The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (54 Viewers)

[skybluetony176]

The advisory referendum that was approved by sovereign parliament and and into bring because the party who introduced it was elected by a majority under our electoral rules.

The sovereignty of parliament was only upheld following a JR from an individual who is regularly labelled by Brexit supporters as a traitor and someone guilty of treason.
Sovereign parliament can’t agree what it means and even those who campaigned for Brexit are voting against Brexit in parliament. The Tories wasn’t elected by a majority hence it had to enter an agreement with the DUP.

 

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[SkyBlueDom26]

Jeremy Corbyn calls on next PM to put deal to second referendum

Captain twat is now backing a Second Ref

 

[martcov]

Those who are in charge of the EU want her. If they didn't she wouldn't have a chance



In a statement, Jean-Claude Juncker said: “The solution we’ve found is a good one. Ursula von der Leyen has extensive experience in defence and social policy. I believe it would be in the European parliament’s interest to approve this – though I am sad the spitzenkandidaten process suffered a setback.”

Juncker is accepting who was nominated, but not agreeing with how she was nominated

 

[Astute]

You already have the answers so you keep telling us “the U.K. will not have control over it’s armed forces and no say in what wars we enter “. You’re now agreeing that questions need answering. Which is it? You can’t have it both ways.

Yes Tony.

Strange how the questions were for you but you don't answer any of them. You have contradicted yourself on the matter. I said I am worried on the subject and we don't know which way it would go.

So what are all your answers as you don't see a problem with an EU army.

 

[martcov]

Yes Tony.

Strange how the questions were for you but you don't answer any of them. You have contradicted yourself on the matter. I said I am worried on the subject and we don't know which way it would go.

So what are all your answers as you don't see a problem with an EU army.

There is no problem because it doesn’t exist and it requires unanimous agreement anyway. You can’t say how it will be because no one knows. It’s uses will be laid out in a mandate. No one is on about replacing NATO, as far as I know, so it will be in a NATO framework.

As to whether it would be used against an invasion in The Falklands, that will be set out in any mandate. In leaving the EU we automatically lose the guaranteed support of the EU against Argentina‘s claims on the islands. We should expect the question to arise shortly.

 

[martcov]

The advisory referendum that was approved by sovereign parliament and and into bring because the party who introduced it was elected by a majority under our electoral rules.

It is not binding, so the sovereign parliament can ditch the result if it wants to.

 

[Astute]

There is no problem because it doesn’t exist and it requires unanimous agreement anyway. You can’t say how it will be because no one knows. It’s uses will be laid out in a mandate. No one is on about replacing NATO, as far as I know, so it will be in a NATO framework.

As to whether it would be used against an invasion in The Falklands, that will be set out in any mandate. In leaving the EU we automatically lose the guaranteed support of the EU against Argentina‘s claims on the islands. We should expect the question to arise shortly.

Another one who refuses to answer questions on what an EU army would consist of whilst defending it.

Do you think I am wrong to have serious doubts about it? If so then answer my questions.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

I’m just pleased there is no double standards at work in the election for the next prime minister.

Which is more the will of the people? 48% who voted remain or 14 million of you will or 0.3% or 160000 who are voting for Hunt or Bojo? Such an absolute farce

 

[Grendel]

It is not binding, so the sovereign parliament can ditch the result if it wants to.

As it can ditch the result of any second referendum - perhaps labour should have s manifesto to ditch it - how do you think they would get on?

The Eu of course as usual bent the rules to suit itself by giving the unilateral option to cancel Article 50 but that ain’t going to happen

 

[Grendel]

I’m just pleased there is no double standards at work in the election for the next prime minister.

Which is more the will of the people? 48% who voted remain or 14 million of you will or 0.3% or 160000 who are voting for Hunt or Bojo? Such an absolute farce

Why is it? Gordon brown, John Major, James Callaghan we’re elected by MPs only

 

[martcov]

Another one who refuses to answer questions on what an EU army would consist of whilst defending it.

Do you think I am wrong to have serious doubts about it? If so then answer my questions.

I have said we don’t know the details, but we do know that 27 sovereign states will have to decide on a mandate for it. The only countries that are known for invading or attacking other countries in a serious way are France and the UK. Seeing as the UK is leaving, the only country with form on invasion or attacking is France, it follows that any army will be purely defensive.

 

[martcov]

As it can ditch the result of any second referendum - perhaps labour should have s manifesto to ditch it - how do you think they would get on?

The Eu of course as usual bent the rules to suit itself by giving the unilateral option to cancel Article 50 but that ain’t going to happen

Labour are moving to a second referendum and campaigning for remain if it looks like a Tory deal or no deal.

Bent the rules by letting a sovereign state retain it’s sovereignty?

The EU can’t win. Take it’s sovereignty, it’s Merkel‘s 4 Reich, let a country retain it’s sovereignty, bending the rules to suit itself.

 

[martcov]

Why is it? Gordon brown, John Major, James Callaghan we’re elected by MPs only

Who chose them? The members or the parliamentary party? The problem here is that the Tory party has been infiltrated by Blukips and similar which distorts the Tory party and moves it to the right, plus the main candidate is totally dishonest and is not ‚clean‘. The majority of the British people are against his appointment.

 

[Astute]

I’m just pleased there is no double standards at work in the election for the next prime minister.

Which is more the will of the people? 48% who voted remain or 14 million of you will or 0.3% or 160000 who are voting for Hunt or Bojo? Such an absolute farce

Since when did we vote for a new PM mid term? Have you called it a farce previously?

 

[Astute]

I have said we don’t know the details, but we do know that 27 sovereign states will have to decide on a mandate for it. The only countries that are known for invading or attacking other countries in a serious way are France and the UK. Seeing as the UK is leaving, the only country with form on invasion or attacking is France, it follows that any army will be purely defensive.

Why are you so blind and think we are so thick?

Germany anyone?

 

[Astute]

Labour are moving to a second referendum and campaigning for remain if it looks like a Tory deal or no deal.

Bent the rules by letting a sovereign state retain it’s sovereignty?

The EU can’t win. Take it’s sovereignty, it’s Merkel‘s 4 Reich, let a country retain it’s sovereignty, bending the rules to suit itself.

Whilst you make out that the UK causes war and Germany never has. Has living in Germany wiped out the last 2 world wars from your memory?

 

[Astute]

Who chose them? The members or the parliamentary party? The problem here is that the Tory party has been infiltrated by Blukips and similar which distorts the Tory party and moves it to the right, plus the main candidate is totally dishonest and is not ‚clean‘. The majority of the British people are against his appointment.

So Germany has never invaded countries and nobody wants BJ as PM.

Seems about right for posts from you.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Captain twat

Dicksplash lol

rofl

 

[skybluetony176]

Yes Tony.

Strange how the questions were for you but you don't answer any of them. You have contradicted yourself on the matter. I said I am worried on the subject and we don't know which way it would go.

So what are all your answers as you don't see a problem with an EU army.

I haven’t contradicted myself anywhere. I’ve been steady on that should it happen (and that’s doubtful) it will be along the lines of and linked to NATO. Of the very little that has been said by anyone in a position who wants it and can be part of facilitating it its all been on that basis. You on the other hand seem to have swallowed all the right wing scaremongering and think we’re going to be forced to invade somewhere against our will. To accuse others of contradiction and then claim that you said you don’t know which way it will go is just too funny for words when you’ve said at least half a dozen times in the last couple of pages or so “Because if there was an EU army we wouldn't have any choice on going to war” or words similar to that effect. Same old astute, trying to rewrite what you’ve said.

 

[skybluetony176]

Since when did we vote for a new PM mid term?

The last general election for one.

 

[martcov]

So Germany has never invaded countries and nobody wants BJ as PM.

Seems about right for posts from you.

? No idea what you are on about, but Germany isn’t allowed to start wars or invade other countries by it’s own constitution. The constitution was written after the last war.

The majority of all voters don’t want BoJo as PM. Who said no one wants BJ?

 

[martcov]

Whilst you make out that the UK causes war and Germany never has. Has living in Germany wiped out the last 2 world wars from your memory?

I said that Germany hasn’t started any wars since the EU ( common market) was formed and won’t be starting any in the future because of it’s constitution. The UK doesn’t have this restriction embedded in it’s constitution, partly because it doesn’t have a written constitution.

 

[martcov]

Why are you so blind and think we are so thick?

Germany anyone?

I am talking about the EU. The EU didn’t exist the last time Germany was involved in a war. Britain and France have been bombing and fighting in several other countries.

 

[Astute]

I haven’t contradicted myself anywhere. I’ve been steady on that should it happen (and that’s doubtful) it will be along the lines of and linked to NATO. Of the very little that has been said by anyone in a position who wants it and can be part of facilitating it its all been on that basis. You on the other hand seem to have swallowed all the right wing scaremongering and think we’re going to be forced to invade somewhere against our will. To accuse others of contradiction and then claim that you said you don’t know which way it will go is just too funny for words when you’ve said at least half a dozen times in the last couple of pages or so “Because if there was an EU army we wouldn't have any choice on going to war” or words similar to that effect. Same old astute, trying to rewrite what you’ve said.

So off you go on a two man mission to not answer any questions but try to maje out no questions were asked 'Mart would join in with anyone willing to hide the truth'.

Try answering the questions.

You also need to make your mind up.

If there was an EU army would we have our own armed forces? If yes then Iraq could still happen.

If no......

So what would happen if we got attacked by another country? What would happen if something similar to the Falklands happened? Would the EU army sort it out?

If no then we would be in a weaker position. If yes.....

So there are 28 countries in the EU army. All 28 countries need their territories defending. Would we go into action to defend all 28?

To me these are a few questions that would need answering. As of yet there are no correct or incorrect answers. But an army that looks after 28 countries is a lot more complex than one that looks after one. There are a lot of mad people on this earth. Look at North Korea for example. Instead of making war less of a chance it could multiply the chances.

And no. We don't have the answers. Yes. I care about my future generations. Yes I am right to be worried.

But of course you won't. Because there could be problems whichever direction the answers go.

 

[Astute]

The last general election for one.

And another twisting or hiding of the truth.

 

[Astute]

? No idea what you are on about, but Germany isn’t allowed to start wars or invade other countries by it’s own constitution. The constitution was written after the last war.

No idea why I mentioned Germany?

I have said we don’t know the details, but we do know that 27 sovereign states will have to decide on a mandate for it. The only countries that are known for invading or attacking other countries in a serious way are France and the UK. Seeing as the UK is leaving, the only country with form on invasion or attacking is France, it follows that any army will be purely defensive.

So are you saying that you didn't say only France and England have form for invading or attacking other countries or didn't Germany ever invade or attack other countries?

Same as usual. You try to make the EU and Germany not guilty of anything but like to blame the UK for as much as you can.

 

[Astute]

I said that Germany hasn’t started any wars since the EU ( common market) was formed and won’t be starting any in the future because of it’s constitution. The UK doesn’t have this restriction embedded in it’s constitution, partly because it doesn’t have a written constitution.

Did you? Show me the bit I missed out then. Because I can't find it.

 

[skybluetony176]

And another twisting or hiding of the truth.

A general election wasn’t due until 2020 but an ill advised May decided to call an early election in the middle of that term. What exactly I am “twisting or hiding”?

 

[skybluetony176]

So off you go on a two man mission to not answer any questions but try to maje out no questions were asked 'Mart would join in with anyone willing to hide the truth'.

Try answering the questions.

But of course you won't. Because there could be problems whichever direction the answers go.

Backtracking after repeatedly claiming this “Because if there was an EU army we wouldn't have any choice on going to war”. Note the quote marks, that means I’m quoting you directly. That’s your words, not one word has been changed by me. You’ll still accuse me of twisting no doubt.

 

[westcountry_skyblue]

Labours stance now means in marginals and the midlands and north is like turkeys voting for Christmas!!
They need to think outside the M25 bubble.

 

[Houchens Head]

Who said no one wants BJ?

I used to quite like a BJ in my younger days. Forgotten what they're like now. :emoji_sob:

 

[Ian1779]

Labours stance now means in marginals and the midlands and north is like turkeys voting for Christmas!!
They need to think outside the M25 bubble.

I agree - I wish they hadn't gone this far.

They now have to go to those places and show how this will solve their problems.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Yep it is a farce

Since when did we vote for a new PM mid term? Have you called it a farce previously?[/QUOte

 

[skybluetony176]

I used to quite like a BJ in my younger days. Forgotten what they're like now. :emoji_sob:

 

[Alan Dugdales Moustache]

Why are you so blind and think we are so thick?

Germany anyone?

Hahah. Did the dirty old man forget his beloved Germany were past masters at invasion? His mind is on other things perhaps.