Fighting discrimination through discrimination (15 Viewers)

[Evo1883]

Lol worlds going mad

A festival in detroit is charging non people of colour more to attend than people of colour lol..

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...JEAQ&usg=AOvVaw1JYfqCj735wZ7hG8DHBPZt&ampcf=1

 

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[shmmeee]

How would they even police that?

“Is that a tan mate? Half off”

Madness.

Social justice people have gone mental, we had this sorted twenty years ago “treat everyone the same” and everyone agreed. Now we’re adding up oppression points like some kind of board game and it turns people off the whole idea.

I’m with Stephen Fry on this one, forget whether it’s right, it’s just not effective.

 

[Evo1883]

How would they even police that?

“Is that a tan mate? Half off”

Madness.

Social justice people have gone mental, we had this sorted twenty years ago “treat everyone the same” and everyone agreed. Now we’re adding up oppression points like some kind of board game and it turns people off the whole idea.

I’m with Stephen Fry on this one, forget whether it’s right, it’s just not effective.

Problem is, there are actually people on social media who agree with this, it's fucking frightening how thick people are

 

[shmmeee]

Problem is, there are actually people on social media who agree with this, it's fucking frightening how thick people are

Not that many TBF. It’s mostly amplified student politics and teenagers being edgy. The number of actual real life people I’ve met in left wing spaces who think this stuff is a good idea is absolutely tiny.

 

[Evo1883]

Not that many TBF. It’s mostly amplified student politics and teenagers being edgy. The number of actual real life people I’ve met in left wing spaces who think this stuff is a good idea is absolutely tiny.

Good to hear

 

[Gazolba]

How about this?
California becomes first state to ban discrimination against natural hair

 

[djr8369]

Not that many TBF. It’s mostly amplified student politics and teenagers being edgy. The number of actual real life people I’ve met in left wing spaces who think this stuff is a good idea is absolutely tiny.

Exactly. What I think is more worrying is how this is amplified and blown up by those on the right to flair up a culture war, “the world gone mad”, “the left is taking over” etc. I think there must be more right wing governments than almost any time in history.

The only time I ever hear about this kind of thing is when conservatives are moaning about it. Otherwise it would be a fringe thing that’s forgotten about in no time.


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[Gazolba]

Lol worlds going mad

A festival in detroit is charging non people of colour more to attend than people of colour lol..

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...JEAQ&usg=AOvVaw1JYfqCj735wZ7hG8DHBPZt&ampcf=1

There are no people of colour in the USA.
There are only people of color.
And someone should educate these people that neither black nor white is a colour/color.
What they are doing is clearly illegal.

 

[Evo1883]

There are no people of colour in the USA.
There are only people of color.
And someone should educate these people that neither black nor white is a colour/color.
What they are doing is clearly illegal.

It's actually against the law in America, be Interesting to see where this goes

 

[Evo1883]

Exactly. What I think is more worrying is how this is amplified and blown up by those on the right to flair up a culture war, “the world gone mad”, “the left is taking over” etc. I think there must be more right wing governments than almost any time in history.

The only time I ever hear about this kind of thing is when conservatives are moaning about it. Otherwise it would be a fringe thing that’s forgotten about in no time.


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I hadn't heard about it until I saw it on sky news tbh

 

[SkyblueBazza]

It's actually against the law in America, be Interesting to see where this goes

Interesting concept...explain; black shoes & the polish we make them shine with; those boards teachers use white chalk to write on blackboards with; white paint for ceilings & skirting boards.
I agree that the terms applied to skin colour are quite sweeping & inaccurate. Don't see why they are needed or matter apart from '...police are looking for...' or other harmless descriptive purposes to identify people we are specifically referring to...like - ' the guy in the red shirt'
"There are 2 guys in red shirts"
'The white guy in the red shirt'

Perhaps it's just me. Same with LGBT all that. I (& I suspect the vast majority of people) really don't care about anybody elses sexuality, or gender, or colour, or age. It's become more of a reflection on those that do care imo. But I recognise that is maybe much easier for someone with a thick white hetero male skin to say.


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[OffenhamSkyBlue]

Perhaps it's just me. Same with LGBT all that. I (& I suspect the vast majority of people) really don't care about anybody elses sexuality, or gender, or colour, or age. It's become more of a reflection on those that do care imo. But I recognise that is maybe much easier for someone with a thick white hetero male skin to say.

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I totally agree with this sentiment, Bazza.
Moreover, the workplace is NOT the place to talk about your sexuality, no matter what that might be. It is IRRELEVANT as far as your work goes, and it is just a waste of time!

As far as the colour debate goes, i saw the [black] comedian Reginald D Hunter do a gig a few years back (in Cambridge, so was very white and middle-class). At the start, and i quote verbatim, so make no apologies for not editing certain words, he said that "the word "nigger" was just street vernacular when he was growing up in Georgia, and was still in common usage", but apologised in case anyone in the audience was offended by his frequent use of the term. He then said "anyway, i'm trying to figure out when the word nigger became offensive to white folks". Got the biggest laugh of the night!

It all comes down to being offended on other people's behalf, which was the problem with "loony-Left" councils back in the 80s (e.g. Leicester City Council not allowing people to call it Christmas in case it upset the Hindus, Sikhs and Muslims in the city - until the realisation came that none of them were offended by it, and enjoyed it as much as the Christian population).

 

[shmmeee]

I totally agree with this sentiment, Bazza.
Moreover, the workplace is NOT the place to talk about your sexuality, no matter what that might be. It is IRRELEVANT as far as your work goes, and it is just a waste of time!

As far as the colour debate goes, i saw the [black] comedian Reginald D Hunter do a gig a few years back (in Cambridge, so was very white and middle-class). At the start, and i quote verbatim, so make no apologies for not editing certain words, he said that "the word "nigger" was just street vernacular when he was growing up in Georgia, and was still in common usage", but apologised in case anyone in the audience was offended by his frequent use of the term. He then said "anyway, i'm trying to figure out when the word nigger became offensive to white folks". Got the biggest laugh of the night!

It all comes down to being offended on other people's behalf, which was the problem with "loony-Left" councils back in the 80s (e.g. Leicester City Council not allowing people to call it Christmas in case it upset the Hindus, Sikhs and Muslims in the city - until the realisation came that none of them were offended by it, and enjoyed it as much as the Christian population).

Have you got a source for that last bit? Doesn’t seem right to me.

This article states it was the late 90s that people started getting triggered about “banning Christmas” (also that it’s always been nonsense). HuffPost is now part of Oath

Best I can find is this rather looney website cataloguing the “looney left” that talks about an ox roast being banned but them never actually going through with it. Garbagegate - Three Decades of the Loony Left

 

[OffenhamSkyBlue]

It was pre-internet days, Shmmeeee, so i'm not sure it would be in the archives much, but i lived there from 86 to 00, and the City Council's "PC gone mad" stance was legendary. They famously put up a "Midwinter arboreal decoration" in Town Hall Square. Known to the rest of us as a Christmas tree! The Diwali lights along Belgrave Road were fantastic, but it was only in the late 90s that they started labelling the same decorations (which stayed up between Diwali and Christmas) with messages including the word Christmas, because the Hindu community around there said it was ludicrous not to. The society in Leicester was brilliantly multi-cultural and integrated, and most of the immigrant population (for want of a better term) went there to integrate into British society, not to be offended by it.
It is odd that subsequent generations (whose links to the country of heritage are more distant) have decided that they want to be in conflict with these principles.

 

[Astute]

It was pre-internet days, Shmmeeee, so i'm not sure it would be in the archives much, but i lived there from 86 to 00, and the City Council's "PC gone mad" stance was legendary. They famously put up a "Midwinter arboreal decoration" in Town Hall Square. Known to the rest of us as a Christmas tree! The Diwali lights along Belgrave Road were fantastic, but it was only in the late 90s that they started labelling the same decorations (which stayed up between Diwali and Christmas) with messages including the word Christmas, because the Hindu community around there said it was ludicrous not to. The society in Leicester was brilliantly multi-cultural and integrated, and most of the immigrant population (for want of a better term) went there to integrate into British society, not to be offended by it.
It is odd that subsequent generations (whose links to the country of heritage are more distant) have decided that they want to be in conflict with these principles.

The problem these days is that whichever "correct" term is used there are people waiting in hope of being able to say they have been offended.

 

[rob9872]

Whatever the rights and wrongs of the situation, fair play to the marketing guy who must be on a huge bonus! The best free PR that they'll ever get.

 

[rob9872]

I totally agree with this sentiment, Bazza.
Moreover, the workplace is NOT the place to talk about your sexuality, no matter what that might be. It is IRRELEVANT as far as your work goes, and it is just a waste of time!

As far as the colour debate goes, i saw the [black] comedian Reginald D Hunter do a gig a few years back (in Cambridge, so was very white and middle-class). At the start, and i quote verbatim, so make no apologies for not editing certain words, he said that "the word "nigger" was just street vernacular when he was growing up in Georgia, and was still in common usage", but apologised in case anyone in the audience was offended by his frequent use of the term. He then said "anyway, i'm trying to figure out when the word nigger became offensive to white folks". Got the biggest laugh of the night!

It all comes down to being offended on other people's behalf, which was the problem with "loony-Left" councils back in the 80s (e.g. Leicester City Council not allowing people to call it Christmas in case it upset the Hindus, Sikhs and Muslims in the city - until the realisation came that none of them were offended by it, and enjoyed it as much as the Christian population).

Reported

 

[rob9872]

What I find most disappointing about this is not the polar opposite pricing of $10 PoC, $20 PoNC, but no $15 for mixed race or even $12.50/$17.50, depending on grandparents. I'd be spitting feathers if that was me and I wasn't charged the correct price!

 

[Gazolba]

Lol worlds going mad

A festival in detroit is charging non people of colour more to attend than people of colour lol..

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...JEAQ&usg=AOvVaw1JYfqCj735wZ7hG8DHBPZt&ampcf=1

This place has now reversed their policy after the furore it created:
www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-48911917

Here's another example of a place (in Australia) that tried a similar thing:
‘Man tax’ vegan café to close

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

The problem these days is that whichever "correct" term is used there are people waiting in hope of being able to say they have been offended.

The LGBTQI+D.I.S.C.O brigade are really good at that. Changed the name about four times in a year because it discriminated against someone or other and accused people of being ignorant cause they used the wrong term on social media two minutes after some unknown person had decided to change it. Didn't do them any favours and just managed to piss a lot of people who fundamentally supported their cause by accusing them of discrimination.

 

[fellatio_Martinez]

What I find most disappointing about this is not the polar opposite pricing of $10 PoC, $20 PoNC, but no $15 for mixed race or even $12.50/$17.50, depending on grandparents. I'd be spitting feathers if that was me and I wasn't charged the correct price!

What about black albinos? I'm dying to hear their take on this.

 

[Gazolba]

More madness, California city to ban gendered words:
Yahoo is now part of Oath

 

[Cov City Daytrader 87]

More madness, California city to ban gendered words:
Yahoo is now part of Oath

Oh dear.

'Hello 911? I need to be rescued as I fell into a personhole!' :banghead:

 

[fellatio_Martinez]

More madness, California city to ban gendered words:
Yahoo is now part of Oath

LETS CHANGE MANCHESTER TO TO PERSONCHESTER!!!

 

[Sick Boy]

Perhaps it's just me. Same with LGBT all that. I (& I suspect the vast majority of people) really don't care about anybody elses sexuality, or gender, or colour, or age. It's become more of a reflection on those that do care imo. But I recognise that is maybe much easier for someone with a thick white hetero male skin to say.


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Sadly there are those that are still bothered by it.

While the country is certainly more tolerant than it was some decades ago, I’d say that we still have a long way to go before members of the LGBT are full accepted within society.

Can you imagine 2 men being able to openly hold hands in all UK cities without some form of abuse. The only place I’ve ever seen it is Brighton and even then it was rare and homophobic attacks were not rare.

 

[SkyblueBazza]

More madness, California city to ban gendered words:
Yahoo is now part of Oath

Interesting...so now a police officer of either gender will be assigned to search suspects? There will be no toilet separation? Clothes will all be the same sizing & shaping? And how will paramedics be able to explain to hospitals what they are dealing with without giving the game away?
The world has not gone mad, just some of the people on it have!

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[rd45]

But I recognise that is maybe much easier for someone with a thick white hetero male skin to say.

Yes. Exactly this.

Most of what most white people have to say about racism is bullshit. Most of what most straight people have to say about homophobia is bullshit. Most of what most men have to say about sexism is bullshit.

They haven’t experienced it, so they should shut the fuck up & hear from the people who have.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Yes. Exactly this.

Most of what most white people have to say about racism is bullshit. Most of what most straight people have to say about homophobia is bullshit. Most of what most men have to say about sexism is bullshit.

They haven’t experienced it, so they should shut the fuck up & hear from the people who have.

While on the whole I agree with you does this also mean it should apply to women about male privilege, black people about white privilege and LGBT about straight privilege?

They haven’t experienced it, so they should shut the fuck up & hear from the people who have.

There was this piece I saw from the US a few years ago with a black woman lecturing people on slavery and reparations. A white woman came up and started having a go at her about not having a clue. Cue accusations of racism etc. Turned out the white woman had actually been forced into prostitution earlier in her life by a pimp. The black woman had never been a slave, neither had her parents, grandparents or anyone else in her family in living memory.

 

[rd45]

Turned out the white women has actually been forced into prostitution earlier in her life by a pimp. The black women had never been a slave, neither had her parents, grandparents or anyone else in her family in living memory.

On one level, we’d like to say that any human being can offer their understanding & their solidarity to any other human being, and if it’s given in good faith then it can be received in good faith too.

But realistically, you’re going to take it much better from someone who’s got a sufficiently similar experience of life as your own, because they know where you’re coming from.

To make a football analogy - Bury fans & Bolton fans are in a fairly similar spot right now, and can meaningfully offer a lot of solidarity to each other. Our fans aren’t in quite such a bad place as them, but we know well enough what it’s like - so we can offer our well wishes to Bury & Bolton fans & have that taken seriously. On the other side, fans of - I don’t know, let’s pick an example - Man City? On the whole they should probably stay out of it, given that they have very little idea what it’s like to fear for the very existence of your club.

So - if I as a straight white guy want to talk about discrimination, I need to stay aware that I’m analogous to the Man City fan in this situation, and check what I’m saying, or I’ll risk offending someone else who knows this stuff from first hand. They should get to speak first.

 

[fellatio_Martinez]

There was this piece I saw from the US a few years ago with a black woman lecturing people on slavery and reparations. A white woman came up and started having a go at her about not having a clue. Cue accusations of racism etc. Turned out the white women has actually been forced into prostitution earlier in her life by a pimp. The black women had never been a slave, neither had her parents, grandparents or anyone else in her family in living memory.

Good point.

Saying that white people, men or heterosexuals should just "shut the fuck up" is rabid leftism and doesn't take into account anything other than skin colour, gender and sexual preference which is a form of discrimination in itself.

 

[Evo1883]

Good point.

Saying that white people, men or heterosexuals should just "shut the fuck up" is rabid leftism and doesn't take into account anything other than skin colour, gender and sexual preference which is a form of discrimination in itself.

Absolutely

 

[rd45]

Saying that white people, men or heterosexuals should just "shut the fuck up" is rabid leftism

We all hear plenty from straight white men. More than enough. There are other voices that deserve to heard. Not only on these subjects, but it’s a good place to start.

 

[fellatio_Martinez]

We all hear plenty from straight white men. More than enough. There are other voices that deserve to heard. Not only on these subjects, but it’s a good place to start.

I don't see where white men are overwhelming minority voices. Can you give me some examples?

I'm not talking about Twitter or web forums but in actual places where it matters.

It's not like that as a society we're not moving into a far more progressive landscape than before.

"This election has created one of the most diverse House of Commons ever. It’s made up of more female, more black, Asian and minority ethnic (BAME), and more lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender (LGBT) MPs than ever before"

How Parliament is becoming more diverse

 

[rd45]

"This election has created one of the most diverse House of Commons ever. It’s made up of more female, more black, Asian and minority ethnic (BAME), and more lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender (LGBT) MPs than ever before"[/URL]

Yes, thank you, that’s a perfect example. More of this please. More women, more BAME, more LGBT+ MPs is good for all of us. Move out some straight white men to make room. When both houses of parliament reflect the diversity of the whole country, we’ll really have got somewhere.

 

[shmmeee]

Yes. Exactly this.

Most of what most white people have to say about racism is bullshit. Most of what most straight people have to say about homophobia is bullshit. Most of what most men have to say about sexism is bullshit.

They haven’t experienced it, so they should shut the fuck up & hear from the people who have.

No. This isn’t a healthy way to run a society at all. It’s what leads to some of the crap like young authors getting cancelled because they aren’t black enough to write a story with a black character.

People have empathy and sympathy and a working brain. And just because you’re in a minority doesn’t mean your subjective view is always 100% correct.

Rights are always balanced in a liberal democracy. Whether that’s religious peoples rights to avoid being made to make statements they don’t agree with, scientists rights to describe the truth as they see it, atheists rights to call out religious intolerance where they see it or women’s rights to privacy and safety from men.

As a society you talk together for a compromise or you set yourself up for failure. Everyone should have a seat at the table, no one should take priority over another by default. For a start, which gay people do you pick to represent “the gays”? Owen Jones and Milo Yiannopoulos would give you very different answers as would Diane Abbott and Candice Owens on race or a liberal and radical feminist on sex.