New stadium (8 Viewers)

[SkyBlueCRJ]

For me, the only viable option is somewhere around Warwick University. Perhaps in partnership with the university itself in some way. The benefits being that it would be just outside the city boundary, and crucially because the Uni and the business parks around it handle thousands of car users every day, you could argue that the road infrastructure might be sufficient with a little tweaking and a decent travel plan. On top of that, the first stage of the proposed VLR scheme (if it happens) is likely to run from Coventry Station to WU. The issue is SISU of course, and whether they have the stomach or funds to deliver it, let alone the goodwill required.

Wrong. There would be no way a stadium could be accommodated around the University due to the HS2 route and the massive housing estate that is being built near there. Traffic would be an absolute nightmare. It already doesn't possess the infrastructure to deal with the traffic that will accumulate from upcoming plans, let alone accommodate further traffic from X thousand fans coming to the area.

 

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[OffenhamSkyBlue]

Wrong. There would be no way a stadium could be accommodated around the University due to the HS2 route and the massive housing estate that is being built near there. Traffic would be an absolute nightmare. It already doesn't possess the infrastructure to deal with the traffic that will accumulate from upcoming plans, let alone accommodate further traffic from X thousand fans coming to the area.

A46 link road scheme – Warwickshire County Council

 

[Deleted member 5849]

A46 link road scheme – Warwickshire County Council

Oh that's going to make my commute so much fun while they build it. Bet they do it the same time they'll do the roundabout by TGI on the A46 too!

 

[OffenhamSkyBlue]

Yeah! Almost like the tree blocking Leamington Road in Kenilworth this morning!
It's all gone a bit quiet on this project recently, so i don't know if it is real or a pie-in-the-sky thing (like a SISU-funded stadium???)

 

[ajsccfc]

If/when they change the Stoneleigh Road A46 entrance to a roundabout my commute will be an absolute dream but while they're building it I expect an absolute nightmare

 

[SkyBlueCRJ]

A46 link road scheme – Warwickshire County Council

I've been to several meetings regarding this. You do realise it'll take a few years before this is even constructed? Even when the link roads are constructed the amount of traffic is going to be horrendous for the next decade.

 

[SkyBlueCRJ]

If/when they change the Stoneleigh Road A46 entrance to a roundabout my commute will be an absolute dream but while they're building it I expect an absolute nightmare

Exactly. With anything that's constructed there's going to be delays but even if there wasn't, in my opinion it won't fully solve the issue straight away once the new system is put in place. Up to 4500 houses being constructed and and HS2 coming directly through that area. People are deluded if they think an X thousand seated stadium could be constructed around the University in the next 3-5 years.

 

[ccfcway]

Not living in cov, I seem to remember loads of space around here, assume this wouldn't work ?

Transport links would be minimal here

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Exactly. With anything that's constructed there's going to be delays but even if there wasn't, in my opinion it won't fully solve the issue straight away once the new system is put in place. Up to 4500 houses being constructed and and HS2 coming directly through that area. People are deluded if they think an X thousand seated stadium could be constructed around the University in the next 3-5 years.

But any stadium will need transport links resolving - Falmer was fields before, after all!

The major concern is that SISU seem to want a local council to pay for all those links for the privilege of having a ground in their area. I'm certainly no expert, so do correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought that as councils get budgets cut, they actually see traffic improvements as the responsibility of the developers, and an opportunity to relieve the council of a financial burden.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Evasive but enough to make me feel positive about robins not feeling completely pissed off.

 

[hill83]

Not living in cov, I seem to remember loads of space around here, assume this wouldn't work ?

Transport links would be minimal here


View attachment 12355

Badgers Tea Room takes up all that space.

 

[SkyBlueCRJ]

But any stadium will need transport links resolving - Falmer was fields before, after all!

The major concern is that SISU seem to want a local council to pay for all those links for the privilege of having a ground in their area. I'm certainly no expert, so do correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought that as councils get budgets cut, they actually see traffic improvements as the responsibility of the developers, and an opportunity to relieve the council of a financial burden.

I know that but do you honestly think a council will let a Coventry City stadium take precedence over the construction of new homes and HS2? The councils first and foremost priority will be ensuring there are links to keep delays from these plans to a minimum. I'm no expert either but I'd guess that whoever pays for the infrastructure whether it be the council or the developer of said stadium, I'd guess even if planning was granted, that it would have to work around HS2 and the new housing estate and ensure it doesn't affect both timelines. So funding ironically isn't even the biggest issue in this scenario.

Like I said I've been to several meetings as I live locally and just sitting in those it's clear what a huge undertaking this is - and still a number of people are sceptical about how it's going to work even with the new road system in place. I reiterate I'm not an expert by any means with regards to transport links, construction, planning etc. but just from what I've been told/heard, in my opinion in the next 3-5 years, there is no way a stadium could be constructed around this area as there simply isn't the infrastructure in place to accommodate that many people, not in the short term anyway.

 

[chiefdave]

there is no way a stadium could be constructed around this area as there simply isn't the infrastructure in place to accommodate that many people, not in the short term anyway.

What are you expecting the attendances to be if there was a new stadium at Warwick Uni? The current infrastructure copes with 29,000 staff and students.

 

[chiefdave]

I don't believe for a second SISU are going to build a stadium but then I didn't believe we'd end up in Birmingham or Northampton.

As I've said many times before, going back to when they first mentioned a stadium, why not call their bluff? If everyone got behind it and pressured the council to get SISU to a point where they have no choice but to build it or admit it was all a bluff.

Look at Woodlands for example. Instead of the council stalling for 12 months why not reply and say great idea. We'll give you a 12 month option on a lease, same as we have for Wasps, so get the plans submitted. If they'd have done that when SISU first enquired by now we'd either have plans submitted and be moving forward or SISU having to explain why they haven't gone ahead.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

I know that but do you honestly think a council will let a Coventry City stadium take precedence over the construction of new homes and HS2? The councils first and foremost priority will be ensuring there are links to keep delays from these plans to a minimum. I'm no expert either but I'd guess that whoever pays for the infrastructure whether it be the council or the developer of said stadium, I'd guess even if planning was granted, that it would have to work around HS2 and the new housing estate and ensure it doesn't affect both timelines. So funding ironically isn't even the biggest issue in this scenario.

Like I said I've been to several meetings as I live locally and just sitting in those it's clear what a huge undertaking this is - and still a number of people are sceptical about how it's going to work even with the new road system in place. I reiterate I'm not an expert by any means with regards to transport links, construction, planning etc. but just from what I've been told/heard, in my opinion in the next 3-5 years, there is no way a stadium could be constructed around this area as there simply isn't the infrastructure in place to accommodate that many people, not in the short term anyway.

Well, HS2 is currently under review. I'm still not convinced it'll actually happen and, even then, it's a case of and rather than or. Could even be certain economies of scale, but that's probably a desperately optimistic hope.

The timescales aren't going to be short wherever we go, but I don't think 3 years to get something up, 5 years to complete is unreasonable (with the caveat that in 6 years our lot have drawn a generic picture!). Plus, if work actually started, more would buy into wherever we were playing, I'm sure.

 

[SkyBlueCRJ]

What are you expecting the attendances to be if there was a new stadium at Warwick Uni? The current infrastructure copes with 29,000 staff and students.

Well I assume we won't look to build a 500 seater stadium we so lets use our common sense Dave. 29000 students, plus the construction of up to 4500 houses and an HS2 route. Do you honestly believe the Warwick Uni area could also accommodate the construction of a stadium in the next 3-5 years?

Do you even commute around there because if you don't I'm not sure why you're offering comment as if you did you'd know it's already terrible.

 

[SkyBlueCRJ]

Well, HS2 is currently under review. I'm still not convinced it'll actually happen and, even then, it's a case of and rather than or. Could even be certain economies of scale, but that's probably a desperately optimistic hope.

The timescales aren't going to be short wherever we go, but I don't think 3 years to get something up, 5 years to complete is unreasonable (with the caveat that in 6 years our lot have drawn a generic picture!). Plus, if work actually started, more would buy into wherever we were playing, I'm sure.

Well it depends on the size of stadium. IF we constructed one, which I don't think we will either, I assume it would be 15-20,000 with opportunities to expand? I think Chesterfields stadium took 2 years to be built from planning being granted to final construction and that's a 10,000 seater stadium. But obviously we haven't even located a site yet so I assume it would be longer as you say.

 

[Warwickhunt]

Well I assume we won't look to build a 500 seater stadium we so lets use our common sense Dave. 29000 students, plus the construction of up to 4500 houses and an HS2 route. Do you honestly believe the Warwick Uni area could also accommodate the construction of a stadium in the next 3-5 years?

Do you even commute around there because if you don't I'm not sure why you're offering comment as if you did you'd know it's already terrible.

The council will not sort out the roads around there now let alone building houses as well! This council expects the contractors to sort out the transport issues full stop

 

[Deleted member 5849]

The council will not sort out the roads around there now let alone building houses as well! This council expects the contractors to sort out the transport issues full stop

Which if one were cynical, is where Woodlands looks like a bluff, where SISU ask the council to sort out the infrastructure, knowing full well they can't, even if they wanted to.

 

[duffer]

What we need to do is build it over a bank holiday weekend. Then by the time the council know, it's already in place.

We can then play on it for the next six years whilst it works its way through the courts.

In the meantime we'll rent it out to Cov Utd on the days we're not there, and get them to indemnify us should we finally lose the legals.

 

[chiefdave]

Well I assume we won't look to build a 500 seater stadium we so lets use our common sense Dave. 29000 students, plus the construction of up to 4500 houses and an HS2 route. Do you honestly believe the Warwick Uni area could also accommodate the construction of a stadium in the next 3-5 years?

Do you even commute around there because if you don't I'm not sure why you're offering comment as if you did you'd know it's already terrible.

Unless things have changed since I went to uni there's not a huge number of lectures going on at 3pm on a Saturday afternoon.

I do commute there, live just down the road from the uni and have to travel through that area multiple times a day. In all honesty I find it quite funny how much the locals complain as having lived all over the country its the least congested commute I've ever had!

Not saying its ideal or that it wouldn't prove to be a no go when looked in to properly but I'm not buying the idea it should be completely ruled out without the relevant experts even looking in to it.

 

[better days]

It's been discussed on here before but a new stadium is needed for the Commonwealth Games in 2022
Currently scheduled to be an upgraded Alexander Stadium but they haven't started work on it yet
There is a visit around now from the Games hierarchy to check on progress
We need a new stadium but the Alexander will be too far to satisfy most fans or the EFL
It's likely to end up a white elephant after the games
A pity we can't persuade the games organisers to build it just north of Cov instead
Then it would have an ongoing use guaranteed
It won't happen for lots of reasons though

 

[chiefdave]

It's likely to end up a white elephant after the games

Is there no plans for Birmingham City to move there afterwards? Surely they've learnt from the mess with the Olympic Stadium and lined that up.

 

[better days]

Is there no plans for Birmingham City to move there afterwards? Surely they've learnt from the mess with the Olympic Stadium and lined that up.

No
I think the plan is to increase to 50,000 from the current 12,000 or so then to reduce to 25,000 as an athletics stadium afterwards
Although I like athletics and have been to many events, apart from the big International championships crowds are small
The British champs for example are currently held at the Alexander in what is often a half empty stadium even though it only holds 12k
It's the HQ of British Athletics so they will want to stay there
I won't be surprised if they are bought out of the remainder of their 99 year lease at the Olympic stadium where they are having trouble selling tickets for their events there

 

[LevelBest]

Wasps may not be around in 12 months or in a much weaker position financially. The council do not want CCFC anywhere else but the Ricoh because they may end up with a stadium and no sports team. SISU waits and watches what happens. If they didn't get favourable terms now then in 12 months it could all be different.

 

[djr8369]

Plenty of sports teams stumble along in millions of pounds worth of debt for years. Are wasps actually likely to be in serious trouble over the next couple of years?


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[Warwickhunt]

Plenty of sports teams stumble along in millions of pounds worth of debt for years. Are wasps actually likely to be in serious trouble over the next couple of years?


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Its who you owe money too thats a problem! as you say lots of clubs bumble along with debts but invariably the main creditors are owners of the club and the debt only becomes a problem if they decide to pull the loans. In WASP case its a bond and the they are quite avoricious and demanding if there is even a hint of a problem and its like a run on a bank.

 

[djr8369]

Its who you owe money too thats a problem! as you say lots of clubs bumble along with debts but invariably the main creditors are owners of the club and the debt only becomes a problem if they decide to pull the loans. In WASP case its a bond and the they are quite avoricious and demanding if there is even a hint of a problem and its like a run on a bank.

Well fingers crossed.


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[SkyBlueCRJ]

Unless things have changed since I went to uni there's not a huge number of lectures going on at 3pm on a Saturday afternoon.

I do commute there, live just down the road from the uni and have to travel through that area multiple times a day. In all honesty I find it quite funny how much the locals complain as having lived all over the country its the least congested commute I've ever had!

Not saying its ideal or that it wouldn't prove to be a no go when looked in to properly but I'm not buying the idea it should be completely ruled out without the relevant experts even looking in to it.

The university doesn't shut down on a weekend though and there's still enough people driving through there. Plus the road that runs through the university has been reduced to 20mph - which would be problematic for obvious reasons with an increased number of cars going through there. Also, do you not think the university might have something to say about potential increases in traffic through their site - which would be a certainty even with a brand new road network in place?

I'm not saying it's the most congested or the least. I also work all over the country but if working locally and commuting through there in the mornings it's not exactly ideal and even on the weekends it's hardly quiet - and that's without 2 huge construction projects going on!

That's fair enough but the poster I originally replied to claimed it's a viable option when realistically it's not at all.

 

[oldskyblue58]

I find it hard to believe what is being said about a stadium build.

Look i would be more than happy for CCFC to have its own stadium. But I do not see how in our circumstances it stacks up financially. No one has ever explained with any degree of certainty as to why and how

All hypothetical i know but consider the following as a for instance (the principles stand even if the figures were to differ)

Assuming they find a site - cost what? £3m (ryton was reported as worth £1.5m wasnt it?)
Contribution to infra structure improvements could be? £5m (going to depend where it is but local authorities will expect a substantial contribution as i understand it)
Build costs. Well rough figures based on the costs of smaller recent stadium builds & fit indicate around £1.8m per 1000 seats excluding land and infrastructure. Stadium of 20000 ? £36m
Stadium build finance costs (interest) say £5m over period of build

So thats £49m as a rough estimate

Time to build say 5 years (as suggested by owners). Assuming we remain in L1, and in a ground share outside Coventry (which is highly possible) annual losses excluding player sales could be £4m per annum. We lost £7m in the year at Sixfields. Club losses in the build period could be £20m. Problem could be greater with promotion due to increase in wage costs (of course attendance could increase in those circumstances)

Total costs of the build project best part of £70m. That is debt of £70m against an asset built for £49m

Yes i know there are ways to finance the project by retail parks, residential and industrial units etc. From what i can see the demand for large retail parks is faltering, online shopping is damaging the retail shop experience, industrial units i think there is decent availability in the city. If Owners retain freehold(or long lease) and rent out space thats annual income yes but the debt needs to be met.

Then there is the annual costs. 365 day stadium running costs. The return on capital of the project even at 3% would be 2.1m per annum (on top of the annual costs we already have of 1.9m). The net income ( after deduction of direct costs) from the stadium will first and foremost need to be applied to the daily running costs and the annual finance costs. Say that means a requirement of net income £4m which may equate to £6m total stadium income excl VAT. So the team gets its boost only after stadium running & finance costs paid for

Why does it work at BPA? They already own the stadium, they have a small build, Infra structure costs for small build wont be as onerous, it is city centre, they have some of the income sources in place, it is being built in stages, pitch will be multi use, have CCC on their side etc....

Rather than accepting assurances from owners who have many times not delivered could someone actually show us why it works, why it makes sense, and why the team will be better off. A bland statement we get all the income actually doesnt prove it because we already get much more than match tickets and it ignores the extra costs that come with extra income

 

[ajsccfc]

From the last thing I saw from the estates dept, once the current building works on campus are done there's not going to be anything else major carried out in preparation for and during 2021 for the city of culture year so if (big if) there was anything to be constructed on campus land that isn't already in progress it wouldn't be for some time.

 

[Liquid Gold]

I don't believe for a second SISU are going to build a stadium but then I didn't believe we'd end up in Birmingham or Northampton.

As I've said many times before, going back to when they first mentioned a stadium, why not call their bluff? If everyone got behind it and pressured the council to get SISU to a point where they have no choice but to build it or admit it was all a bluff.

Look at Woodlands for example. Instead of the council stalling for 12 months why not reply and say great idea. We'll give you a 12 month option on a lease, same as we have for Wasps, so get the plans submitted. If they'd have done that when SISU first enquired by now we'd either have plans submitted and be moving forward or SISU having to explain why they haven't gone ahead.

Because the council know if we sort ourselves out elsewhere and London Wasps go pop or home then they'll be stuck with an expensive white elephant and they don't want that.

 

[LevelBest]

Plenty of sports teams stumble along in millions of pounds worth of debt for years. Are wasps actually likely to be in serious trouble over the next couple of years?


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They have to be at risk if the debts are £55m and going up. Income is going down due to CCFC leaving and no European Rugby plus the bond issue and investigation by FCA. Star players leaving, likely to be a weaker team next year and no world class training ground is not how they would have seen it pan out.

It's crazy for both sides because to me the Ricoh doesn't feel like home and surely the same applies to Wasps because apart from the couple of crests it looks like somebody else's ground.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

They have to be at risk if the debts are £55m and going up. Income is going down due to CCFC leaving and no European Rugby plus the bond issue and investigation by FCA. Star players leaving, likely to be a weaker team next year and no world class training ground is not how they would have seen it pan out.

It's crazy for both sides because to me the Ricoh doesn't feel like home and surely the same applies to Wasps because apart from the couple of crests it looks like somebody else's ground.

They may be at risk, but we are too of course.

Could end up some kind of suicide pact between the two of them.

 

[better days]

Its who you owe money too thats a problem! as you say lots of clubs bumble along with debts but invariably the main creditors are owners of the club and the debt only becomes a problem if they decide to pull the loans. In WASP case its a bond and the they are quite avoricious and demanding if there is even a hint of a problem and its like a run on a bank.

There are good analogies from rugby
At the start of the professional era a guy put a fortune into Richmond and turned them into a power house by bringing in top players and moving them to a football stadium - in their case to Madjeski at Reading
Then even though they seemed to be flying at the time he abruptly pulled out and stopped funding them
It was around 1999 I believe
They collapsed into Administration and took years to recover
They weren't the only ones, some of the oldest, proudest rugby union clubs went the same way