How much do we lose (10 Viewers)

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covboy1987

Well-Known Member
A season at st Andrew's has anyone got an idea - how much does the club lose after all expenses taken into consideration
 
slyblue57

slyblue57

Well-Known Member
No one knows what the true expenses of St Andrews are apart from the Club. Same as no one knows what food, drink, parking etc income we get.
 
oldskyblue58

oldskyblue58

CCFC Finance Director
Just guessing at somewhere between 1m to 2m losses this season.

You have to, for this season at least, factor in the profits on player sales. Reportedly 1m for chaplin and 2m for bayliss. That's going to be a minimum profit 2.5m in the accounts. I assume the plan is to sell players each year to cover losses whether at st Andrew's or elsewhere.

Lot of the annual losses are the interest charges. Approx 1.8m. However I would assume that this would be added to the debt again so is really a paper transaction. Whilst it shows in the accounts as part of the losses it doesn't mean a cash loss to cover

Reportedly the rent at st Andrew's is 3 times that at the ricoh. Say approx 300k match day expenses at ricoh were 350k so say 500k at st Andrew's. So at least 400k up on last year

The other incomes on crowds of 5000 is not going to be big figures turnover wise despite what has been said. But then you have to take out the direct costs and account for it being shared. It might be better than at ricoh but it isnt going to be massive. Also the ricoh crowds 12000 st Andrew's 5000 the deal might be better percentage but it could still be little different in total. Used to be f&b profit share 15% at ricoh on current crowds it would need to be over double that 30%+ at st Andrew's.

Crowds of 5000 are going to mean lower match day income probably down 1m from last season.

I would think the aim is to run at a level where losses only equate to the interest charge. That means at break even cash flow wise and no or minimal loans from sisu (bank of last resort basis as has been the case over last 3 or 4 years)

We wont actually know until February 2021
 
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T

tom88

Well-Known Member
What will happen if we get promoted regarding ground share?

Will we stay or will there be more pressure to return?
 
pipkin73

pipkin73

Well-Known Member
oldskyblue58 said:
Just guessing at somewhere between 1m to 2m losses this season.

You have to, for this season at least, factor in the profits on player sales. Reportedly 1m for chaplin and 2m for bayliss. That's going to be a minimum profit 2.5m in the accounts. I assume the plan is to sell players each year to cover losses whether at st Andrew's or elsewhere.

Lot of the annual losses are the interest charges. Approx 1.8m. However I would assume that this would be added to the debt again so is really a paper transaction. Whilst it shows in the accounts as part of the losses it doesn't mean a cash loss to cover

Reportedly the rent at st Andrew's is 3 times that at the ricoh. Say approx 300k match day expenses at ricoh were 350k so say 500k at st Andrew's. So at least 400k up on last year

The other incomes on crowds of 5000 is not going to be big figures turnover wise despite what has been said. But then you have to take out the direct costs and account for it being shared. It might be better than at ricoh but it isnt going to be massive. Also the ricoh crowds 12000 st Andrew's 5000 the deal might be better percentage but it could still be little different in total. Used to be f&b profit share 15% at ricoh on current crowds it would need to be over double that 30%+ at st Andrew's.

Crowds of 5000 are going to mean lower match day income probably down 1m from last season.

I would think the aim is to run at a level where losses only equate to the interest charge. That means at break even cash flow wise and no or minimal loans from sisu (bank of last resort basis as has been the case over last 3 or 4 years)

We wont actually know until February 2021
Click to expand...
The Club are putting on coaches to St Andrews for 5 pounds return, i would think that is run at a loss or at best break even if enough people use them. Also ticket prices are reduced so you can't compare 5000 or 6000 to the same amount last season unless we are making more via F&B, car parks etc. I would guess at approx 2 million, but without the real figures nobody knows for sure.
 
Gibbo

Gibbo

Well-Known Member
oldskyblue58 said:
Just guessing at somewhere between 1m to 2m losses this season.

You have to, for this season at least, factor in the profits on player sales. Reportedly 1m for chaplin and 2m for bayliss. That's going to be a minimum profit 2.5m in the accounts. I assume the plan is to sell players each year to cover losses whether at st Andrew's or elsewhere.

Lot of the annual losses are the interest charges. Approx 1.8m. However I would assume that this would be added to the debt again so is really a paper transaction. Whilst it shows in the accounts as part of the losses it doesn't mean a cash loss to cover

Reportedly the rent at st Andrew's is 3 times that at the ricoh. Say approx 300k match day expenses at ricoh were 350k so say 500k at st Andrew's. So at least 400k up on last year

The other incomes on crowds of 5000 is not going to be big figures turnover wise despite what has been said. But then you have to take out the direct costs and account for it being shared. It might be better than at ricoh but it isnt going to be massive. Also the ricoh crowds 12000 st Andrew's 5000 the deal might be better percentage but it could still be little different in total. Used to be f&b profit share 15% at ricoh on current crowds it would need to be over double that 30%+ at st Andrew's.

Crowds of 5000 are going to mean lower match day income probably down 1m from last season.

I would think the aim is to run at a level where losses only equate to the interest charge. That means at break even cash flow wise and no or minimal loans from sisu (bank of last resort basis as has been the case over last 3 or 4 years)

We wont actually know until February 2021
Click to expand...
In which case who is the next one to sell - Mason?
 
L

luwalla

Well-Known Member
wingy said:
It cost us circa £4M lost income during the Six fields season.
Click to expand...
dont think we can compare the two... six fields was mostly a stay away, what was the average crowd 1500 ? we are getting 5-6k at bham. less the ricoh granted, but aren't w getting share of match day revenue, which we didnt get at ricoh ?
 
T

theferret

Well-Known Member
The average league gate so far this season is 6442, so not the 5K people keep referring to. This is before we've played many of the bigger sides who'll bring large followings. We might feasibly get 11-12K when we play Sunderland. But there will be the odd 4K gate for midweek games.

We might feasibly finish up with a 7K average if things go well, so perhaps the financial hit won't be that significant. That said, I do believe gates will fall if we face a second season there. Everyone knows that, so this has to be resolved before next season somehow. It isn't sustainable.
 
Ricketts

Ricketts

Well-Known Member
We don't lose money at St Andrews.

What I assume you mean, is how much more would we make if we had our own stadium, or were playing at the Ricoh for [allegedly] rent and [presumably] higher attendances.

Or if we built a new stadium, what would be the comparatdive financial position after allowing for the interest on the capital expenditure.
 
stevefloyd

stevefloyd

Well-Known Member
Hopefully our form continues and the gates go up...everyone loves a winner look a few seasons back when we was doing well with Armstrong in the team the gates went up to 17000 until we fucked it up
 
Adge

Adge

Well-Known Member
stevefloyd said:
Hopefully our form continues and the gates go up...everyone loves a winner look a few seasons back when we was doing well with Armstrong in the team the gates went up to 17000 until we fucked it up
Click to expand...
Indeed. Be interesting to see if come April and we are in the top 6 if the crowds may rise significantly?
 
pusbccfc

pusbccfc

Well-Known Member
pipkin73 said:
The Club are putting on coaches to St Andrews for 5 pounds return, i would think that is run at a loss or at best break even if enough people use them. Also ticket prices are reduced so you can't compare 5000 or 6000 to the same amount last season unless we are making more via F&B, car parks etc. I would guess at approx 2 million, but without the real figures nobody knows for sure.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure they will be losing on those coaches.


All the other pubs are running them at 5 quid return (albeit earning money on beer prior to the journey).

That said, if they made 50p per person, that equals to very little. In the same way that if they lost 50p a person, it would also be little.
 
clint van damme

clint van damme

Well-Known Member
I see Robins is appealling to fans to get to the games and "bridge the financial gap".

That suggests to me that the back to the Ricoh in October rumours which were once again doing the rounds yesterday may be wide of the mark.
 
Adge

Adge

Well-Known Member
clint van damme said:
I see Robins is appealling to fans to get to the games and "bridge the financial gap".

That suggests to me that the back to the Ricoh in October rumours which were once again doing the rounds yesterday may be wide of the mark.
Click to expand...
Mmmm, sounds like that has/is from the top.
 
Sky Blue Harry H

Sky Blue Harry H

Well-Known Member
theferret said:
The average league gate so far this season is 6442, so not the 5K people keep referring to. This is before we've played many of the bigger sides who'll bring large followings. We might feasibly get 11-12K when we play Sunderland. But there will be the odd 4K gate for midweek games.

We might feasibly finish up with a 7K average if things go well, so perhaps the financial hit won't be that significant. That said, I do believe gates will fall if we face a second season there. Everyone knows that, so this has to be resolved before next season somehow. It isn't sustainable.
Click to expand...

Depends which division we're in !! Championship teams will bring bigger followings. I think Birmingham would fill their allocation?!
 
T

theferret

Well-Known Member
pusbccfc said:
I'm not sure they will be losing on those coaches.


All the other pubs are running them at 5 quid return (albeit earning money on beer prior to the journey).

That said, if they made 50p per person, that equals to very little. In the same way that if they lost 50p a person, it would also be little.
Click to expand...

The club are losing money on the coaches and are having to subsidise EST to run them.
 
ccfcchris

ccfcchris

Well-Known Member
oldskyblue58 said:
Just guessing at somewhere between 1m to 2m losses this season.

You have to, for this season at least, factor in the profits on player sales. Reportedly 1m for chaplin and 2m for bayliss. That's going to be a minimum profit 2.5m in the accounts. I assume the plan is to sell players each year to cover losses whether at st Andrew's or elsewhere.

Lot of the annual losses are the interest charges. Approx 1.8m. However I would assume that this would be added to the debt again so is really a paper transaction. Whilst it shows in the accounts as part of the losses it doesn't mean a cash loss to cover

Reportedly the rent at st Andrew's is 3 times that at the ricoh. Say approx 300k match day expenses at ricoh were 350k so say 500k at st Andrew's. So at least 400k up on last year

The other incomes on crowds of 5000 is not going to be big figures turnover wise despite what has been said. But then you have to take out the direct costs and account for it being shared. It might be better than at ricoh but it isnt going to be massive. Also the ricoh crowds 12000 st Andrew's 5000 the deal might be better percentage but it could still be little different in total. Used to be f&b profit share 15% at ricoh on current crowds it would need to be over double that 30%+ at st Andrew's.

Crowds of 5000 are going to mean lower match day income probably down 1m from last season.

I would think the aim is to run at a level where losses only equate to the interest charge. That means at break even cash flow wise and no or minimal loans from sisu (bank of last resort basis as has been the case over last 3 or 4 years)

We wont actually know until February 2021
Click to expand...
What kind of attendance would we need to actually be in profit playing at St Andrews?
 
Hobo

Hobo

Well-Known Member
Nobody knows because we dont know the agreement around rent etc., but also how the attendances will be over the season.
 
ccfcway

ccfcway

Well-Known Member
clint van damme said:
I see Robins is appealling to fans to get to the games and "bridge the financial gap".

That suggests to me that the back to the Ricoh in October rumours which were once again doing the rounds yesterday may be wide of the mark.
Click to expand...

October which year ?. I just can't see a path back in the short / medium term.
 
chiefdave

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
clint van damme said:
I see Robins is appealling to fans to get to the games and "bridge the financial gap".

That suggests to me that the back to the Ricoh in October rumours which were once again doing the rounds yesterday may be wide of the mark.
Click to expand...
Not that I think we're going back to the Ricoh in October but I wouldn't read too much into Robins' comments, he's been saying the same thing since it was announced we were moving.
 
ccfcway

ccfcway

Well-Known Member
chiefdave said:
Not that I think we're going back to the Ricoh in October but I wouldn't read too much into Robins' comments, he's been saying the same thing since it was announced we were moving.
Click to expand...

At least he’s saying something. Nowt from the owners
 
torchomatic

torchomatic

Well-Known Member
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