Bury gone (7 Viewers)

[harvey098]

That assumes Mansfield themselves spent within their means which is doubtful

Well they’re paying their staff and can field a team but instead promotion went to a club that could do neither.

 

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[Sbarcher]

BBC 5live clearly do not see the irony of reporting on Bury not having a pot to piss in, then moving directly to poor Alexis Sanchez having to survive on £400 grand a week.

Be careful what you wish for, people - Hoffmann, Elliott, et al offer no guarantees of being any better than Dale. SISU and Otium make very little money from owning us, having put quite a lot of money in.

Read somewhere recently (maybe somewhere on here?) that since Sanchez started getting splinters on his arse, he's received £41m, yes, £41,000,000 in wages. I understand the Bury debt was £2.7m. Of course they should have been prudent, but just shows how the PL are sucking the real money from the game.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Not their fault the club wasn't run properly. Bury had a advantage over other clubs fighting to get promoted out of L2. The other clubs actually thought about paying their players and set their budget accordingly, and for whatever reason, Bury didn't.

I feel sorry for their supporters but the Premier League aren't to blame.

Look at most of the clubs who got into the top flight lately. Some completely took the piss while others were still losing hand over fist. They got away with it and now get obscene TV money to cover their tracks.

Wolves get praise for losing over £50 million in one season, Bury go bust for pursuing essentially the same strategy one league lower. The culture in this game is totally wrong and by giving the top flight so much and crumbs to the rest it exacerbates the problem.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

the current system is working surely

And you insult others’ intelligence when you come out with this crap.

Even in the PL 7 clubs still managed to produce a loss while a few more scraped a tiny profit. Championship debt remains nearly £1 billion with a few clubs close to £100 million alone and relying on their owners to cancel it like at Leicester or for it never to be called in like Brighton. Hardly any of them make a profit and wages remain near 100% of turnover. FFP has been replaced with a less stringent sustainability measure to provide even less incentive to manage the books. It’s a house built on sand

 

[ceetee]

I think they only had 3 professionals left and one signed for Rotherham yesterday.

How could he do that? Or is he on loan?
It's outside the transfer window and players are only free agents if they leave before the end of the window

 

[Nick]

How could he do that? Or is he on loan?
It's outside the transfer window and players are only free agents if they leave before the end of the window

The window is still open isn't it?

 

[OffenhamSkyBlue]

How could he do that? Or is he on loan?
It's outside the transfer window and players are only free agents if they leave before the end of the window

Wonder if there is a specific rule for clubs that have been booted out? But they can still apply to join another league, so the players will still be registered with a club (albeit not in the FL).

 

[ceetee]

How many times have you heard people on CWR phone-in, and on here, say you have to "speculate to accumulate".

Well Bury did that but all they accumulated was debt, which opened the door for a "dodgy owner" to come in.

SISU wouldn't be CCFC owners now if the club had been run responsibly

But supporters don't want clubs to be run responsibly. They want owners to pump in millions even when it's not sustainable, Bolton being a classic case.

 

[ceetee]

The window is still open isn't it?

Only if it's a loan

 

[Nick]

How many times have you heard people on CWR phone-in, and on here, say you have to "speculate to accumulate".

Well Bury did that but all they accumulated was debt, which opened the door for a "dodgy owner" to come in.

SISU wouldn't be CCFC owners now if the club had been run responsibly

But supporters don't want clubs to be run responsibly. They want owners to pump in millions even when it's not sustainable, Bolton being a classic case.

Exactly, our fans will still demand money being thrown in then shout fuck the efl.

 

[skyblueelephant76]

Interesting to see the knock on implications now.

All the clubs in the league will now have to refund season ticket money for one less game that has already been banked. Budgets will also have been based on having the Bury match so will be affected.

 

[Nick]

Interesting to see the knock on implications now.

All the clubs in the league will now have to refund season ticket money for one less game that has already been banked. Budgets will also have been based on having the Bury match so will be affected.

Will they have to refund? Are people that petty?

 

[Liquid Gold]

Interesting to see the knock on implications now.

All the clubs in the league will now have to refund season ticket money for one less game that has already been banked. Budgets will also have been based on having the Bury match so will be affected.

Why would clubs have to refund a portion of season ticket money?

You pay for all home league games and that's still what you're getting.

 

[Manchester_sky_blue]

So what happens to all their players now. Are they suddenly all free agents?

Believe so. Contracts will become void as the club is in breach

 

[oldskyblue58]

Whilst i agree there is a disparity between the PL and the rest it is not the reason clubs fail lower down the pyramid. The vast majority of clubs have very little or no chance of getting to the PL, it is not even a dream for them but complete fantasy. So what do they contribute to the PL product that means a bigger (even any) slice of that action. The biggest contribution would seem to be a limited number of players for which they get paid

There is one main reason plus a major contributing factor

Clubs fail because they are badly run. That means the directors and owners fail in their duty to protect the well being of the company. Everyone assumes that yes they should spend money on the off chance of success but the reality is that should only be done within the means available to them. Does that mean owners can not put money in no, but it should mean that money can only be put in as new shares or a donation (ie non returnable). If that creates living within means that doesn't not allow progression higher for some - sorry but that's just the way it is ..... surely the healthy survival of each club is more important than a season or two of boom then bust and extinction. Do many owners have the balls to stick to their guns under massive pressure? Do many owners take their business skills gained away from football in to each club board room or do they choose to leave good practice & sense at the door?

The contributing factor is the unreasonable expectations of many fans for their team. That creates huge pressure, massages or destroys the egos that control each club. Until that is managed properly then you will get owners gambling on being a hero to the fans to bring success at their club that is built on sand.

Unless the EFL and its members address their own fundamental problems then blaming the PL is really just papering over the cracks

 

[chiefdave]

Why would clubs have to refund a portion of season ticket money?

Probably just give season ticket holders a free ticket to the Southampton U21 cup game. Might boost the attendance a bit and would mean people can't complain they haven't had the number of games they expected.

 

[Manchester_sky_blue]

Agree entirely with @oldskyblue58

Fans have forgotten and/or been conditioned to believe that you can't enjoy football outside of the premier League.

 

[Irish Sky Blue]

I

How many times have you heard people on CWR phone-in, and on here, say you have to "speculate to accumulate".

Well Bury did that but all they accumulated was debt, which opened the door for a "dodgy owner" to come in.

SISU wouldn't be CCFC owners now if the club had been run responsibly

But supporters don't want clubs to be run responsibly. They want owners to pump in millions even when it's not sustainable, Bolton being a classic case.

I think that this is a bit of a myth. Only an irresponsible minority of fans would ask for this. I think mot fans just want to see their club being run in a responsible and sustainable way, by owners who love the club and who make decisions that are based on what is best for the club, not on what is best for anonymous and invisible investors.

 

[HuckerbyDublinWhelan]

I

I think that this is a bit of a myth. Only an irresponsible minority of fans would ask for this. I think mot fans just want to see their club being run in a responsible and sustainable way, by owners who love the club and who make decisions that are based on what is best for the club, not on what is best for anonymous and invisible investors.

I don’t know, remember when Westwood, King and Gunnarsson left - we brought in two new keepers and Cody McDonald and our fans were moaning we weren’t bringing in other players.

Evidently, this was when the finances started to be a struggle for SISU and this was the beginning of SISU OUT!

 

[OffenhamSkyBlue]

Whilst i agree there is a disparity between the PL and the rest it is not the reason clubs fail lower down the pyramid. The vast majority of clubs have very little or no chance of getting to the PL, it is not even a dream for them but complete fantasy. So what do they contribute to the PL product that means a bigger (even any) slice of that action. The biggest contribution would seem to be a limited number of players for which they get paid

There is one main reason plus a major contributing factor

Clubs fail because they are badly run. That means the directors and owners fail in their duty to protect the well being of the company. Everyone assumes that yes they should spend money on the off chance of success but the reality is that should only be done within the means available to them. Does that mean owners can not put money in no, but it should mean that money can only be put in as new shares or a donation (ie non returnable). If that creates living within means that doesn't not allow progression higher for some - sorry but that's just the way it is ..... surely the healthy survival of each club is more important than a season or two of boom then bust and extinction. Do many owners have the balls to stick to their guns under massive pressure? Do many owners take their business skills gained away from football in to each club board room or do they choose to leave good practice & sense at the door?

The contributing factor is the unreasonable expectations of many fans for their team. That creates huge pressure, massages or destroys the egos that control each club. Until that is managed properly then you will get owners gambling on being a hero to the fans to bring success at their club that is built on sand.

Unless the EFL and its members address their own fundamental problems then blaming the PL is really just papering over the cracks

I fully understand that i may not be very popular in saying this, but since being in administration in 2013, the points that OSB states as the principles of good ownership have been adopted by SISU, and we have been relatively stable financially (but poorer achievers as a result), compared to many, and despite a number of challenges. We still have a club!

 

[HuckerbyDublinWhelan]

I fully understand that i may not be very popular in saying this, but since being in administration in 2013, the points that OSB states as the principles of good ownership have been adopted by SISU, and we have been relatively stable financially (but poorer achievers as a result), compared to many, and despite a number of challenges. We still have a club!

Annoying thing is - if we had stable revenues we’d easily compete at the top end of this league.

 

[Irish Sky Blue]

I don’t know, remember when Westwood, King and Gunnarsson left - we brought in two new keepers and Cody McDonald and our fans were moaning we weren’t bringing in other players.

Evidently, this was when the finances started to be a struggle for SISU and this was the beginning of SISU OUT!

If this forum is a representative body of our fan base, there are very few if any posts asking for the speculate to accumulate model.

 

[Irish Sky Blue]

I fully understand that i may not be very popular in saying this, but since being in administration in 2013, the points that OSB states as the principles of good ownership have been adopted by SISU, and we have been relatively stable financially (but poorer achievers as a result), compared to many, and despite a number of challenges. We still have a club!

This goes back to the point I made above. I don't think the decisions Sisu have made have ever been about the well being of our club. The way they run it is for the benefit of their investers, not the club and certainly not the fans.

 

[Liquid Gold]

If this forum is a representative body of our fan base, there are very few if any posts asking for the speculate to accumulate model.

Plenty have said that we've received £x for Chaplin and Bayliss but only spent it on Godden asking where the rest of the cash has gone without acknowledging it's being put into the running of the club preventing us falling into a Bury situation.

 

[HuckerbyDublinWhelan]

This goes back to the point I made above. I don't think the decisions Sisu have made have ever been about the well being of our club. The way they run it is for the benefit of their investers, not the club and certainly not the fans.

Maybe not - but it does show that they need and want the club to be somewhat successful. Not for the fans - but for the investors.

Currently, we’re a long term home ground with normal revenues away from having a well settled football club.

People have to realise that unfortunately football clubs are ran for the investors not us these days

 

[fernandopartridge]

Agree entirely with @oldskyblue58

Fans have forgotten and/or been conditioned to believe that you can't enjoy football outside of the premier League.

....and also got into the habit of watching football on TV over attending matches to some extent, it's easy to make the 'choice' if you live in Bury (and all the other boroughs of GM) to support one of the two Manchester clubs, you'll see them play quite a lot without ever having to attend

 

[Irish Sky Blue]

Plenty have said that we've received £x for Chaplin and Bayliss but only spent it on Godden asking where the rest of the cash has gone without acknowledging it's being put into the running of the club preventing us falling into a Bury situation.

There are always a few that would say this. The vast majority just want there club to be well run and to have a plan for the way forward. You can definitely see that Robins has a plan and a policy and it seems to be working.
What is our plan as a club? At the moment it would seem to be sit tight until the legal action has run it’s course.

 

[Irish Sky Blue]

Maybe not - but it does show that they need and want the club to be somewhat successful. Not for the fans - but for the investors.

Currently, we’re a long term home ground with normal revenues away from having a well settled football club.

People have to realise that unfortunately football clubs are ran for the investors not us these days

Maybe then the model needs to change and that football clubs should be seen as community assets, run for and by the community that formed them. (Perhaps should apply to rugby clubs too to stop anymore franchise Wasps type moves happening). The only way I can see this happening is by giving fans a majority share of the club as is the model in Germany.

 

[Nick]

Maybe then the model needs to change and that football clubs should be seen as community assets, run for and by the community that formed them. (Perhaps should apply to rugby clubs too to stop anymore franchise Wasps type moves happening). The only way I can see this happening is by giving fans a majority share of the club as is the model in Germany.

How do you implement that?

 

[HuckerbyDublinWhelan]

Maybe then the model needs to change and that football clubs should be seen as community assets, run for and by the community that formed them. (Perhaps should apply to rugby clubs too to stop anymore franchise Wasps type moves happening). The only way I can see this happening is by giving fans a majority share of the club as is the model in Germany.

That would be impossible to implement, further to this - our trust would run the club into the ground.

I don’t get the clamour for the German model. You’d never get a Leicester situation over there.

Bayern are the only team out their with the occasional Dortmund season

 

[Liquid Gold]

there are very few if any

There are always a few that would say this.

 

[Irish Sky Blue]

Can you give examples of posts on here calling for money the club hasn’t got to be spent on the team?

 

[Irish Sky Blue]

That would be impossible to implement, further to this - our trust would run the club into the ground.

I don’t get the clamour for the German model. You’d never get a Leicester situation over there.

Bayern are the only team out their with the occasional Dortmund season

Since the implementation of the PL, how many Leicester situations have we had? (Only Leicester as far as I can remember. Blackburn might be given as another example, but they were bankrolled by Jack Walker). In Germany there are only two likely winners of their league. How many likely winners of the PL are there this season. Probably only 2 in contention.Hard to see past the current big 6 for any future winners, so the PL is not an example of a league that anyone can win.
This is beside the point really as the purpose of new leadership models should be about safeguarding the very existence of clubs and to stop any future movement away from their town or city. No more Wimbledon to MK or us to Northampton.

 

[HuckerbyDublinWhelan]

Since the implementation of the PL, how many Leicester situations have we had? (Only Leicester as far as I can remember. Blackburn might be given as another example, but they were bankrolled by Jack Walker). In Germany there are only two likely winners of their league. How many likely winners of the PL are there this season. Probably only 2 in contention.Hard to see past the current big 6 for any future winners, so the PL is not an example of a league that anyone can win.
This is beside the point really as the purpose of new leadership models should be about safeguarding the very existence of clubs and to stop any future movement away from their town or city. No more Wimbledon to MK or us to Northampton.

6 is still better than the occasional 2. the ability to be bankrolled by a rich benefactor is better than Germany.

The German model and league is geared towards helping the international side. We as a nation don’t have that loyalty to England that we do to our clubs

Also going back to the point about stadiums - how does it help us, we’d be paying 1.2 million a year and heading towards oblivion without SISU - the trust would be too busy patting themselves on the back running the club whilst kissing Duggins’ arse saying we have no option but to pay

 

[Irish Sky Blue]

The German model can’t be impossible to implement or they wouldn’t have been able to do it!
Perhaps it would require a change of league rules whereby the next time a club changes hands, it must be guaranteed that 51% is owned by the fans.