Would another promotion propel Robins into the same legendary status as Jimmy Hill (11 Viewers)
- Thread starter Evo1883
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Evo1883
Well-Known Member
No I agree, take this more as a general question though as opposed to this season specific
lifeskyblue
Well-Known Member
Robins has done and is doing really well with limited resources. One of our best certainly but a legend in the mould of Jimmy Hill...no not for me.
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Gibbo
Well-Known Member
Sillett was a one hit wonder. Hill did it in easier times. Robins getting us promoted given the backdrop would be a massive achievement
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
Would put him a clear second to Hill. Hill is probably insurmountable due to the off field stuff he did as well (the kit, nickname, song, etc.) having such a lasting impact.
Now if he got us a new ground....
Edit: I voted no, but actually should be yes. He’ll be in the same category, but not at the same level.
Now if he got us a new ground....
Edit: I voted no, but actually should be yes. He’ll be in the same category, but not at the same level.
Gosb
Well-Known Member
I'm a great fan of Mark Robins, but Jimmy Hill not only got us promoted twice into the then Division One but lead the Sky Blue revolution with new colours, the Sky Blue song, the Sky Blue radio, the Sky Blue express and significant improvements to Highfield Road. He later returned to the club to be Managing Director and Chairman. So I don't think Mark is ready for his statue just yet, but I hope he does enough to earn one.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
Sillet a one hit wonder? We were in the top 3 at one point the next March had 3 top 10 finishes and a league cup semi final
Grendel
Well-Known Member
You honestly are either clueless or wumming
Skyblueweeman
Well-Known Member
Agree with G and Shmmeee...
I wasn't around in the JH era so hard to understand the impact but just knowing about it, JH transformed the club on and off the pitch, gave the club an identity. I think it MR got us back to the EPL and we still didn't have a ground/were playing at Stans, then I think he'd deserve to be recognised as similar to JH in what they had done for the club.
Defo the best manager in my lifetime (39).
I wasn't around in the JH era so hard to understand the impact but just knowing about it, JH transformed the club on and off the pitch, gave the club an identity. I think it MR got us back to the EPL and we still didn't have a ground/were playing at Stans, then I think he'd deserve to be recognised as similar to JH in what they had done for the club.
Defo the best manager in my lifetime (39).
Grendel
Well-Known Member
Strachan once made a valid point in the season we were achieving and close to a FA Cup semi final
He said the managers who went before him were far more successful than him for keeping the club when it had zero resources in the top flight every single year.
Many managers and players kept a seemingly impossible record possible
I get the hype but robins is not a higher league manager and has competitive resources.
It’s a bit silly to compare him to the likes of Sillett, Milne, Sexton etc even the much maligned Phil Neal has a good record with us
Under Sillett we finished 10th, 10th, 7th and 12th in the top flight, won the FA Cup and reached two other cup semi-finals. He was a terrific manager.
Sky_Blue_Dreamer
Well-Known Member
Not instantly but I think his stock would rise over time to be mentioned along with, but not alongside, Hill. If for no other reason than the complete change Hill made to the club and its operations all round, not just on the pitch (even though that was impressive)
Hill was also very well backed by his chairman at the time and although MR has been backed to a certain extent he does have more constraints to work with overall. Some people may also point out MR's defection in his first stint but JH also left us in the lurch on the eve of the big time to go to TV, but because it wasn't another team for some reason it doesn't seem as bad.
Hill was also very well backed by his chairman at the time and although MR has been backed to a certain extent he does have more constraints to work with overall. Some people may also point out MR's defection in his first stint but JH also left us in the lurch on the eve of the big time to go to TV, but because it wasn't another team for some reason it doesn't seem as bad.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
How on earth has it changed since Silletts era? What manager would transform a club from constant relegation scrappers in the top flight to every season a top half finish, huge attendance increases, a cup winner, two semi finals?
What has actually changed in reality?
Skyblueweeman
Well-Known Member
To you last point...agreed but its a good discussion point though, silly or otherwise. A debate about who is better...the Beatles or the Stones, Messi or Ronaldo, Liverpool in the 80s or Utd in the 90s...all harmless fun to garner some decent discussion points.
To the main content of your post, again, I don't disagree with you (or GS) are saying. From my point of view, and in my lifetime, MR has been the best manager, better than those mentioned for a number of reasons:
* His win %s for both stints are 1st and 6th (I think) on our all time list, according to Wiki.
* He's won one promotion and another piece of Silverware during his tenures. Only 3 other managers have won 2 cups when with us (Hill, Frith and Storer).
* I would argue your point about resources. I don't think they're as great as you mention but certainly other managers have had similar (if not better) resources than MR and 'underachieved'.
* Despite his 'sky blue blood' statement then jumping ship, he's loyalty to the club in this second stint, arguably the most turbulent time in history, has been great. Only Strachan has hung around longer since Sillett/Curtis. And he got us relegated with a decent squad.
* Qualitatively, there just seems to be a positive undercurrent at the club. Not on all fronts, granted, but despite the off the field stuff, what MR has done in terms of getting teams together to fight for success at relevant levels and creating some optimism for us long suffering fans, is brilliant.
Back to your first point...I'm sure you'll disagree with the above...not because you're G but because you see things different to I, as will others. I stand by my comment that MR isn't in JHs category yet but he's doing everything he can to get to that level of reverence.
Evo1883
Well-Known Member
Do you slightly dislike Robins?
Grendel
Well-Known Member
No but it’s silly to compare him to a highly successful manager in the top flight who - for the record - achieved a similar success in the lower leagues with Hereford as is being hypothesised here
clint van damme
Well-Known Member
Love the style of football we're playing under Robins. The lower league thing doesn't really bother me, I just like to watch good football.
We played some spectacular stuff under Sillett, not just in 87. I also think we took our foot off the gas after the semi final in 87, if there had been Europe at stake, or even the ridiculous financial rewards there currently are for each place further up the league you finish I think that team could of got top 6.
Wasn't around for the Hill era, (well, was a baby), but it looked amazing, would love to have been at the Wolves game.
We played some spectacular stuff under Sillett, not just in 87. I also think we took our foot off the gas after the semi final in 87, if there had been Europe at stake, or even the ridiculous financial rewards there currently are for each place further up the league you finish I think that team could of got top 6.
Wasn't around for the Hill era, (well, was a baby), but it looked amazing, would love to have been at the Wolves game.
fatso
Well-Known Member
Some fuckers just want an argument!
Hill is a legend
Snoz is a legend
Milne defo deserves some sort of status,
And IF he gets us into the championship, MR will be joining that band (quite where in the order is open to debate, but ultimately irrelevant)
We are top of the league, letts just enjoy it!!!
Hill is a legend
Snoz is a legend
Milne defo deserves some sort of status,
And IF he gets us into the championship, MR will be joining that band (quite where in the order is open to debate, but ultimately irrelevant)
We are top of the league, letts just enjoy it!!!
covcity4life
Well-Known Member
yes yes yes
ccfc92
Well-Known Member
I can't quite work out if that's a serious comment. You think football is the same now compared to 1990?
DannyThomas_1981
Well-Known Member
Agree with all of this - MR joins the elite club above (but only after establishing us as a top 10 Championship team).
There's a big argument that Milne is actually ahead of Sillett - long record in the top flight and consistently evolving and building brilliant teams. Milne's overall record in management is outstanding.
Sillett is obviously a legend and a complete icon - the only question mark there is his record in the transfer market and how the team evolved after the FA Cup win.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
In what way is if different in relative terms for a club like ours?
ccfc92
Well-Known Member
Mainly money involved in the game plus we don't own our own ground anymore for one?
Grendel
Well-Known Member
Many clubs do not own their own ground?
The money relatively makes little difference.
Ccfc were for years a relegation threatened club who became an established top half club in the top league under Sillett
So by your argument Nathan Jones at Luton was a better manager than David Pleat.
Really?
ccfc92
Well-Known Member
Apparently, we can't compete in the championship on our current financial model, so which one is it?
Gazolba
Well-Known Member
No, Jimmy Hill overhauled the club from top to bottom.
Changed our nickname, changed our strip colours, signed top players (world-record fee for a goal-keeper).
We became the first in so many things, first electronic scoreboard, first club to broadcast away games etc.
In short, he did much more than just get us promoted twice (and both times as Champions).
There's a reason he has a statue. I doubt whether Robins ever will.
Changed our nickname, changed our strip colours, signed top players (world-record fee for a goal-keeper).
We became the first in so many things, first electronic scoreboard, first club to broadcast away games etc.
In short, he did much more than just get us promoted twice (and both times as Champions).
There's a reason he has a statue. I doubt whether Robins ever will.
Irish Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
I agree with most of what you say, I just feel that you are a little harsh on JH when you say he left us in the lurch. If you read his autobiography it explains the circumstances. He wanted a ten year contract, Robbins, the chairman at the time, wouldn’t agree. However Jimmy says that he was disappointed that the board never came back to him with a compromise offer. It sounded like he very much wanted to stay but no talks took place. He also agreed to stay on as manager until a new man was appointed. He consequently managed the club for the first 12 matches in the first division, rather than simply walking away. I wonder where the club would have got to if he had stayed as at that time and in that era, winning the league was open to virtually any club who were managed and well run and wasn’t ring fenced by money in favour of whoever is in the current top six as in the PL today.
I really like MR, liked him first time he was here and was really pleased he came back. I don’t know why but this club and Robins just seem to suit each other. However, for me he has some way to go to compete with someone like JH who transformed everything about Coventry City. In a list of all time managers I would say he was behind Hill, Sillett Milne and Storer, not that I was around during the latter’s time in charge.
DannyThomas_1981
Well-Known Member
Good post. I much prefer watching this style of football vs. the hoof-ball under Mackay for example.
Also L1 and L2 seems like a more even playing field vs. the Premiership (=the big 3 or 4 backed by multi-billionaires and the rest just happy to avoid relegation).
There was just a short period of time during the Boateng/Huckerby/Dublin/Whelan/McAllister era. when I felt that we could match any team in the Prem - and I hold Strachan entirely responsible for not evolving that team and taking us forward.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
Nor could Hereford in the 70’s and I’m talking top flight success