The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (147 Viewers)

[Astute]

Here’s the effect a $15 minimum wage has on jobs and poverty in low-income areas, according to a new study from Berkeley

According to a new study.....

Put someone like yourself in charge and you would find things to say that disagrees with the previous studies.

 

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[clint van damme]

Which is £5.80 so don't understand why you champion it so much.

Not in 29 states it isn't and the rise in those states. And I have linked a report stating it has stimulated the economy in those states. And I'm not championing it, but I believe it works, as I stated, the report states 60 percent of the average wage is the tipping point and we're not to far away from that in the UK, (Grendel has linked a report that contradicts that so make your own mind up).

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

No. Putting a bit of reality to what you make out to be an easy thing to do.

How about yourself? If non skilled workers earned nearly as much as yourself would you want more? What would the use be of going to university if there wasn't much of a financial boost for many?

It isn't me not saying people shouldn't earn more. It is me being realistic.

£10/h works out at under £20k per year which is still some way below the average salary and still less than the starting salary for most graduate professions. For example, an NQT starts on £23k. As has already been pointed out very few employers solely employ minimum wage earners and the costs to businesses would not go up necessarily by the same % as the wage increase. The evidence shows that indeed if the increase is too steep too soon, it will hurt employment. But if the increase is measured, it reduces poverty without losing jobs since businesses are able to raise prices to cover the costs. There is also the economic benefit of low earners having more to spend back into the local economy, and greater wellbeing from not being on the financial edge.

Of course it’s not the only possible solution-trials with universal basic incomes could be worth pursuing instead.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

According to a new study.....

Put someone like yourself in charge and you would find things to say that disagrees with the previous studies.

It isn’t the only one, just the most recent.

 

[skybluetony176]

There is off course the argument that £10 isn’t enough. People forget that wages contracted after 2008 and only started rising again 4 years ago, even then when adjusted for inflation IIRC wages again contracted last year. All this means that if wages had have carried on rising at pre 2008 levels minimum wage would have already been above £10 an hour depending on age. This labour policy could actually be seen as a correction of that as much as anything else.

 

[Astute]

Not in 29 states it isn't and the rise in those states. And I have linked a report stating it has stimulated the economy in those states. And I'm not championing it, but I believe it works, as I stated, the report states 60 percent of the average wage is the tipping point and we're not to far away from that in the UK, (Grendel has linked a report that contradicts that so make your own mind up).

Yet you ignore most states have a minimum wage less than ours. So yes it helps. But would it help for ours to be 33% higher than it is now?

 

[clint van damme]

Yet you ignore most states have a minimum wage less than ours. So yes it helps. But would it help for ours to be 33% higher than it is now?

As usual, I've answered your question in previous posts but like you do with everyone you only read what you want to.

Read the post yesterday I made at 1.51pm.
If you don't understand that's your problem but nowhere have I even got close to suggesting the minimum wage should be raised by 33%.
I've no idea where you get that from.

 

[Astute]

The evidence shows that indeed if the increase is too steep too soon, it will hurt employment.

So you do actually agree with what I am saying.

 

[Astute]

As usual, I've answered your question in previous posts but like you do with everyone you only read what you want to.

Read the post yesterday I made at 1.51pm.
If you don't understand that's your problem but nowhere have I even got close to suggesting the minimum wage should be raised by 33%.
I've no idea where you get that from.

£10 an hour is the stated amount it should go up to. Correct?

Someone said the average for the minimum wage is £7.50. A third of this is £2.50 and a third is 33%.

Or what do you say it should be if it isn't a tenner an hour?

You didn't answer any question. You stated how many US states pay over £5.80 an hour minimum wage. But you didn't mention most are lower than the UK. Yet you put their minimum wage as being good for their economy. If their average minimum wage was higher than ours I would be able to understand your point.

 

[clint van damme]

£10 an hour is the stated amount it should go up to. Correct?

Someone said the average for the minimum wage is £7.50. A third of this is £2.50 and a third is 33%.

Or what do you say it should be if it isn't a tenner an hour?

You didn't answer any question. You stated how many US states pay over £5.80 an hour minimum wage. But you didn't mention most are lower than the UK. Yet you put their minimum wage as being good for their economy. If their average minimum wage was higher than ours I would be able to understand your point.

I've told you what the study, not me, a study by economic experts in the States said the tipping point is.
I linked the article which says that the States which have gone above the federal minimum which you keep going on about have actually saw their economies stimulated.

I posted what that would happen to the minimum wage in this country if we took it up to the 60% tipping point in this country. In doing so I did not mention 33% increases or 10 Pound an hour.

 

[Astute]

I've told you what the study, not me, a study by economic experts in the States said the tipping point is.
I linked the article which says that the States which have gone above the federal minimum which you keep going on about have actually saw their economies stimulated.

I posted what that would happen to the minimum wage in this country if we took it up to the 60% tipping point in this country. In doing so I did not mention 33% increases or 10 Pound an hour.

So do you disagree with the £10 an hour most are quoting?

 

[clint van damme]

So do you disagree with the £10 an hour most are quoting?

I have already said the 60% tipping point would take the UK to around 9 Pound.
Why don't you read posts that you comment on?

Though I was merely hilighting one study. Grendel linked one that contradicted it saying it had had a negative impact on the States that had gone above the federal minimum I'm sure there are studies which are in favour of going above £10 and put the tipping point above.
I think the proof is in the pudding and it should be pushed up as far a feasibly possible.
I think people who work should be rewarded as much as possible.

 

[Astute]

I have already said the 60% tipping point would take the UK to around 9 Pound.
Why don't you read posts that you comment on?

Though I was merely hilighting one study. Grendel linked one that contradicted it saying it had had a negative impact on the States that had gone above the federal minimum I'm sure there are studies which are in favour of going above £10 and put the tipping point above.
I think the proof is in the pudding and it should be pushed up as far a feasibly possible.
I think people who work should be rewarded as much as possible.

I agree with reward. I want everyone earning a decent wage. But like I said we need to keep inflation down. Otherwise the pay rise would be lost to inflation.

 

[Grendel]

Double? What do you think minimum wage is?

Tony what is the minimum legal wage in the country? - why don’t you be honest and admit you had zero idea of labours laughable idea to make even 16 year year olds get the wage? Did you know it Tony?

As for the rather ridiculous claim I didn’t and thought 45 year olds may be paid under £5 an hour - ok

Which party are you supporting next week? Shall we do a poll on it

Also as astute has pointed out the actual increase on the next level is 33%

 

[skybluetony176]

So you’re talking about a very narrow aspect of the employment window then and using it as a broad stroke. Your argument doesn’t stand up for that simple reason you’re trying to weight it with misinformation.

Er no I’m staring a fact and according to you hardly anyone is in the minimum wage so actually the employment impact it will effect the most - according to you - is that sector.

No you’re not. You’re quite deliberately not distinguishing the correlation between age group and minimum wage for that age group. You’re deliberately blurring the facts and when anyone does that the only point you make is that you don’t have a point.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

So you do actually agree with what I am saying.

Yes and no, I don't think that £10 will have the effect you're predicting.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

I agree with reward. I want everyone earning a decent wage. But like I said we need to keep inflation down. Otherwise the pay rise would be lost to inflation.

Which is why the increase would be exclusively at the bottom end.

 

[Astute]

Yes and no, I don't think that £10 will have the effect you're predicting.

Shop workers are on minimum wage a lot of the time. A lot of shops are not doing well. How many of these chains could afford a big wage increase? Hotels and caterers not doing well?

There is a big list of those companies not making a fortune. And you have additional costs that go with higher wages. You need to consider more than the very profitable companies.

Then as I keep saying it is all to do with inflation. Wage inflation. Prices go up to cover higher wages. Not everyone like yourself works for the government. Who we work for has to make a profit or we lose our job. Many jobs are lost to other countries where labour is cheaper.

That is the reality. Higher wages have to be paid for. And before you say it I haven't said high wages. It has to be done sensibly.

 

[shmmeee]

My understanding is that the DWP is of the same opinion and anyone claiming top-up payments is now required to spend a minimum number of hours a week looking for better-paid employment, even if they are already working full time?

Ridiculous. Either it’s OK for people to earn that little or its not. Regardless of the NMW the entire job seekers system needs a serious review, it’s not fit for purpose.

 

[shmmeee]

Shop workers are on minimum wage a lot of the time. A lot of shops are not doing well. How many of these chains could afford a big wage increase? Hotels and caterers not doing well?

There is a big list of those companies not making a fortune. And you have additional costs that go with higher wages. You need to consider more than the very profitable companies.

Then as I keep saying it is all to do with inflation. Wage inflation. Prices go up to cover higher wages. Not everyone like yourself works for the government. Who we work for has to make a profit or we lose our job. Many jobs are lost to other countries where labour is cheaper.

That is the reality. Higher wages have to be paid for. And before you say it I haven't said high wages. It has to be done sensibly.

By this logic business should be allowed to steal stock from other shops. I mean if you didn’t let them do that they might not have a viable business!!

We set regulations all the time to ensure business doesn’t exploit its stakeholders. Decent business owners have no issue making a profit. That’s the great beauty of capitalism: it isn’t fragile and will wring the best out of whatever constraints you put on it.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Shop workers are on minimum wage a lot of the time. A lot of shops are not doing well. How many of these chains could afford a big wage increase? Hotels and caterers not doing well?

There is a big list of those companies not making a fortune. And you have additional costs that go with higher wages. You need to consider more than the very profitable companies.

Then as I keep saying it is all to do with inflation. Wage inflation. Prices go up to cover higher wages. Not everyone like yourself works for the government. Who we work for has to make a profit or we lose our job. Many jobs are lost to other countries where labour is cheaper.

That is the reality. Higher wages have to be paid for. And before you say it I haven't said high wages. It has to be done sensibly.

If a business can't handle paying its workers enough to live, should it stay in business? Equally, if a full time job doesn't offer security, what incentive is there to get one?

 

[Grendel]

If a business can't handle paying its workers enough to live, should it stay in business? Equally, if a full time job doesn't offer security, what incentive is there to get one?

Don’t worry I’m sure we are complying with workers rights under Eu legislation - where is your problem?

 

[skybluetony176]

Tobias Elwood had some interesting things to say on C4 news. He is expecting Boris to come back with a deal from the EU summit next month, it doesn’t sound like he’s expecting it to be different from May Mk1 deal and he’s expecting the Extreme Right Group to vote for it or face expulsion like the other rebels.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Don’t worry I’m sure we are complying with workers rights under Eu legislation - where is your problem?

Now you mention it around 450,000 workers are being paid less than the minimum wage according to most recent figures.

 

[Grendel]

Now you mention it around 450,000 workers are being paid less than the minimum wage according to most recent figures.

Where? Across Europe?

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Where? Across Europe?

In the UK:

Number of people not being paid minimum wage on rise: report - BelfastTelegraph.co.uk

 

[Sick Boy]

Tobias Elwood had some interesting things to say on C4 news. He is expecting Boris to come back with a deal from the EU summit next month, it doesn’t sound like he’s expecting it to be different from May Mk1 deal and he’s expecting the Extreme Right Group to vote for it or face expulsion like the other rebels.

Yeah wouldn’t be surprised he will just repackage it.

 

[Grendel]

In the UK:

Number of people not being paid minimum wage on rise: report - BelfastTelegraph.co.uk

Shocking. Is it likely to increase or decrease if we put it up? What’s it like across Europe?

 

[Ian1779]

Tobias Elwood had some interesting things to say on C4 news. He is expecting Boris to come back with a deal from the EU summit next month, it doesn’t sound like he’s expecting it to be different from May Mk1 deal and he’s expecting the Extreme Right Group to vote for it or face expulsion like the other rebels.

The irony being had he not expelled 20 MP’s with the ERG on board it probably would have gotten through.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Shocking. Is it likely to increase or decrease if we put it up? What’s it like across Europe?

If something is difficult to attain does that mean we shouldn't bother trying?

 

[skybluetony176]

The irony being had he not expelled 20 MP’s with the ERG on board it probably would have gotten through.

You’re making it sound like that was the plan all along.

 

[Astute]

If a business can't handle paying its workers enough to live, should it stay in business? Equally, if a full time job doesn't offer security, what incentive is there to get one?

Yeah. You are OK on your teachers wage. But anyone on minimum wage should be thrown on the unemployed list?

Have you seen the state of high streets all across the country? Yeah lets just close them all.

 

[dutchman]

Shocking. Is it likely to increase or decrease if we put it up? What’s it like across Europe?

I know Primark was recently had up in Holland for paying less than the legal minimum wage and also for failing to accept union representation as required by Dutch law.

The Dutch state pension is also fixed at 70% of the legal minimum wage for single people and 50% each for married couples. (Not as great as it sounds as Dutch pensioners are also required to pay national insurance contributions and health insurance premiums).

 

[Alan Dugdales Moustache]

Jo swineson has just been eaten alive by Piers Morgan on GMB.
Watch it if you get the chance. Great stuff. She's completely mad.

 

[martcov]

Shocking. Is it likely to increase or decrease if we put it up? What’s it like across Europe?

They are trying to have an EU wide minimum wage based on a percentage of average wage. As countries have different wage levels, it can only be done as a percentage. In Germany it is 9,19€ at present and 9,35€ from 01. January.