Homophobic chanting (9 Viewers)

[fellatio_Martinez]

I admit that I gave the Gillingham manager a bit of stick at the game yesterday because he's obese.

When I was walking out of the game he confronted me and said "You're fattist!" to which I replied "No, I think you'll find that you're fattist"

 

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[Sick Boy]

Each person perceives their existence as an individual. We are not subsets of some Identity-Politik. Look at the macro - not the micro; I am not a number. Having written that - absolutely I condemn any prejudice against homosexuality.

What is wrong here is bullying. If you constantly chase the trend you'll be always fighting individual causes (which of course is by design from Seumas Milne and his political agenda to divide and conquer). IMO, the people driving this micro-agenda are Orwellian-quality frightening.

If you ignore this and turn a blind eye to it then it has the potential to lead to more widespread prejudice and bullying on an individual basis.

Personally I always have and always will call out true bullies on a wider and granular basis and actually challenge the behaviour, even when it goes against a majority.

 

[mrtrench]

And yes, this is no longer football. And, Nick, if you deem it necessary, delete the fuck out of my recent posts (two bottles of Cava and counting).

It really pisses me off - this intellectual-lite fuckwit philosophy of identity politics - and all the incentives for people to claim 'victimhood'.

I was bullied to fuck by wankers at secondary school - not at university - where finally people become accepted for their foibles. I am effeminate. I am intellectual (in a bad way). I am drunk. I am empathetic.

But I absolutely reject this cynical use of victim hood status to take the piss out of society. Fuck you - you cynical, wankers.

Will be sober tomorrow. Be nice.

 

[Grendel]

If you ignore this and turn a blind eye to it then it has the potential to lead to more widespread prejudice and bullying on an individual basis.

Personally I always have and always will call out true bullies on a wider and granular basis and actually challenge the behaviour, even when it goes against a majority.

So any bullying is not acceptable - ginger and bald also?

 

[Sick Boy]

And yes, this is no longer football. And, Nick, if you deem it necessary, delete the fuck out of my recent posts (two bottles of Cava and counting).

It really pisses me off - this intellectual-lite fuckwit philosophy of identity politics - and all the incentives for people to claim 'victimhood'.

I was bullied to fuck by wankers at secondary school - not at university - where finally people become accepted for their foibles. I am effeminate. I am intellectual (in a bad way). I am drunk. I am empathetic.

But I absolutely reject this cynical use of victim hood status to take the piss out of society. Fuck you - you cynical, wankers.

Will be sober tomorrow. Be nice.

Genuinely made me laugh out loud

 

[Sick Boy]

So any bullying is not acceptable - ginger and bald also?

If you want to condone people’s right to use gay taunts at a football match then fair enough. Your attitude is part of the problem and why we have to have campaigns against homophobia within the game and why there are no only gay players within the game.

 

[Grendel]

If you want to condone people’s right to use gay taunts at a football match then fair enough. Your attitude is part of the problem and why we have to have campaigns against homophobia within the game and why there are no only gay players within the game.

I don’t I’m asking you if taunts against other groups who believe they are victimised and traumatised is also acceptable and you are circling around it like a buzzard

 

[mrtrench]

And yes, this is no longer football. And, Nick, if you deem it necessary, delete the fuck out of my recent posts (two bottles of Cava and counting).

It really pisses me off - this intellectual-lite fuckwit philosophy of identity politics - and all the incentives for people to claim 'victimhood'.

I was bullied to fuck by wankers at secondary school - not at university - where finally people become accepted for their foibles. I am effeminate. I am intellectual (in a bad way). I am drunk. I am empathetic.

But I absolutely reject this cynical use of victim hood status to take the piss out of society. Fuck you - you cynical, wankers.

Will be sober tomorrow. Be nice.

And do you know where I was accepted for being short; effeminate and fucking good at maths? Investment banks! That's where they loved me... investment banks.

They don't give a shit what colour or sexuality you own. Although I reckon I may have done better if I were 4 inches taller.

Third bottle about to be opened.

Love and peace. Christ, I reckon we're going to be in the Championship next year. Fucking 20/1 still available. Fill your boots.

 

[Sick Boy]

I don’t I’m asking you if taunts against other groups who believe they are victimised and traumatised is also acceptable and you are circling around it like a buzzard

Again, we have openly bald and ginger people involved in the game. The point I’m trying to make is not that difficult to grasp.

 

[fellatio_Martinez]

Should we also stop singing "the referees a wanker" just in case he has a masturbation problem and his feelings might get hurt?

 

[Grendel]

Again, we have openly bald and ginger people involved in the game. The point I’m trying to make is not that difficult to grasp.

So it’s not about general phobia and trauma then?

So if players were openly gay you’d actually applaud if someone said “fuck of you queer bastard?”

Wow

 

[Sick Boy]

So it’s not about general phobia and trauma then?

So if players were openly gay you’d actually applaud if someone said “fuck of you queer bastard?”

Wow

Lol

 

[Grendel]

Also if people were bald or ginger they could not hide it but could still be massively traumatised after years of abuse and have counselling

Yet these aren’t real issues - this according to Sick Boy is banter

 

[Sick Boy]

Also if people were bald or ginger they could not hide it but could still be massively traumatised after years of abuse and have counselling

Yet these aren’t real issues - this according to Sick Boy is banter

Yeah, whatever.

All I’ve done is condemn chanting that I believe contributes towards the wider problem within the game and that puts it behind other sports and society in general.

You’re just belittling the issue, which is pretty shameful and a sad reflection upon you.

It just backs up my own belief even more that it’s an attitude within the sport and it’s going to be a long time until the sport is on par with the rest of society.

 

[Grendel]

Yeah, whatever.

All I’ve done is condemn chanting that I believe contributes towards the wider problem within the game and that puts it behind other sports and society in general.

You’re just belittling the issue, which is pretty shameful and a sad reflection upon you.

No like Mr trench I’m not - it’s you that is

 

[Evo1883]

No like Mr trench I’m not - it’s you that is

I just don't see how saying that you look gay in pink is seen as oppressive bigoted behaviour worthy of a 4 page thread tbh, but that's me.

Id expect this on the guardian or independent Facebook page but not on here

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Apart from Stephen Ireland, how many footballers have hid their bald head out of shame?

Rooney - he spent thousands to have the hair from his arse put on his head.

 

[SkyblueBazza]

Clearly tongue in cheek Barry.

Clear to some...just like those chanting clearly meant no harm?

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[Travs]

My two penneth, for what it’s worth...

Was it offensive...? not really, it’s just a pretty crap thing to chant all round really. I put it in the same category as people singing “Bob the Builder, What a Wanker” at that mascot thing at Cambridge United... I.e it’s basically sung by thickos, and I feel sorry for them that they actually think it is humour... if I’m offended by anything, it’s these chanters taking on the mantle of being our ‘hardcore’ (how far we have fallen since the West Terrace day’s...)

Should people be discriminated against because of sex, religion, hair colour, size, or indeed sexuality....? Of course not.

Should people be exempt from humour or jokes because of sex, religion, hair colour, size, or indeed sexuality...? I don’t think they should.

It’s not a pleasant or even remotely funny chant... but as I think mentioned by someone above... people who scream “fucking c**t” every two minutes, or constantly act like a foul mouthed dickhead in front of their own, or other people’s kids, at the match, are a good few degrees worse in my opinion...

 

[AStonesThrow]

It's a difficult one this - and by this, I mean bullying.

Personally, I don't get why certain types of bullying seem to get super-powers over other types. I imagine it's because generally, people aren't very bright (average IQ is 100!). So they find it easier to understand the micro specific stuff (racism; homophobia) rather than the macro: the underlying bad, which is some people bullying other people based upon some random prejudice.

I abhor all bullying equally: racism; homophobia; Islamophobia; taking the piss out of the guy with the gammy eye or a hair lip scar... And that's the point. It doesn't matter what attribute one is using as an excuse to bully. If it's bullying (more to follow) then it really doesn't matter what is being used as an excuse. So the question is rather, 'what is bullying?'

I feel like I need more time to consider this question. It's certainly one I shouldn't attempt after a bottle of cava. But, I'll take the risk. I think that aggression is the difference between piss-taking and bullying. But I've just shifted the difficult definition from 'bullying' to 'aggression'. Because 'aggression' can be subtle. One can deny someone a job because he is bald or trans and that is aggression - even if it's all done with a grin fuck ( a phrase an ex-boss of mine used: to grin at someone and mouth positive platitudes whilst fucking them career-wise).

Onto my second bottle - logic is going to deteriorate...

I'm going to split it into two parts now.

1. No economic impact
2. Economic impact

1. No Economic Impact. This is about making someone feel bad without actually impacting their life chances. It goes all the way from a snide comment to beating someone up without a hospital visit. I think that this has to be (as, I believe the internationally accepted definition of antisemitism is) all about the perception of the victim. A few chants in the terraces, even if intended in good-humour, are only bullying if the recipient feels abused. But now we open Pandora's Box, because the role of victim can be played disingenuously. And we have a number of people nowadays who have no humour and are perma-offended. Hard isn't it?

2. Economic Impact. So now we're talking about something that really impacts someone's life: such as being gay means they earn £200k less over their career, so they live in a worse flat; they have less expensive holidays etc.).

This is also hard - hard to prove or define I mean. There's a lot of publicity about the gender pay-gap - but again those bloody infuriating average 100 IQ people focus on the specific and not the macro. There most certainly is a gender pay-gap but it's far smaller when considering pay for specific roles - the implication being that women generally may choose professions which pay less well. And then we're into the whole free-market question which I'm assigning ultra vires for this post.

But is there also a race pay-gap? Personally, when hiring I always gave the benefit of doubt to the most 'disadvantaged' person I had interviewed... which once led me to hire a very short Indian lady over an average height Indian man. But there probably is such a prejudice (I don't study social sciences so I don't have stats to hand - but then again I value so lowly the intellect of social scientists that I may not even trust their findings).

I think there are other pay-gaps that may be even more dramatic. Here's one (as a man below 5' 7" in height). There is definitely a pay gap related to height. But then, looking back (and I was frustrated at the time) - how much of the height thing actually resulted in a superior gravitas or confidence or ability to inspire? I don't know.



I am very aware that I've written a lot of words and probably nothing of value. And if you want to respond that I'm just a wanker, I'll get it. If I must boil it down to a few thoughts:

- There is a very fine line between 'bantz' / humour and bullying. And that line is defined by the perception of the victim.
- Offence by the victim does not prove intent by the initiator.
- Economic bullying is more serious but much harder to define or prove.

And finally, my own philosophy for life: just be nice to other people. Being nice may include piss-taking if you feel they are getting it as a joke and are giving it back. But it certainly doesn't include making someone else feel bad. That's horrible.

What a greatly formulated and constructed viewpoint and theory. I completely agree with it all, as humans, no matter how hard we try not to, we judge people on what we see and experience with them. If you're recruiting for a role, and you have a small Asian lady who speaks broken English but will work hard (although unproven), a fully qualified, quiet Nigerian man, and Mr Tall Dark and Handsome with the gift of the gab, a native speaker of the english language and complete wordsmith. On first judgement, and after conversation, most of us would choose the latter, entirely based upon race, language, ease of communication and instant rapport, and self image/confidence.

A lot of people were raised with a semi-archaic ideology of the world we live in, and the people around them. This is regarding homosexuality, race etc
The world and its ways of thinking has changed, differences have become widely accepted and ultimately, nobody has a choice to be any of these things that we could discriminate against.

100% agree with the last part too, be nice to everyone. Give positivity out to the universe, and you will receive positivity back tenfold. We all like a laugh and a joke but there is a line. Look past people's differences/sexuality/disability, and remember that behind any of that, there is a person.


As a sub note, Mr Trench, do you work in recruitment, and do you have any jobs available where you are?

 

[AStonesThrow]

On a lighter note...

How does a feminist change a lightbulb?

She holds it up to the socket and waits for the world to revolve around her

 

[SkyblueBazza]

Yeah, whatever.

All I’ve done is condemn chanting that I believe contributes towards the wider problem within the game and that puts it behind other sports and society in general.

You’re just belittling the issue, which is pretty shameful and a sad reflection upon you.

It just backs up my own belief even more that it’s an attitude within the sport and it’s going to be a long time until the sport is on par with the rest of society.

But see the florets joke was a winner & not really widely condemned by torret sufferers because it is more a play on word than mocking their condition.

Absolutely it is offensive & produces a similar impact on a ginger, fat or short person for them to be mocked or have said feature to be pointedly commented upon.



Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

 

[PurpleBin]

What was more horrific was a bunch of scallies chanting get your tits out to a blonde lady on the pitch pre game against Southend...with her husband....and child.

 

[SkyblueBazza]

No like Mr trench I’m not - it’s you that is

No...you are belittling the ginger/bald people etc. by not acknoweldging the impact such mocking can have on them

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[oakey]

Have a look at CCFC online shop.
There is one item (only one!) under Leisurewear > Women's leisure.

Coventry Signature Cap - Womens

Discuss

 

[Sick Boy]

But see the florets joke was a winner & not really widely condemned by torret sufferers because it is more a play on word than mocking their condition.

Absolutely it is offensive & produces a similar impact on a ginger, fat or short person for them to be mocked or have said feature to be pointedly commented upon.



Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

The girl I was talking about complained about ‘the way I clicked my mouse’. I’m not the one who has tried to justify another sort of abuse of a person.

 

[ccfcway]

. I put it in the same category as people singing “Bob the Builder, What a Wanker” at that mascot thing at Cambridge United....

I wouldn’t . Two very different things to me

 

[Sick Boy]

I wouldn’t . Two very different things to me

Come on the historical persecution and discriminate against the LGBT community and Bob the Builder is definitely comparable.

 

[Travs]

Come on the historical persecution and discriminate against the LGBT community and Bob the Builder is definitely comparable.

My point being that they weren’t setting out with the specific aim of “discriminating” against the guy in the pink... it was, (in their eyes only), humour.... as was the crap song against Bob the Builder or whoever he was...

If they’d sung “who’s the ginger/slaphead/fatty in the pink....” would that have been any different...?

I’m certainly not trying to defend it, it is a sign of the times (and the generally poor level of intelligence among an element of football fans) that people think constant foul language, abuse, etc is passable just because they’re at football... but the fact that this very thread is debating whether or not it was outright discrimination or not, is a sign that there is a grey area... so I don’t think we should be stringing the perpetrators up...

What about Shit On The Villa... do we really think people who support them lot are beneath contempt just because they happen to support their local team.... or Yam Yam Yam Yam (another shit chant by the way), because of their accent... or Dirty Northern Bastards.... and so forth...

 

[Sick Boy]

My point being that they weren’t setting out with the specific aim of “discriminating” against the guy in the pink... it was, (in their eyes only), humour.... as was the crap song against Bob the Builder or whoever he was...

If they’d sung “who’s the ginger/slaphead/fatty in the pink....” would that have been any different...?

I’m certainly not trying to defend it, it is a sign of the times (and the generally poor level of intelligence among an element of football fans) that people think constant foul language, abuse, etc is passable just because they’re at football... but the fact that this very thread is debating whether or not it was outright discrimination or not, is a sign that there is a grey area... so I don’t think we should be stringing the perpetrators up...

What about Shit On The Villa... do we really think people who support them lot are beneath contempt just because they happen to support their local team.... or Yam Yam Yam Yam (another shit chant by the way), because of their accent... or Dirty Northern Bastards.... and so forth...

The point is that the term ‘gay’ is used as an insult and as a derogatory slur in this regard.

Maybe I’m in the minority and think it’s wrong but for me it’s thoroughly depressing and shows that football is a long way behind society in general.

 

[oscillatewildly]

My point being that they weren’t setting out with the specific aim of “discriminating” against the guy in the pink... it was, (in their eyes only), humour.... as was the crap song against Bob the Builder or whoever he was...

If they’d sung “who’s the ginger/slaphead/fatty in the pink....” would that have been any different...?

I’m certainly not trying to defend it, it is a sign of the times (and the generally poor level of intelligence among an element of football fans) that people think constant foul language, abuse, etc is passable just because they’re at football... but the fact that this very thread is debating whether or not it was outright discrimination or not, is a sign that there is a grey area... so I don’t think we should be stringing the perpetrators up...

What about Shit On The Villa... do we really think people who support them lot are beneath contempt just because they happen to support their local team.... or Yam Yam Yam Yam (another shit chant by the way), because of their accent... or Dirty Northern Bastards.... and so forth...

Don't forget "The wheels on your house go round and round". Aimed at supporters of WHUFC, by way of insinuation that large amounts of their support hail from the travelling community.
I've got a Tourettes themed joke by the way (my own material - thought it up a couple of years ago) But I'm not sure it's appropriate now.

 

[mrtrench]

What a greatly formulated and constructed viewpoint and theory. I completely agree with it all, as humans, no matter how hard we try not to, we judge people on what we see and experience with them. If you're recruiting for a role, and you have a small Asian lady who speaks broken English but will work hard (although unproven), a fully qualified, quiet Nigerian man, and Mr Tall Dark and Handsome with the gift of the gab, a native speaker of the english language and complete wordsmith. On first judgement, and after conversation, most of us would choose the latter, entirely based upon race, language, ease of communication and instant rapport, and self image/confidence.

A lot of people were raised with a semi-archaic ideology of the world we live in, and the people around them. This is regarding homosexuality, race etc
The world and its ways of thinking has changed, differences have become widely accepted and ultimately, nobody has a choice to be any of these things that we could discriminate against.

100% agree with the last part too, be nice to everyone. Give positivity out to the universe, and you will receive positivity back tenfold. We all like a laugh and a joke but there is a line. Look past people's differences/sexuality/disability, and remember that behind any of that, there is a person.


As a sub note, Mr Trench, do you work in recruitment, and do you have any jobs available where you are?

Nah, I was an IT manager, for various Investment Banks in that London. And I was judging the applicants against their ability to code in RPG/400 (it was a long time ago).

Still. Love and Peace. I hope the guy from Bradford that didn't get the job did well (he said multiple times in the interview 'flip side was...') and I love the fact that Asha went on to have a wonderful career. Last met her 5 years ago at a funeral. And she was still blooming.

 

[SeaSeeEffCee]

Ah yes, I too remember the horror stories of people being scared to come out as fat/bald/ginger in fear that they might be ostracised by their community, assaulted or potentially even killed. What a valid and in no way demeaning comparison.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

My two penneth, for what it’s worth...

Was it offensive...? not really, it’s just a pretty crap thing to chant all round really. I put it in the same category as people singing “Bob the Builder, What a Wanker” at that mascot thing at Cambridge United... I.e it’s basically sung by thickos, and I feel sorry for them that they actually think it is humour... if I’m offended by anything, it’s these chanters taking on the mantle of being our ‘hardcore’ (how far we have fallen since the West Terrace day’s...)

Should people be discriminated against because of sex, religion, hair colour, size, or indeed sexuality....? Of course not.

Should people be exempt from humour or jokes because of sex, religion, hair colour, size, or indeed sexuality...? I don’t think they should.

It’s not a pleasant or even remotely funny chant... but as I think mentioned by someone above... people who scream “fucking c**t” every two minutes, or constantly act like a foul mouthed dickhead in front of their own, or other people’s kids, at the match, are a good few degrees worse in my opinion...

Well the guy wasn’t gay and why is it ok to use gay as a derogatory term??

 

[Travs]

Never said it was ok.

Already made my views pretty clear in my two posts above, and I don’t feel the need to expand on my viewpoint...

Certainly not right that foul language and abuse is thrown around like confetti at grounds... but I don’t find calling a grown man “gay boy” in the same league as telling a woman on the pitch to “get your tits out”.... sometimes it’s who you aim the insult at, not the contents of the insult...

And this is the problem, everyone has differing opinions on what is or isn’t acceptable.... my views are above and I don’t see much in there that singles me out as a raging homophobe.... (although as someone who themselves suffers from a nightmare combination of being simultaneously ginger and bald, please feel free to throw some insults my way)