low revenue I think it will take a miracle to get out of Div1 or stay in the Championship should that be our fate (Ihope it is but feel it won't be!).
BTW we we still be at Ricoh - maybe in the car park with jerseys for goals but we still be there! PUSB
And then Southampton: http://swissramble.blogspot.co.uk/2012/01/southampton-saints-alive.html?utm_source=BP_recent I particularly like the line about dodging the SISU bullet!
I think things are dire and with low revenue I think it will take a miracle to get out of Div1 or stay in the Championship should that be our fate (Ihope it is but feel it won't be!).
BTW we we still be at Ricoh - maybe in the car park with jerseys for goals but we still be there! PUSB