Jeremy corbyn (45 Viewers)

[SkyblueBazza]

Are you seriously denying that the homeless are not a burden on the NHS and the police and generally to a greater extent than somebody who isn't homeless?

I think they are people in genuine need of Police & NHS resources, but by sheer numbers nothing like a burden. The clowns that drink themselves or drug themselves to oblivion & damage themselves or others are a massive burden. Some homeless people are probably amongst that crowd too...but not many in the grand scheme.

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[SkyblueBazza]

You do because he actually voted leave, I believe.

He nor I mentioned leave though did we? The thread is about Labour spending plans not Brexit.. wrong thread...&/or making more assumptions???

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[SkyblueBazza]

Proportionally the homeless are a bigger drain on those services. Poor hygiene and living conditions will result in far more health problems and quite often there are issues like substance abuse that takes up more NHS and police time, as well as social care etc although that is largely provided by charities. You may argue over the course of a lifetime it evens out as being homeless will likely result in an early death and so the costs of being elderly with the health and social care costs associated with that won't occur.

As for the minimum wage the effect on the public and economy is down to greed of businessmen rather than affordability. Plus of course if you do bring it in those same people will then just see an excuse to up prices and you're left in the same situation just with higher inflation. Reason why a 'citizen's wage' won't work. Having a wage people can live off is something that should be a basic function of government, but it's hampered by greed and the lack of balls of those in government to put the needs of its citizens ahead of the wants of the rich.

Yes...& proportionally doesn't make them a burden. Sheer numbers mean they are not a burden. They are just in greater need. Much more police resource is taken up by mental health sufferers thanks to Care In The Community being massively under-resourced.

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[clint van damme]

A minimum wage on it's own simply sets off a chain reaction that eventually spirals & leaves those on the minimum wage just as needy as they were before. A minimum wage with a maximum wage running alongside it might work better imo. Ultimately, there is a need to stop the those at the top of the money chain from raking it all in & squirrelling it away never to be seen again

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There is plenty of evidence, here but more so in the States, that raising minimum wage stimulates the economy while having little affect on business.

Of course there would be a tipping point caused by raising it too high or too quickly but it doesn't appear that had happened so far.

 

[shmmeee]

Completely agree.

Surely to vote for a party you have to believe in what they are trying (or at least promising) to do.

And although your comment is tongue in cheek there are plenty of people with that mindset be it for Labour or the Tories.

Anyway was just genuinely intrigued.

Under FPTP you vote for whichever of the main two parties is closest to you. Anything else is pointless. We have broad church politics and frankly in the Internet age of hyper atomisation I’m glad for it. More people need to learn to compromise.

 

[SkyblueBazza]

There is plenty of evidence, here but more so in the States, that raising minimum wage stimulates the economy while having little affect on business.

Of course there would be a tipping point caused by raising it too high or too quickly but it doesn't appear that had happened so far.

I hope it works (as it seems that is where we are heading). I just cannot imagine the next pay tier up not wanting an increase to maintain wage differential. And so on up the chain over a period of time...impacting inflation...& on we go full circle & back to start.

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[Sick Boy]

He nor I mentioned leave though did we? The thread is about Labour spending plans not Brexit.. wrong thread...&/or making more assumptions???

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Consider that I voted remain...yet whst you are saying there are pretty much arguments that the remain camp used & got no sympathy pre-referendum. Nor did the emergency budget etc. Funnily enough many of the doom scenario scare tactics didn't work & didn't happen either.
We appear to be getting mixed signals from the EU now...Merkel vs Macron reported statements. It will all end in either tears, or smiles & handshakes on BOTH sides

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Yeah, you definitely weren’t talking about Brexit.

 

[SkyblueBazza]

Yeah, you definitely weren’t talking about Brexit.

That was a different conversation on the same thread with somebody else though wasn't it?

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[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

A minimum wage on it's own simply sets off a chain reaction that eventually spirals & leaves those on the minimum wage just as needy as they were before. A minimum wage with a maximum wage running alongside it might work better imo. Ultimately, there is a need to stop the those at the top of the money chain from raking it all in & squirrelling it away never to be seen again

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I agree with much of this post, esp the spiralling effect which as I said before was down to greed.

But I admit I'm surprised at your thinking of a maximum wage. That is far, far left thinking. Don't you think that'd be damaging because if you set a maximum wage it'll just lead to all the high earners going elsewhere and cutting tax revenues which they contribute most of (even if it is just a fraction of what they should actually give in a fair/progressive tax system?

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

I think they are people in genuine need of Police & NHS resources, but by sheer numbers nothing like a burden. The clowns that drink themselves or drug themselves to oblivion & damage themselves or others are a massive burden. Some homeless people are probably amongst that crowd too...but not many in the grand scheme.

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I don't get your point. Homeless people are far more likely to catch infectious diseases on the street, even if we leave exposure to drugs and alcohol out of it. Then there's the matter of squats which cost time, money and effort to evict. Though I'd have thought there would be more repulsion at homelessness still existing in the UK

 

[SkyblueBazza]

I agree with much of this post, esp the spiralling effect which as I said before was down to greed.

But I admit I'm surprised at your thinking of a maximum wage. That is far, far left thinking. Don't you think that'd be damaging because if you set a maximum wage it'll just lead to all the high earners going elsewhere and cutting tax revenues which they contribute most of (even if it is just a fraction of what they should actually give in a fair/progressive tax system?

It is a double-edged sword with the higher earners...though I doubt they would all go elsewhere. Not all are motivated by lust for money. Those that do leave a space for fresher recruits with fresher ideas & a point to prove. The tax lost would be offset by less benefits subsidising (as I suspect there are many more low end earners than higher end.

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[SkyblueBazza]

I don't get your point. Homeless people are far more likely to catch infectious diseases on the street, even if we leave exposure to drugs and alcohol out of it. Then there's the matter of squats which cost time, money and effort to evict. Though I'd have thought there would be more repulsion at homelessness still existing in the UK

Homelessness is obviously undesirable for the vast majority. Some probably like being under the system's radar too though.
You're right in what you say about their need for more attention. But that is all proportional...in the grand scheme the proportion of homeless is not great, so the actual numbers mean they are not a drain on NHS or Police resource to any great extent. People getting drunk & falling over or fighting on Friday & Saturday nights is on a totally different level in terms of draining resources.
Does that explain it more clearly?

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[Brighton Sky Blue]

Homelessness is obviously undesirable for the vast majority. Some probably like being under the system's radar too though.
You're right in what you say about their need for more attention. But that is all proportional...in the grand scheme the proportion of homeless is not great, so the actual numbers mean they are not a drain on NHS or Police resource to any great extent. People getting drunk & falling over or fighting on Friday & Saturday nights is on a totally different level in terms of draining resources.
Does that explain it more clearly?

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I was giving one example of a policy that benefits socially and economically. I never claimed it to be a cure all for the country. Just a long overdue step forward

 

[Sick Boy]

That was a different conversation on the same thread with somebody else though wasn't it?

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No, you were talking to FP about Brexit.

 

[SkyblueBazza]

No, you were talking to FP about Brexit.

Yes - apologies. You're right we were, I got mixed up there to say the least.

Though why him voting leave makes me look foolish, I don't understand at all.

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[Sick Boy]

Yes - apologies. You're right we were, I got mixed up there to say the least.

Though why him voting leave makes me look foolish, I don't understand at all.

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He is probably one of the most balanced posters on the thread and challenges those on the side he voted for who have only ever looked at it from one point of view.

 

[SkyblueBazza]

He is probably one of the most balanced posters on the thread and challenges those on the side he voted for who have only ever looked at it from one point of view.

I like him already!

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[SkyblueBazza]

Jeremy Corbyn walks into a Bank to cash a cheque. As he approaches the cashier he says, "Good morning, Ms could you please cash this cheque for me?"

Cashier:"It would be my pleasure. Could you please show me your ID?"

Corbyn :"Truthfully, I did not bring my ID with me as I didn't think there was any need to. I am Jeremy corbyn, leader of the Labour Party.

Cashier:"Yes, I know who you are, but with all the regulations and monitoring of the banks because of impostors and forgers and requirements of the legislation, etc., I must insist on seeing ID."

Corbyn: Just ask anyone here at the bank who I am and they will tell you. Everybody knows who I am."

Cashier: "I am sorry, mr corbyn, but these are the bank rules and I must follow them."

Corbyn,"Come on please, I am urging you, please cash this cheque."

Cashier: "Look sir, here is an example of what we can do. One day, Tiger Woods came into the bank without ID. To prove he was Tiger Woods he pulled out his putter and made a beautiful shot across the bank into a cup. With that shot we knew him to be Tiger Woods and cashed his cheque."

"Another time, Andre Agassi came in without ID. He pulled out his tennis racket and made a fabulous shot where the tennis ball landed in my cup. With that shot we cashed his cheque. So, sir, what can you do to prove that it is you and only you?"

Corbyn stands there thinking and thinking and finally says, "Honestly, my mind is a total blank...there is nothing that comes to my mind. I can't think of a single thing."

Cashier: "Will that be large or small notes , Mr Corbyn. ?....

.....

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[Sky Blue Pete]

Jeremy Corbyn walks into a Bank to cash a cheque. As he approaches the cashier he says, "Good morning, Ms could you please cash this cheque for me?"

Cashier:"It would be my pleasure. Could you please show me your ID?"

Corbyn :"Truthfully, I did not bring my ID with me as I didn't think there was any need to. I am Jeremy corbyn, leader of the Labour Party.

Cashier:"Yes, I know who you are, but with all the regulations and monitoring of the banks because of impostors and forgers and requirements of the legislation, etc., I must insist on seeing ID."

Corbyn: Just ask anyone here at the bank who I am and they will tell you. Everybody knows who I am."

Cashier: "I am sorry, mr corbyn, but these are the bank rules and I must follow them."

Corbyn,"Come on please, I am urging you, please cash this cheque."

Cashier: "Look sir, here is an example of what we can do. One day, Tiger Woods came into the bank without ID. To prove he was Tiger Woods he pulled out his putter and made a beautiful shot across the bank into a cup. With that shot we knew him to be Tiger Woods and cashed his cheque."

"Another time, Andre Agassi came in without ID. He pulled out his tennis racket and made a fabulous shot where the tennis ball landed in my cup. With that shot we cashed his cheque. So, sir, what can you do to prove that it is you and only you?"

Corbyn stands there thinking and thinking and finally says, "Honestly, my mind is a total blank...there is nothing that comes to my mind. I can't think of a single thing."

Cashier: "Will that be large or small notes , Mr Corbyn. ?....

.....

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Harsh!!

I have to say it does appear to me as a life long labour voter that momentum and the current leadership would prefer their moral high ground and being right in their own minds than get anywhere near being responsible or accountable for actually governing the country

 

[shmmeee]

A minimum wage on it's own simply sets off a chain reaction that eventually spirals & leaves those on the minimum wage just as needy as they were before. A minimum wage with a maximum wage running alongside it might work better imo. Ultimately, there is a need to stop the those at the top of the money chain from raking it all in & squirrelling it away never to be seen again

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Utter bollocks wheeled out by the right every time those at the top want to defend low wages and proved wrong every single time.

 

[clint van damme]

Utter bollocks wheeled out by the right every time those at the top want to defend low wages and proved wrong every single time.

As someone said the issue in this country is that the people on £1000 an hour have convinced the people on £15 an hour that the people on £7 an hour are the problem.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Utter bollocks wheeled out by the right every time those at the top want to defend low wages and proved wrong every single time.

There may be a modicum of truth to it, but what they fail to say is it's them that sets it all off by increasing the prices to take the extra pay. Of course they say it's because they have to cover the cost of the increased wage but the rise is always above the increase in unit cost, on top of some pretty healthy mark-ups already. All while giving themselves a pay increase 4-5 times more than the workers usually.

 

[Otis]

I quite like Corbyn, but he is never going to be PM, so if there is a general election, unless he stands down as leader, he's handing the PM a no deal Brexit option on a sliver platter.

Can't stand Tony Blair, but he's right on this.

 

[fernandopartridge]

Utter bollocks wheeled out by the right every time those at the top want to defend low wages and proved wrong every single time.

Yep, funny how the same inflationary rules don't apply to executive pay.

 

[SkyblueBazza]

Utter bollocks wheeled out by the right every time those at the top want to defend low wages and proved wrong every single time.

But I am attacking low wages.

Seems you are simply adopting a typical "Tory bastard" approach, of those unwavering Labour supporters, to anyone whose comments they misinterpret &/or mis understand &/or disagree with.

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[Ian1779]

I quite like Corbyn, but he is never going to be PM, so if there is a general election, unless he stands down as leader, he's handing the PM a no deal Brexit option on a sliver platter.

Can't stand Tony Blair, but he's right on this.

He’s right at this moment... Boris will play the ‘people vs parliament’ card... and that these MP’s are against democracy.

But will it be enough to deliver a majority? Very much depends on turnout, which the opposition will need to mobilise.

 

[Grendel]

He’s right at this moment... Boris will play the ‘people vs parliament’ card... and that these MP’s are against democracy.

But will it be enough to deliver a majority? Very much depends on turnout, which the opposition will need to mobilise.

He will lose seats in Scotland - depends on Brexit Party stance and how well your dear friend Jo does in terms of % of vote

 

[Deleted member 5849]

I quite like Corbyn, but he is never going to be PM, so if there is a general election, unless he stands down as leader, he's handing the PM a no deal Brexit option on a sliver platter.

Can't see and Tony Blair, but he's right on this.

With the caveat that the last general election, he ran a good campaign and reversed a sliding trend of Labour losses. However...

He’s right at this moment... Boris will play the ‘people vs parliament’ card... and that these MP’s are against democracy.

But will it be enough to deliver a majority? Very much depends on turnout, which the opposition will need to mobilise.

Better to let Johnson fail to sort out the mess he and his party have made.

 

[shmmeee]

I agree with much of this post, esp the spiralling effect which as I said before was down to greed.

But I admit I'm surprised at your thinking of a maximum wage. That is far, far left thinking. Don't you think that'd be damaging because if you set a maximum wage it'll just lead to all the high earners going elsewhere and cutting tax revenues which they contribute most of (even if it is just a fraction of what they should actually give in a fair/progressive tax system?

The data doesn’t bear this out.

It’s classic Classical Economics to assume people would just move country for a tax break but life isn’t like that. People have families, friends and homes that mean something to them.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

I quite like Corbyn, but he is never going to be PM, so if there is a general election, unless he stands down as leader, he's handing the PM a no deal Brexit option on a sliver platter.

Can't stand Tony Blair, but he's right on this.

Yep me too

 

[Houchens Head]

 

[Otis]

Think I could use that same chart for pretty much any of the parties at the moment.

 

[Johnnythespider]

I'm going to vote Labour cause I'm from Cov innit, seriously i vote for policies not personalities and i like Labours policies. The gap between the top and the bottom needs narrowing and that won't happen with any other party in power. FWIW i don't mind Corbyn, no worse than many who've gone before and he makes jam and has an allotment, and if he has any business sense he should open a fried chicken shop sharpish.

 

[skybluetony176]

I'm going to vote Labour cause I'm from Cov innit, seriously i vote for policies not personalities and i like Labours policies. The gap between the top and the bottom needs narrowing and that won't happen with any other party in power. FWIW i don't mind Corbyn, no worse than many who've gone before and he makes jam and has an allotment, and if he has any business sense he should open a fried chicken shop sharpish.

He’s a vegetarian.

 

[Otis]

He’s a vegetarian.

I will definitely vote for him then.