The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (53 Viewers)
- Thread starter jimmyhillsfanclub
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skybluetony176
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SkyBlueDom26
Well-Known Member
Parliament are a joke, embarrassment the lot of them....we voted leave by a MAJORITY when will these selfish twats deliver on it, there doing everything they can to betray the majority
Grendel
Well-Known Member
He’s now saying that the 26 countries and an EU army would have more clout than NATO
Grendel
Well-Known Member
Germany wasn’t allowed to go to war last time due to treaties from the prior war. What’s stupid is believing treaties and protocols mean anything if any country decides it wants to perform an act of aggression
Who is? I said it would probably be a part of NATO.
Germany was forced to sign the Treaty of Versailles which included reparations, occupation and limits of military forces. The people hated that and suffered enormously, especially as reparations resulted in hyperinflation. Then came the Wall Street Crash and 6 million unemployed in Germany which led to a right wing nationalist dictatorship.
No comparison to being members of a voluntary Union designed to prevent wars, and having a constitution which forbids wars of aggression.
As you well know, the EU is more than a treaty and a protokol. A country‘s constitution is not likely to be scrapped without a full scale revolution. Having your troops merged with 26 countries‘ armies makes it even harder to go it alone.
Once again no comparison to 1930s Germany.
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
“We” voted leave to protect parliamentary sovereignty. It was the corner stone of the leave campaign. You’ve got what you voted for. Enjoy.
SkyBlueDom26
Well-Known Member
I'll never understand why people can't just accept a result, lets be serious if remoan won then there wouldn't be half as much whingeing as there is now
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
I’ll never understand why people who voted leave didn’t understand what parliamentary democracy is. It was always going to be like this, the ones whinging about it is the ones who voted for it. Go figure.
That’s a little disingenuous Tony. There obviously will be more control over our laws etc (through parliamentary democracy) if we leave the EU (for good or bad). The fact we’ve got poor MPs who have shown themselves incapable of addressing/delivering on one of the major issues of our time is not the fault of leavers.
Let’s be honest there aren’t many stand out politicians around. Maybe a lot of leavers wondered why we are pay for two lots of crap politicians/bureaucrats so by voting out we can just pay for one !
SkyBlueDom26
Well-Known Member
Too much fear factor in some people, remoaners need to toughen up and get over it....were leaving
There are endless possibilities to make new deals especially a great one with the USA
One reason is that we will not be financially better off on 01. November. Even Farage admits that Brexit was never about economics. There will be a Hit. The only question is for how long and how much. Half the population doesn’t want to be economically worse for some hot air reasons of sovereignty or identity.
We had over 40 years of whinging after little England lost in the 70s. It’s our turn now. Enjoy.
SkyBlueDom26
Well-Known Member
'Little England' do you hate your own country?
Less than half actually, don't think remain got 50% in the vote do you? Shows how much you know... deluded
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
It’s not disingenuous at all. What’s disingenuous is pretending and promising it will be the easiest thing in the world.
Did you ever see the joint interview of Ferage and Gina Miller on Andrew Marr’s Sunday program IIRC. It was just after the JR and Ferage wis giving it all the usual will of the people crap having a go at Gina Miller. She pointed out to him that he should be thanking her not criticising her pointing out that he had campaigned to maintain parliamentary sovereignty and all she had done was made sure what he campaigned for was delivered. Ferage acknowledges that he campaigned on parliamentary sovereignty but said all she’d done is complicate things. What surprised me is Gina Miller didn’t have him on that point. If parliamentary sovereignty was always going to complicate things then either Ferage and the rest of the leave campaign for that matter campaigned disingenuously for parliamentary sovereignty in the first place as they never really wanted it but it was a good catchphrase to use to trick voters into thinking that their democracy was being eroded by EU membership or they never understood what parliamentary sovereignty was in the first place and are pretending it means something else after the event. Either way acknowledging what parliamentary sovereignty is is not being disingenuous, an inconvenient truth should not be confused with it.
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
We can’t even roll deals forward let alone make new ones.
SIR ERNIE
Well-Known Member
Someone commented recently that all Remainers ever talk about is how bad Brexit is. They ridicule those who voted for it and those who campaigned for it but they rarely tell us how great the EU is and how bright our future will be in it. It’s essentially an extremely negative position. I wonder why?
24/7 Tony is a great example of that observation, pretty much all of his posts fall into that description.
24/7 Tony is a great example of that observation, pretty much all of his posts fall into that description.
SkyBlueDom26
Well-Known Member
Martcov is the perfect example, the guy probably has a position in the EU Parliament
I still think combining the two is slightly disingenuous. The mess being made by parliament is not due to Leave and us having parliamentary sovereignty....it’s due to the inept MPs (many of whom, on both sides of the argument, have vested interests and others that are politicising it). The positive thing is, in the next election, which may not be far away, the public can have a direct say by getting rid of those they are unhappy with.
I know the alternative argument is that we can get rid of our MEPs in future, however, that doesn’t have the same impact on the major decisions made by the EU. By the way, if it was my call, I’d get rid of all of the MEPs on both sides of the argument, they were both an embarrassment to the country on the first sitting.
Sky_Blue_Dreamer
Well-Known Member
Why not? It's not like there haven't been people banging on about how bad being in the EU has been and how we should leave ASAP for the past 45 years.
Sky_Blue_Dreamer
Well-Known Member
If you're the USA. TTIP is shite and that's with the whole EU. We're going to be left to the mercy of poorer regulation H&S and environmental protections, huge companies being given free rein to do as they please because money is apparently more important than humans and potentially the entire health system being sold off. Great...can't wait for that.
There are endless opportunities for new deals. There are also endless possibilities to fuck them up and end up with shit deals. One of the numerous reasons I voted remain was I looked at those we have in parliament and asked "do I have faith in them to get better deals than we get now?" My answer was no. The problems we've had in just getting Brexit sorted has only enforced this opinion.
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Sky_Blue_Dreamer
Well-Known Member
Because voting to remain is the status quo. you can't say "we're keeping things as they are, so things are going to be much, much better".
The only thing you can do is say that the proposed changes will be worse than what exists currently.
It'd be like someone saying they're planning to chop off one of your legs and you've got to explain how your life will massively IMPROVE if they let you keep it. You can't say to them "if you don't I'll suddenly become an Olympic athlete" Your life would continue as it is now.
They on the other hand could say "your life will be improved because you'll never get another cramp or tear any muscles or ligaments in that leg". It's true, but it's nowhere near as good as keeping the leg.
Cant argue with the assessment. Maybe too many of us put too much faith in (our inept) politicians to deliver something resembling a decent deal
2016 52% of people bothered to vote. 2019 about half.
No, I have asked what will be better on 01 November. What will you be able to do after Brexit that you cannot do now? What laws will cease to oppress you? All people talk about is Selmayr, v der L, Juncker etc., but tangible benefits are not mentioned. Just slogans, passports and fish.
There are no convincing arguments as to how we will be better off.
Ivanka Trump, unelected daughter, has the power to drop a meeting with Fox. Canada has stalled talks. Australia wants to do a deal with the EU before us.
Taking back control? We do what other countries tell us to and our trade deals will be done at their pace and on their conditions as we are a distressed trading partner. Please tell me the positives? Not sovereignty, which we have, or control of our money, which we have of 99%, not pie in the sky trade deals or global Britain, but tangible benefits.
Farage now says Brexit was never about economics. His mates have made millions though and he has become a household name and been kept in luxury by the owner of gold mines and insurance companies.
I don’t hate England. I love it. I can’t stand the scumbags dragging it into the dirt. Our ambassador cannot even say what he observes without being insulted and barred by an infantile spoilt brat. Our future PM throws him under a bus and doesn’t hit back at his public insulting of our current PM. At least the ambassador‘s views are shared by most others in the Washington community and were sent by a private telegram not for publication. Trump‘s anti May tweets were designed to embarrass the UK government. The Trump lovers on here will take Trump‘s or Boris‘ side whilst saying that I hate the UK.
I have been against the Trump, Bannon, Altright, Farage Team the whole time.
SkyblueBazza
Well-Known Member
If the said army has an opt-out on going to war it renders it as laughable as some of the other contentious shite the EU produces.
Think Ukraine - had they been in the EU when part-occupied (Crimea) by Russia - how strongly on a scale of 1-10 do you believe the EU army would 've been deployed to reclaim it?
I think they would still be talking about what action to take...so 1!!!
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SkyblueBazza
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SkyblueBazza
Well-Known Member
I refer the right honourable gentleman to the comment I made on Crimea earlier
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SkyblueBazza
Well-Known Member
In fairness - if remain got the nod I suspect there would be a no story by now
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SkyblueBazza
Well-Known Member
More to the point - being economically worse off in the medium to long-term due to the levelling out of economies (I.e. the UK, Spain, Italy especially were always going to suffer more than Germany & France - it is just set up that way!) Is perfectly acceptable to some!
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SkyblueBazza
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Unless we elect politicians who are genuinely more concerned for people, & communities that would be at their mercy!
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SkyblueBazza
Well-Known Member
Hmmm...a bit like the people that were banging on about Thatcher ruining communities by closing mines...now banging on about climate-change?
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If the EU army had been in Ukraine and the EU army had been in NATO, Putin would not have been in the Ukraine. The question is irrelevant. Noticed that he hasn’t invaded Estonia or Latvia?
Explain. The vast majority of scientists and most governments are banging on about climate change. You can see it happening without having to ask a scientist. More CO2 in the air = warming.
We are producing huge amounts of CO2. Hmmm...
The people denying it think that Trump is clever, that Brexit is a good idea and that all Muslims are bad people... and big up Farage, the BXP and/ or UKIP. Why is that?