The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (60 Viewers)

[djr8369]

Call a General Election Boris.

The problems of the last three years are the consequence of the 52% being represented by 24% whilst the 48% is represented by 76%. Everything comes back to that.

Brexit will never get delivered against those odds.

No, it comes down to trying to implement direct democracy in a representative democracy system where the tool for direct democracy used an ill defined outcome.


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[Grendel]

They weren’t the causes were they? M sure you’re well enough read to have a basic grasp of the root causes.

Can you stop equating reasonable regulation to stop out of control extreme capitalism with a full on communist economic structure as it makes you sound like a fucking lunatic.


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The only lunatic is you - you have zero experience of an administration that taxes innovators and success and rewards indolence . You are basic your notions and beliefs from a text book and not reality

Also I hate to break it you - recession and global crashes pass 95% of people by - they are not negatively impacted by it at all. The 2008 crash has made zero difference to virtually anyone.

 

[djr8369]

The only lunatic is you - you have zero experience of an administration that taxes innovators and success and rewards indolence . You are basic your notions and beliefs from a text book and not reality

Also I hate to break it you - recession and global crashes pass 95% of people by - they are not negatively impacted by it at all. The 2008 crash has made zero difference to virtually anyone.

What experience do you have in such a system? I should point that our current system does this to a greater or lesser extent.

How are you defining negatively impacted? Consider that house prices dropped about 30% which the majority of people are exposed to. Consider that global markets dropped around 40% which about 75% of the population are exposed to via workplace pensions and SIPPs and yet more are exposed to via them working in the economy.

Why 95% of people as an arbitrary figure? If the numbers of unemployed (which reached around 9%) were within that 5% does that make it ok? What about the numbers of suicide related to the recession, suicide rates rose over 6% in the following years. Is that ok as it is less than 5% of the overall population?

Furthermore, as the conversation was about the causes of the recession just what point were you hoping to make? That recession is ok? In which case, does it matter to you if the causes are unregulated capitalism or socialism?


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[Grendel]

I thought I’d look at one rather bizarre stat first To see if it was worth delving deeper

Suicide rates - per 100,000 in the uk - higher in the Blair years of the 90’s than the post 2008 era

Can’t be arsed after that as you are clearly slightly mad

 

[djr8369]

I thought I’d look at one rather bizarre stat first To see if it was worth delving deeper

Suicide rates - per 100,000 in the uk - higher in the Blair years of the 90’s than the post 2008 era

Can’t be arsed after that as you are clearly slightly mad

Because they’ve been steadily declining over time. They were higher in the Thatcher years than the Blair years. The fact you’ve tried to turn my use of statistics to question your previous post into a baseless attack on labour is peak Grendel.

But yeah, I’m the mad one.


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[Grendel]

Because they’ve been steadily declining over time. They were higher in the Thatcher years than the Blair years. The fact you’ve tried to turn my use of statistics to question your previous post into a baseless attack on labour is peak Grendel.

But yeah, I’m the mad one.


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It was lower in 2009 than 1999 and 1988 was around the same as 1999 - it was you who tried to relay an event to the stats not me. I’m just showing the absurd inaccuracies

 

[djr8369]

I didn’t claim it wasn’t lower, I claimed it rose in the aftermath of the global financial crises. That is true.

As usual you’re trying to deflect from the fact the points you raised have been pointed out to be ridiculous.


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[Grendel]

I didn’t claim it wasn’t lower, I claimed it rose in the aftermath of the global financial crises. That is true.

As usual you’re trying to deflect from the fact the points you raised have been pointed out to be ridiculous.


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But it isn’t true

 

[shmmeee]

A survey carried out in April 2018 for the European Parliament by Kantar Public consulting found that support for the EU in Germany (and the UK) had dropped by about 2% since the previous survey.

And it is ironic isn't it that you say you are shocked by Astute moving his family to an EU country given the time he spends on here ranting about it...especially since you have moved to an EU country, & spend so much time ranting about Brexit?

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A 2% drop is margin of error stuff.

 

[djr8369]

But it isn’t true

Well it is.

Google Scholar

More Than 10,000 Suicides Tied To Economic Crisis, Study Says




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[shmmeee]

Call a General Election Boris.

The problems of the last three years are the consequence of the 52% being represented by 24% whilst the 48% is represented by 76%. Everything comes back to that.

Brexit will never get delivered against those odds.

Everyone is represented by the 0.15%

You lost. Get over it. Will of the people. There’s not a majority or even a plurality for no deal here.

Only 18% of Leave voters thought no deal was very likely before the referendum. And only ~21% likely at all:

Leavers were far more likely than remainers to think we’d stay in the SM. So it’s actually the 24% representing the 21%. And it’s less than that cos not everyone voted.

 

[Grendel]

Well it is.

Google Scholar

More Than 10,000 Suicides Tied To Economic Crisis, Study Says




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I’m talking Uk

Suicide in the United Kingdom - Wikipedia

I was going to mention Greece. That’s blood on the Eu generals isn’t it?

10,000 across 3 continents. Christ is this the best you can do.

 

[djr8369]

I’m talking Uk

Suicide in the United Kingdom - Wikipedia

I was going to mention Greece. That’s blood on the Eu generals isn’t it?

10,000 across 3 continents. Christ is this the best you can do.

Greece? The primary causes of which was the global financial crises exposing their high government debt.

How many deaths would you need to qualify as a negative impact in your eyes?

It’s obvious to every observer you’re trying to throw dead cats after I exposed your initial points.


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[Brighton Sky Blue]

The same causes that have provided wonderful opportunities in the intervening decades - prosperity, improved technology and opportunity - of course there would be no crash in a socialist state as there would be nothing to crash from

There is not a socialist country on earth that is a successful comparison to capitalism (right wing economics to you) - why don’t you move to Caracas and enjoy the equal (lack of) opportunity for all society that it is?

You do love a good straw man G. It helps to obfuscate your earlier unemployment stats which ignore that it twice went over 10% under the Tories and was generally decreasing under Blair, who also managed a surplus in one of his years in office. You keep bleating on Corbyn wrecking the pound but Brexit and Boris have knocked it to parity with the Euro.

Social democracy is a mix of socialist and capitalist ideas-we all agree that’s the best system but disagree on the proportions of each. The 2008 recession was preceded by years of deregulation of financial services and enormous tax cuts for the rich under Dubya. That’s capitalism on crack with predictable results. If you were in the States my guess is you’d defend those policies.

Put the Telegraph down and go outside

 

[djr8369]

I’m talking Uk

Suicide in the United Kingdom - Wikipedia

do.

You’re wrong in trying to be specific about the U.K. anyway. For men it rose in 2008, dipped for two years running, while remaining above 2007 levels, then continued to rise for most of the following decade. Only in 2017 did it nearly reach its 2007 level. Throughout that time it trended higher for women causing the overall rate to trend higher for most of the last decade before nearly reaching 2007 levels in 2017.

Good attempt to try and cherry pick data to try and find a hole in one of the several points I raised though.




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[djr8369]

You do love a good straw man G. It helps to obfuscate your earlier unemployment stats which ignore that it twice went over 10% under the Tories and was generally decreasing under Blair, who also managed a surplus in one of his years in office. You keep bleating on Corbyn wrecking the pound but Brexit and Boris have knocked it to parity with the Euro.

Social democracy is a mix of socialist and capitalist ideas-we all agree that’s the best system but disagree on the proportions of each. The 2008 recession was preceded by years of deregulation of financial services and enormous tax cuts for the rich under Dubya. That’s capitalism on crack with predictable results. If you were in the States my guess is you’d defend those policies.

Put the Telegraph down and go outside

Not to mention Corbyn hypothetically tanking the pound = BAD, Brexit actually tanking the pound = GOOD for exporters.


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[Brighton Sky Blue]

Not to mention Corbyn hypothetically tanking the pound = BAD, Brexit actually tanking the pound = GOOD for exporters.


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Ask G if he was wrong with his 2017 electoral predictions-he'll probably say you belong up Corbyn's rectum

 

[Grendel]

Greece? The primary causes of which was the global financial crises exposing their high government debt.

How many deaths would you need to qualify as a negative impact in your eyes?

It’s obvious to every observer you’re trying to throw dead cats after I exposed your initial points.


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It’s obvious to every observer - lol

Greece has been destroyed by having to be tied to a currency it could not devalue and then the jackboot brigade from the Eu control its fiscal spending

If you cannot see that then I guess at least school starts back again next week so you might try and learn something

 

[skybluetony176]

There is not a socialist country on earth that is a successful comparison to capitalism

Scandinavian countries are widely considered as Socialist countries because of their welfare systems and high taxes. Same can be said for New Zealand for that matter. So I guess you’re going to have to define your opinion of what a socialist country is. I’m guessing you’re confusing communism with socialism.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Scandinavian countries are widely considered as Socialist countries because of their welfare systems and high taxes. Same can be said for New Zealand for that matter. So I guess you’re going to have to define your opinion of what a socialist state is. I’m guessing you’re confusing communism with socialism.

You could find G's talking points on any Fox News segment

 

[Astute]

It’s quite different to what he claimed that they were angry due to the EU ‘treatment’ of the UK.

Lies lies lies. It is all you ever do these days.

Or would you like to point out where I have been saying so? Of course not. Because as usual I haven't.

And how about explaining why you think May did an amazing job.

 

[Sick Boy]

Lies lies lies. It is all you ever do these days.

Or would you like to point out where I have been saying so? Of course not. Because as usual I haven't.

And how about explaining why you think May did an amazing job.

What a joke.

And where have I said May did an amazing job?

 

[djr8369]

It’s obvious to every observer - lol

Greece has been destroyed by having to be tied to a currency it could not devalue and then the jackboot brigade from the Eu control its fiscal spending

If you cannot see that then I guess at least school starts back again next week so you might try and learn something

Yes, it is obvious. Are you reduced to just writing “lol” now?

It was destroyed by insane internal politics regarding debt, public spending and pensions. There’s an argument its currency situation gave it less fiscal flexibility, but that’s not the point you made.

Ah, accusations I’m a schoolchild even though we discussed my career a few weeks ago. You can keep throwing insults but I’ll stick to facts until you want to engage like an adult.


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[Astute]

No I’m stating the fact is he is saying Eu suppliers will not be able to distribute goods through. Some if them are not huge and some have well over half their revenue from uk automotive suppliers so they will go down very quickly. Shame the Eu are happy to destroy lives to flatter their own egos

Which is the biggest problem I have with the EU. Refusing to talk trade or saying anything on the rules of who will be allowed to stay where after moving to another country before Brexit. All they want is billions off us and to try and force us to remain. They don't seem to care about the people affected by the way they act. And no SB. As you know this isn't me talking about countries or any other lies you can think of.

 

[skybluetony176]

You could find G's talking points on any Fox News segment

I think you’re right. It’s the sort of news outlet that considers us a communist state because we have a national health service.

What is interesting is to look at the top ten happiest countries in the world. Almost all are considered socialist. I guess the definition of capitalism is knowing the cost everything and the value of nothing.

 

[skybluetony176]

Which is the biggest problem I have with the EU. Refusing to talk trade or saying anything on the rules of who will be allowed to stay where after moving to another country before Brexit. All they want is billions off us and to try and force us to remain. They don't seem to care about the people affected by the way they act. And no SB. As you know this isn't me talking about countries or any other lies you can think of.

Spain has taken steps within its law to ensure the rights of Brits living in Spain. Which surprised me as I thought the EU was a dictatorship and members had no control of their own sovereignty. Doesn’t seem to be the way with Spain.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

I think you’re right. It’s the sort of news outlet that considers us a communist state because we have a national health service.

What is interesting is to look at the top ten happiest countries in the world. Almost all are considered socialist. I guess the definition of capitalism is knowing the cost everything and the value of nothing.

They just shout 'Venezuela' and assume that social democracy is equivalent to communist dictatorship. Germany, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, France, the UK etc

 

[Astute]

What a joke.

And where have I said May did an amazing job?

As I keep saying two days ago Shmmeee stated that May did an amazing job and you must agree with him as you 'liked' his post. Or do you just give pats on the back to people for saying the opposite of what you think because you do?

 

[Sick Boy]

Which is the biggest problem I have with the EU. Refusing to talk trade or saying anything on the rules of who will be allowed to stay where after moving to another country before Brexit. All they want is billions off us and to try and force us to remain. They don't seem to care about the people affected by the way they act. And no SB. As you know this isn't me talking about countries or any other lies you can think of.

Back in the real world, it’s being left up to countries to decide what to do. Italy was one of the first to guarantee rights in a no deal Brexit

 

[djr8369]

I think you’re right. It’s the sort of news outlet that considers us a communist state because we have a national health service.

.

Sounds like parody but this is what some Americans have been brain washed into thinking and it’s starting to spread over here with the millions spent on right wings think tanks, bloggers and YouTube channels.



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[Astute]

A 2% drop is margin of error stuff.

Welcome back.

So would you like to explain your statement on how May did an amazing job? Because nobody who agreed with you can think of anything.

 

[Astute]

It’s obvious to every observer - lol

Greece has been destroyed by having to be tied to a currency it could not devalue and then the jackboot brigade from the Eu control its fiscal spending

If you cannot see that then I guess at least school starts back again next week so you might try and learn something

Which is the point many try to ignore. Just like the vast majority of those who say leaving the EU will be an economic disaster for us. The vast majority of these same people said it would be such a good thing if we joined the Euro. Years later they all admitted they got it totally wrong. Yet those countries tied to the strength of Germany struggle like we would have if we couldn't control our own currency.

 

[Astute]

Spain has taken steps within its law to ensure the rights of Brits living in Spain. Which surprised me as I thought the EU was a dictatorship and members had no control of their own sovereignty. Doesn’t seem to be the way with Spain.

Well done Spain. One down 26 to go.

I suppose this will make the millions of people affected live a lot easier now. Nothing to worry about anymore eh?

 

[Grendel]

They just shout 'Venezuela' and assume that social democracy is equivalent to communist dictatorship. Germany, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, France, the UK etc

Are you aware the wealth distribution in New Zealand between rich and poor is identical to the uk?

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Which is the point many try to ignore. Just like the vast majority of those who say leaving the EU will be an economic disaster for us. The vast majority of these same people said it would be such a good thing if we joined the Euro. Years later they all admitted they got it totally wrong. Yet those countries tied to the strength of Germany struggle like we would have if we couldn't control our own currency.

I guess the difference is Astute that the pro-Brexit government is forecasting a negative outcome behind closed doors. Rees-Mogg has had to resort to predicting a 'dividend' to be returned in decades rather than instantly. Farage is the only one openly demanding no-deal because he stands to lose the least from it