What is going on with the Tory leadership contest? (13 Viewers)

[skybluetony176]

It will make absolutely no difference to any other country who wants to trade with us.

I think you’re 100% right. No one is queuing up to do a deal with us now so that isn’t going to change if we do a hard brexit and don’t pay up our contractual obligations to the EU.

 

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[Grendel]

I think you’re 100% right. No one is queuing up to do a deal with us now so that isn’t going to change if we do a hard brexit and don’t pay up our contractual obligations to the EU.

Where’s the actual contract then? I thought this was a negotiated figure?

 

[skybluetony176]

Britain's forgotten fascists

Some of the parallels between Mosley and Ferage are scary. Fair enough Ferage has tried and failed to enter Westminster through election but he’s still expecting and talking about having a pact and say with an elected government. People like Rees-Mogg are clearly happy to align themselves with him also.

 

[skybluetony176]

Where’s the actual contract then? I thought this was a negotiated figure?

The contract is article 50.

 

[Grendel]

The contract is article 50.

Is it? So when we signed the article the figure was was in the act of parliament?

 

[skybluetony176]

Is it? So when we signed the article the figure was was in the act of parliament?

David “we can make individual deals with EU countries” Davis agreed it and it forms part of the withdrawal agreement. The withdrawal agreement is a contract. The only reason it won’t pass parliament is because those who promoted a withdrawal agreement won’t vote for it. Having mostly not wanting a vote on it in the first place. Gina Miller must be their hero forcing them to reject what they campaigned for.

 

[Grendel]

David “we can make individual deals with EU countries” Davis agreed it and it forms part of the withdrawal agreement. The withdrawal agreement is a contract. The only reason it won’t pass parliament is because those who promoted a withdrawal agreement won’t vote for it. Having mostly not wanting a vote on it in the first place. Gina Miller must be their hero forcing them to reject what they campaigned for.

So is the £39 billion in Article 50?

 

[skybluetony176]

So is the £39 billion in Article 50?

The withdrawal agreement is part of article 50.

 

[Grendel]

The withdrawal agreement is part of article 50.

So they were both agreed on the same day?

 

[skybluetony176]

So they were both agreed on the same day?

The negotiations lasted for 18months before it could be published in November last year. It’s almost 600 pages long. Have you been living in a cave or are you just pretending to be stupid?

 

[Grendel]

The negotiations lasted for 18months before it could be published in November last year. It’s almost 600 pages long. Have you been living in a cave or are you just pretending to be stupid?

So is the £39 billion linked to the terms of the withdrawal agreement?

 

[Grendel]

The negotiations lasted for 18months before it could be published in November last year. It’s almost 600 pages long. Have you been living in a cave or are you just pretending to be stupid?

Article 50 was signed in March 2017 wasn’t it Tony so as you say they are linked is that when the agreement for withdrawal was signed?

 

[skybluetony176]

Article 50 was signed in March 2017 wasn’t it Tony so as you say they are linked is that when the agreement for withdrawal was signed?

No, it was invoked not signed. The withdrawal agreement had to be negotiated as a result of invoking article 50. 18 months and 599 pages of negotiations later it was published so it could be debated before being accepted by parliament by way of a vote. It’s the process parliament agreed to when it voted to trigger article 50 in February 2017.

 

[Grendel]

No, it was invoked not signed. The withdrawal agreement had to be negotiated as a result of invoking article 50. 18 months and 599 pages of negotiations later it was published so it could be debated before being accepted by parliament by way of a vote. It’s the process parliament agreed to when it voted to trigger article 50 in February 2017.

So the 599 pages of negotiations are specific to a particular agreement?

 

[skybluetony176]

So the 599 pages of negotiations are specific to a particular agreement?

Jesus Christ just make your point.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Jesus Christ just make your point.

I think it’s the fact that 39bn is not mentioned as a figure and if he’s Jesus Christ I’m stopping my Christian faith

 

[Grendel]

I think it’s the fact that 39bn is not mentioned as a figure and if he’s Jesus Christ I’m stopping my Christian faith

How much of the £39 billion applied to the actual withdrawal agreement which means an extended amount of normal contributions to the budget?

 

[skybluetony176]

I think it’s the fact that 39bn is not mentioned as a figure and if he’s Jesus Christ I’m stopping my Christian faith

Sorry Pete. I didn’t mean to be blasphemous.

 

[skybluetony176]

How much of the £39 billion applied to the actual withdrawal agreement which means an extended amount of normal contributions to the budget?

It’s a settlement of obligations and the amount was agreed in the withdrawal negotiations that make up the withdrawal agreement. In fact IIRC it was the very first thing we agreed. You may remember David Davis famously saying it’s no where near £35B after it being suggested it was in the press conference before going in for the first day of negotiations and then came out and said yeah, it’s £35B.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Strange question...& not sure why you ask it?

Corbyn I believe is not hiding from press. Likely doing what his advisors tell him the same as Boris did.

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Although it was a reply to your quote it was more of a general observation of how it looks rather than specifically aimed at you.

The point being the partisanship involved. Many of those on the left who accuse Bolexanderis of hiding during the campaign don't think Corbyn is. Many of those on the right who think Corbyn is hiding don't think Boris was.

For what it's worth I think both are following their advisors, but I don't think either of them were overly disappointed at the advice for slightly differing reasons. Corbyn doesn't seem to enjoy attention and also becomes flustered when scrutinzed whereas Alexander craves the attention but despises scrutiny because he has no attention to detail - he likes soundbites. I don't believe either are working on policy - Corbyn because his main beliefs were formed 30-40 years ago and haven't changed and Boris because he's not got the attention span for it - it's shit he leaves other people to work out for him while he's off getting his Johnson into office (or something similar sounding).

 

[Grendel]

It’s a settlement of obligations and the amount was agreed in the withdrawal negotiations that make up the withdrawal agreement. In fact IIRC it was the very first thing we agreed. You may remember David Davis famously saying it’s no where near £35B after it being suggested it was in the press conference before going in for the first day of negotiations and then came out and said yeah, it’s £35B.

It also includes membership during the interim extension

 

[skybluetony176]

It also includes membership during the interim extension

It includes a lot of things. You’re still not making your point though.

 

[Grendel]

It includes a lot of things. You’re still not making your point though.

I clearly am - when do we leave the eu under the withdrawal agreement say in terms of free trade?

 

[skybluetony176]

I clearly am - when do we leave the eu under the withdrawal agreement say in terms of free trade?

The trade agreement is a separate thing to the withdrawal agreement.

 

[Grendel]

The trade agreement is a separate thing to the withdrawal agreement.

Er that is not anything to do with what I said?

 

[skybluetony176]

Er that is not anything to do with what I said?

Well then you need to make your point better because I really can’t see what else you can take from your post other than you’ve failed to understand that the trade agreement is separate from the withdrawal and the process as set out in article 50 is that the trade negotiations follow an agreed and sanctioned withdrawal agreement.

 

[Grendel]

Well then you need to make your point better because I really can’t see what else you can take from your post other than you’ve failed to understand that the trade agreement is separate from the withdrawal and the process as set out in article 50 is that the trade negotiations follow an agreed and sanctioned withdrawal agreement.

I’m asking when the free trade arrangement ends under the current withdrawal agreement on offer

 

[skybluetony176]

I’m asking when the free trade arrangement ends under the current withdrawal agreement on offer

Depends if we pass a withdrawal agreement through parliament or not. If we pass a withdrawal agreement we enter into a transitional period of 2 years IIRC, possibly more if an extension is agreed. This period sees a continuation of the current free trade agreement and is the period in which the future trade agreement is negotiated.

 

[Grendel]

Depends if we pass a withdrawal agreement through parliament or not. If we pass a withdrawal agreement we enter into a transitional period of 2 years IIRC, possibly more if an extension is agreed. This period sees a continuation of the current free trade agreement and is the period in which the future trade agreement is negotiated.

Is the £39 billion included in that arrangement Tony?

 

[skybluetony176]

Is the £39 billion included in that arrangement Tony?

Are you dizzy because you’re going around in circles. See previous reply where I talk about David Davis saying the divorce bill wasn’t £35B on his way into the negotiation and then coming out the meeting later that same day saying yeah it is £35B. Like I said IIRC the so called divorce bill was the first part of the withdrawal agreement to be agreed.

If you believe different spit it out instead of going around in circles not actually making a point.

 

[Grendel]

Are you dizzy because you’re going around in circles. See previous reply where I talk about David Davis saying the divorce bill wasn’t £35B on his way into the negotiation and then coming out the meeting later that same day saying yeah it is £35B. Like I said IIRC the so called divorce bill was the first part of the withdrawal agreement to be agreed.

If you believe different spit it out instead of going around in circles not actually making a point.

You got that off a link Tony which said what about when we leave the EU?

 

[skybluetony176]

You got that off a link Tony which said what about when we leave the EU?

Do you actually have a point to make or are you just lonelier than usual today?

 

[SkyblueBazza]

The negotiations lasted for 18months before it could be published in November last year. It’s almost 600 pages long. Have you been living in a cave or are you just pretending to be stupid?

In reality some might argue that until it is passed by the UK parliament - it is not an agreement. It is a proposal.

So it is as baffling as the mixed messages we get from the united front of the EU. Barnier says various things to suggest the EU stance is that it is not negotiable now - we have THE proposal, agree, stay or piss-off. Contrasting with the even French saying we must look at how we can work together moving forward, & our own parliament saying we don't like what you're offering so won't agree to it, but we will not leave without a deal!

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[skybluetony176]

In reality some might argue that until it is passed by the UK parliament - it is not an agreement. It is a proposal.

So it is as baffling as the mixed messages we get from the united front of the EU. Barnier says various things to suggest the EU stance is that it is not negotiable now - we have THE proposal, agree, stay or piss-off. Contrasting with the even French saying we must look at how we can work together moving forward, & our own parliament saying we don't like what you're offering so won't agree to it, but we will not leave without a deal!

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It was agreed by the government following negotiations which including brexiteers such as David Davis and Dominic Raab. Fortunately for them the so called by some traitor Gina Miller made sure that parliament had to ratify the withdrawal agreement giving Davis and Raab the opportunity to vote against the so called by some treasonous withdrawal agreement they’d been responsible for delivering. The funny thing is I’m not even making this up, it’s what actually happened.

 

[SIR ERNIE]

giving Davis and Raab the opportunity to vote against the so called by some treasonous withdrawal agreement they’d been responsible for delivering. The funny thing is I’m not even making this up, it’s what actually happened.

Well actually yes, you are making it up because both Davis and Raab resigned in succession specifically because they realised that the Agreement was being negotiated behind their backs by a team of May’s trusted remainer civil servants.

So neither of them were responsible for the Agreement which is why they voted against it.