The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (60 Viewers)

[Deleted member 4439]

As BSB has said, there's a lot to say about "feeling the quality, never mind the width" when it comes down to discussing employment rates. Even with that being said, Thatcher and Major stand out as having presided over some pretty impressive levels and rates of unemployment. Thatcher in particular. Ding Dong.

 

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[Astute]

So you’re basing it on individual people.

Wow.

If you genuinely believe that outside of Brexiteers and the UK there are people placing blame on the EU for all of this, then you really are off your head.

The lengths you will go to trying to make out that I have said something that I haven't is unbelievable.

Come on then. Yet again you couldn't show where I said countries and not every day people like yourself and I. Now you have gone off on another one which you won't be able to show where I have said it because I haven't. And I am supposed to be off my head for saying what I haven't said now.

I suppose I will have highly praised BJ next like when Schmmee praised May for doing an amazing job. And you agreed with him. Yet not one of you has said why you think May did an amazing job.

Then you wonder why I call out people for their lies and misinformation frequently.

 

[Sick Boy]

The lengths you will go to trying to make out that I have said something that I haven't is unbelievable.

Come on then. Yet again you couldn't show where I said countries and not every day people like yourself and I. Now you have gone off on another one which you won't be able to show where I have said it because I haven't. And I am supposed to be off my head for saying what I haven't said now.

I suppose I will have highly praised BJ next like when Schmmee praised May for doing an amazing job. And you agreed with him. Yet not one of you has said why you think May did an amazing job.

Then you wonder why I call out people for their lies and misinformation frequently.

Your statement is quite frankly absurd and is impossible to prove and is based upon your opinion.

Everyday people like you and I are reflected by the general mood of a country.

As I said though, name somewhere where there is anti EU sentiment growing outside of the UK based upon the EU’s actions.

Go on, back it up for a change. Where is this happening?

I’m actually shocked you’ve moved your family over to the EU when you seem to spend so much time on here ranting about it.

I think Brexit is a disaster but actually suggested an alternative in the EEA route as a compromise and that would have been sensible in the long term, whereas you’ve just spent the last few years ranting about the EU and remain voters, while claiming to see the POV of both sides while changing your mind at various occasions.

Nothing wrong in that though of course, it’ll be one of the most defining moments in our lives.

I don’t attack your posts or call you out because it’s you but because of your inconsistencies and contradictions in what you post.

 

[Astute]

Your statement is quite frankly absurd and is impossible to prove and is based upon your opinion.

Everyday people like you and I are reflected by the general mood of a country.

As I said though, name somewhere where there is anti EU sentiment growing outside of the UK based upon the EU’s actions.

Go on, back it up for a change. Where is this happening?

I’m actually shocked you’ve moved your family over to the EU when you seem to spend so much time on here ranting about it.

I think Brexit is a disaster but actually suggested an alternative in the EEA route as a compromise and that would have been sensible in the long term, whereas you’ve just spent the last few years ranting about the EU and remain voters, while claiming to see the POV of both sides while changing your mind at various occasions.

Nothing wrong in that though of course, it’ll be one of the most defining moments in our lives.

I don’t attack your posts or call you out because it’s you but because of your inconsistencies and contradictions in what you post.

You are full of shit and getting worse. Yes you have finally got me wound up with your constant bullshit on what I am supposed to have said. Yet you never show where I have said the words you say I have. That is because I never have done. All you do is put another load of bullshit together like this post I am replying to.

So I ask again. Why did you agree with Shmmeee when he said May had done an amazing job? Because all you ever did was have a go at her. It just shows you don't care how much you contradict yourself to have a go at me or others.

You don't want a debate. You just want to dictate to everyone what they should think.

 

[SkyblueBazza]

Your statement is quite frankly absurd and is impossible to prove and is based upon your opinion.

Everyday people like you and I are reflected by the general mood of a country.

As I said though, name somewhere where there is anti EU sentiment growing outside of the UK based upon the EU’s actions.

Go on, back it up for a change. Where is this happening?

I’m actually shocked you’ve moved your family over to the EU when you seem to spend so much time on here ranting about it.

I think Brexit is a disaster but actually suggested an alternative in the EEA route as a compromise and that would have been sensible in the long term, whereas you’ve just spent the last few years ranting about the EU and remain voters, while claiming to see the POV of both sides while changing your mind at various occasions.

Nothing wrong in that though of course, it’ll be one of the most defining moments in our lives.

I don’t attack your posts or call you out because it’s you but because of your inconsistencies and contradictions in what you post.

A survey carried out in April 2018 for the European Parliament by Kantar Public consulting found that support for the EU in Germany (and the UK) had dropped by about 2% since the previous survey.

And it is ironic isn't it that you say you are shocked by Astute moving his family to an EU country given the time he spends on here ranting about it...especially since you have moved to an EU country, & spend so much time ranting about Brexit?

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[djr8369]

You are full of shit and getting worse. Yes you have finally got me wound up with your constant bullshit on what I am supposed to have said. Yet you never show where I have said the words you say I have. That is because I never have done. All you do is put another load of bullshit together like this post I am replying to.

So I ask again. Why did you agree with Shmmeee when he said May had done an amazing job? Because all you ever did was have a go at her. It just shows you don't care how much you contradict yourself to have a go at me or others.

You don't want a debate. You just want to dictate to everyone what they should think.

What are you even arguing? You could have just said you didn’t mean countries but large groups of people grouped socially and economically. The reasonable thing to ask in reply to your original point was to suggest a country unhappy with the EU as governments and MEPs of said countries are the ones acting on behalf of individuals.



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[djr8369]

On a lighter note, I’ve just set the fire alarm off by burning toast as I was catching up on the thread while sat on the toilet rather than paying attention to the kitchen. I reckon the government would spin that as “huge progress” being made towards achieving breakfast.


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[djr8369]

Thought this was project fear?


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[Grendel]

Thought this was project fear?


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You do realise he’s trying to actually aim that at the Eu automotive suppliers as much as anything else?

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

A survey carried out in April 2018 for the European Parliament by Kantar Public consulting found that support for the EU in Germany (and the UK) had dropped by about 2% since the previous survey.

And it is ironic isn't it that you say you are shocked by Astute moving his family to an EU country given the time he spends on here ranting about it...especially since you have moved to an EU country, & spend so much time ranting about Brexit?

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In other words, a change within the margin of error. The EU just wants to know what the hell we’re doing so they can prepare either way. It’s us that needs to act, not them

 

[djr8369]

You do realise he’s trying to actually aim that at the Eu automotive suppliers as much as anything else?

Are EU automotive suppliers involved in the negotiations?

You do realise, as usual, you’re diverting rather than face up to any failure by the leavers?


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[Sick Boy]

A survey carried out in April 2018 for the European Parliament by Kantar Public consulting found that support for the EU in Germany (and the UK) had dropped by about 2% since the previous survey.

And it is ironic isn't it that you say you are shocked by Astute moving his family to an EU country given the time he spends on here ranting about it...especially since you have moved to an EU country, & spend so much time ranting about Brexit?

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It’s quite different to what he claimed that they were angry due to the EU ‘treatment’ of the UK.

No not really, he spends time actually ranting about the EU. I think Brexit is a terrible idea but accept a compromise needs (needed now) to be made, hence why I said about the EEA option.

 

[Grendel]

Are EU automotive suppliers involved in the negotiations?

You do realise, as usual, you’re diverting rather than face up to any failure by the leavers?


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No I’m stating the fact is he is saying Eu suppliers will not be able to distribute goods through. Some if them are not huge and some have well over half their revenue from uk automotive suppliers so they will go down very quickly. Shame the Eu are happy to destroy lives to flatter their own egos

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

No I’m stating the fact is he is saying Eu suppliers will not be able to distribute goods through. Some if them are not huge and some have well over half their revenue from uk automotive suppliers so they will go down very quickly. Shame the Eu are happy to destroy lives to flatter their own egos

Oh, you’re back. Want to carry on the economic debate?

 

[Sick Boy]

What are you even arguing? You could have just said you didn’t mean countries but large groups of people grouped socially and economically. The reasonable thing to ask in reply to your original point was to suggest a country unhappy with the EU as governments and MEPs of said countries are the ones acting on behalf of individuals.



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The funniest thing is that he claims that others stifle debate on this thread when just the other day he started going on at @fernandopartridge about some bizarre incident away at Bradford.

 

[djr8369]

No I’m stating the fact is he is saying Eu suppliers will not be able to distribute goods through. Some if them are not huge and some have well over half their revenue from uk automotive suppliers so they will go down very quickly. Shame the Eu are happy to destroy lives to flatter their own egos

No the fact is he’s stating UK automotive companies rely on those supply chains. That is what he is stating. What you are stating as fact is what you are inferring (accurately) from that.

They will go down very quickly. As will the U.K. automotive companies. It’s a shame the U.K. government are happy to destroy lives to gain the votes of the minority of the population who think no deal is a good idea.




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[SkyblueBazza]

In other words, a change within the margin of error. The EU just wants to know what the hell we’re doing so they can prepare either way. It’s us that needs to act, not them

Why are you telling me this?

Both sides need to look at the situation & put their heads together to arrive at a solution & acceptable deal. That is something I have said will happen all along as no deal is in nobody's interest.

What I do agree with Bojo on is that by taking no deal off the table (or out of the equation if you prefer that term) - it ties your own hands in negotiations...which is why Bojo has said by pressuring for a deal only exit it makes it more likely we don't get an acceptable deal!

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[djr8369]

What I do agree with Bojo on is that by taking no deal off the table (or out of the equation if you prefer that term) - it ties your own hands in negotiations...which is why Bojo has said by pressuring for a deal only exit it makes it more likely we don't get an acceptable deal!

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Bazza, I don’t agree. No deal will damage us more than the EU. The EU are more prepared for no deal than we are.

The idea we can play chicken with the EU around no deal is, I think, extremely misguided. Not least by the fact that (as acknowledged by leavers) you are also playing chicken with parliament and at least half of the population of the U.K.



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[Grendel]

Oh, you’re back. Want to carry on the economic debate?

Sure can. How would you cope with a run on the pound which would happen if Gezza gets in? He’s already also promised his Marxist mate another referendum so how would that work for you?

 

[Grendel]

Bazza, I don’t agree. No deal will damage us more than the EU. The EU are more prepared for no deal than we are.

The idea we can play chicken with the EU around no deal is, I think, extremely misguided. Not least by the fact that (as acknowledged by leavers) you are also playing chicken with parliament and at least half of the population of the U.K.



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The Eu actually are not anymore prepared at all as they’ve admitted it was never happening. The other huge headache is that we won’t oat the £39 billion as much of that was actually for the 18 month post exit period so there will be significant re-budgeting across many countries who can’t afford it

 

[djr8369]

The Eu actually are not anymore prepared at all as they’ve admitted it was never happening. The other huge headache is that we won’t oat the £39 billion as much of that was actually for the 18 month post exit period so there will be significant re-budgeting across many countries who can’t afford it

What do you mean they’ve admitted it was never happening? They seem to have done a lot more prep than us having pilot tested systems and are actually passing law and legislation. Something we haven’t done and now don’t have time to do.

We might not legally owe some of it but that’s open to interpretation and legal challenge. It will also then become our biggest headache once the EU use it as leverage for future arrangements.


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[Grendel]

What do you mean they’ve admitted it was never happening? They seem to have done a lot more prep than us having pilot tested systems and are actually passing law and legislation. Something we haven’t done and now don’t have time to do.

We might not legally owe some of it but that’s open to interpretation and legal challenge. It will also then become our biggest headache once the EU use it as leverage for future arrangements.


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Barrier has admitted a no leave option was never discussed with May and never taken seriously

Of course some countries will be horribly impacted as major suppliers would be bust. We can devalue currency and that alone will in the short term bridge any gap for exporters - the Eu countries are tied to a strategy that benefits some at the expense of others

And then there’s the budget shortfall...

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Sure can. How would you cope with a run on the pound which would happen if Gezza gets in? He’s already also promised his Marxist mate another referendum so how would that work for you?

The pound has already taken quite a beating in the last few years and your mate has reduced it to virtually 1:1 with the Euro. Why is it that when right wing economics is allowed to go the whole hog it has caused the most severe worldwide financial crises?

 

[djr8369]

Barrier has admitted a no leave option was never discussed with May and never taken seriously

Of course some countries will be horribly impacted as major suppliers would be bust. We can devalue currency and that alone will in the short term bridge any gap for exporters - the Eu countries are tied to a strategy that benefits some at the expense of others

And then there’s the budget shortfall...

You’re conflating discussing no deal as an option within negotiations and preparing for no deal which are very different.

Yeah for exporters, what about importers which is larger? Essentially it comes back to our wallets doesn’t it?


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[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Corbyn is seen as the enemy by the labour MPs - the Sinn Fein suck up doesn’t represent the millions of voters - represents a rag tag bunch of anarchists who want to destroy the country

Many Conservatives don't support no deal - if Alexander was confident that did he wouldn't have prorogued parliament, even with his very slim house majority. Despite many eventually voting for him in the leadership contest it was clear his biggest problem in the whole process was going to be getting enough MP's to back him - the membership vote he was always favourite to win - wonder how many of the MP's wish they could vote again? He is not popular amongst his own MP's either.

The DUP suck-up doesn't represent the millions of voters. No deal represents the wishes of a few self-serving individuals like the ERG who stand to make a pretty penny out of it and are willing to cause massive problems to get it.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Why are you telling me this?

Both sides need to look at the situation & put their heads together to arrive at a solution & acceptable deal. That is something I have said will happen all along as no deal is in nobody's interest.

What I do agree with Bojo on is that by taking no deal off the table (or out of the equation if you prefer that term) - it ties your own hands in negotiations...which is why Bojo has said by pressuring for a deal only exit it makes it more likely we don't get an acceptable deal!

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The EU worked with the UK to negotiate a deal that is acceptable to most except for one detail. MPs, Boris included, could simply vote for it and in all likelihood, the ‘backstop’ would not become reality. We are the ones who chose to start this bullshit without thinking through the consequences-it is incumbent upon us to provide alternatives if we insist on rejecting the deal on the table.

 

[Grendel]

The pound has already taken quite a beating in the last few years and your mate has reduced it to virtually 1:1 with the Euro. Why is it that when right wing economics is allowed to go the whole hog it has caused the most severe worldwide financial crises?

It’s nothing to do with right wing economics that’s your rather deluded perception

 

[fernandopartridge]

A survey carried out in April 2018 for the European Parliament by Kantar Public consulting found that support for the EU in Germany (and the UK) had dropped by about 2% since the previous survey.

And it is ironic isn't it that you say you are shocked by Astute moving his family to an EU country given the time he spends on here ranting about it...especially since you have moved to an EU country, & spend so much time ranting about Brexit?

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I've just looked at the survey, can you clarify what you're on about here as it looks like you've just cherry picked some numbers to me

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

It’s nothing to do with right wing economics that’s your rather deluded perception

What were the root causes of the Wall St Crash and the 2008 global recession? What do you think Trump’s economic agenda is going to result in?

Trickle down economics doesn’t work-the empirical evidence is overwhelming

 

[djr8369]

I've just looked at the survey, can you clarify what you're on about here as it looks like you've just cherry picked some numbers to me

If it’s the survey I looked at he highlights a slight drop in U.K. and Germany but negate to mention it went up in every other nation.


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[djr8369]

No deal represents the wishes of a few self-serving individuals like the ERG who stand to make a pretty penny out of it and are willing to cause massive problems to get it.

I see Crispin Odey is shorting the economy again while presumably persuading Johnson to take actions that would put it at risk.


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[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

A survey carried out in April 2018 for the European Parliament by Kantar Public consulting found that support for the EU in Germany (and the UK) had dropped by about 2% since the previous survey.

I'm always wary about people displaying info like this - what are the actual figures though? They may have gone down, but if you start at say 70% even going down it still shows a lot of support.

I found the Kantar spring 2018 results and in Germany 49% tend to trust the EU, 42% don't (rest don't know) so Germany seems even more divided than us on the issue (30-57 so almost twice as many don't trust). However, in the analysis is showed people who had trust in the EU had increased (2% in Germany, 1% here) although that was offset here by a 2 point increase in people distrusting the EU (Germany no change).

Similarly those in both Germany and the UK saw the image of the EU become more positive (4% more positive,1% more negative in Germany) whereas here 1% less had a positive view of the EU but 4% fewer people had a negative view of the EU (5% increase in a neutral view).

The same Spring 2018 survey also found across the EU that people had more trust in the EU (42%) than they did in their national governments and parliaments (34%). Trust in the EU had gone up one point, in national governments down 2 and 1 points for governments and parliaments respectively.

All this is now 18 months out of date anyway.

 

[Grendel]

What were the root causes of the Wall St Crash and the 2008 global recession? What do you think Trump’s economic agenda is going to result in?

Trickle down economics doesn’t work-the empirical evidence is overwhelming

The same causes that have provided wonderful opportunities in the intervening decades - prosperity, improved technology and opportunity - of course there would be no crash in a socialist state as there would be nothing to crash from

There is not a socialist country on earth that is a successful comparison to capitalism (right wing economics to you) - why don’t you move to Caracas and enjoy the equal (lack of) opportunity for all society that it is?

 

[SIR ERNIE]

Call a General Election Boris.

The problems of the last three years are the consequence of the 52% being represented by 24% whilst the 48% is represented by 76%. Everything comes back to that.

Brexit will never get delivered against those odds.

 

[djr8369]

The same causes that have provided wonderful opportunities in the intervening decades - prosperity, improved technology and opportunity - of course there would be no crash in a socialist state as there would be nothing to crash from

There is not a socialist country on earth that is a successful comparison to capitalism (right wing economics to you) - why don’t you move to Caracas and enjoy the equal (lack of) opportunity for all society that it is?

They weren’t the causes were they? M sure you’re well enough read to have a basic grasp of the root causes.

Can you stop equating reasonable regulation to stop out of control extreme capitalism with a full on communist economic structure as it makes you sound like a fucking lunatic.


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