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Grendel

Grendel

Well-Known Member
oscillatewildly said:
I'm gonna make use of your inverted coma's and that vague bell ringing somewhere - Were we briefly linked with Gareth Bale?
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Nope he’s not a big player in physique - we signed another striker instead from Norwich who was shite
 
Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Well-Known Member
Grendel said:
Rubbish

For a start kastaneer has played as a centre forward in his career

Bakayoko has often not played as a centre forward - so do you not count yesterday’s goal as he was playing inside forward?

Robins doesn’t play wingers ever now it’s a fallacy he has 3 forwards all who move into positions depending where and who has the ball

I don’t think he played there for Walsall often either did he?

The comparison originally was forward players - Jones is clearly as much a forward as bright and last season he was included and as I say you’d have to chalk off all the goals Baka scored when he was not in the striker position for the game
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So Kastaneer has played as a centre forward. Willis and Osbourne played at right back, Morrell played at right wing. Dublin played as centre back. Fact is his favoured position is a wider role. Similar with Bakayoko - his favoured position is central although he has played in a wider role at times. Besides, if you consider him as a wider forward surely it just makes his goals per minute stat look more impressive doesn't it?

I didn't say MR never plays with 'wingers', just that with a forward three it is not a traditional winger role out wide looking to get down the line and cross into the box as he also wants them to come inside and shoot. That is the difference between Jobello and Hiwula - the former wants to play wide like a winger, the latter wants to play more centrally like a striker.

I considered Bright predominantly an ACM rather than an out-and-out forward and Jones I consider to prefer a wider role cutting in.

As I say, for the comparison I ask myself "would I bring them in for that position?" Would I replace Godden with Jones? No, I would not. Would I have replaced him with Bright in the same position? Again the answer is no. The players I would consider to bring in for Godden are predominantly Max and Baka, with also bringing Hiwula in from the wide position albeit we'd probably have to play a bit differently.
 
Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Well-Known Member
Of course the goals per minute stat shouldn't be taken in isolation but it is worthy of consideration in the whole analysis. If a player only plays a very small amount of games before moving on then that needs to be caveated (ie Harford) or if a player is brought on specifically at the end of games to nick a goal so only plays 10-15 minutes against a tiring defence that should also be taken into account or if they're used against inferior opposition in cup games etc. Personally I also think things like penalties should also be given a small amount of consideration in the analysis.

But last season:
Chaplin 22 (10) - 8
Baka 22 (13) - 7
Hiwula 39 (4) - 13 (played wider)
JCH 19 (10) - 6

This:
Godden 9(2) - 4
Baka 4(5) - 2
Hiwula 12(0) - 4 (although he's not played centrally)
Biamou 0(3) - 0

Baka's record in terms of appearances this season and last is comparable to anyone else and so the gpm is largely in this instance is reasonable and a valid one.

Personally I think Baka is a limited footballer and I doubt we will look to renew his contract even if we stay in L1.

Just out of interest I wonder where Pukki currently is in that list? After the first couple of games he must have been near the top as he was on 5 goals in 2 or 3 matches.
 
DannyThomas_1981

DannyThomas_1981

Well-Known Member
Still trying to work out how someone who was completely written off on here by the usual morons ('he's shit') could come off the bench and score a stunning goal like that.

The celebration was fantastic as well - you could see how much it meant to Baka and the team.

As previously written he has the full support of most of our fan base at the games (excluding a couple of idiots on here who may not even attend) - and I'm personally looking forward to seeing what he can do off the bench this year. I guess one or two of our posters ('he's shit and heartless') were even disappointed to see our goal yesterday - and that says everything about their view of the world.
 
Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Well-Known Member
DannyThomas_1981 said:
Still trying to work out how someone who was completely written off on here by the usual morons ('he's shit') could come off the bench and score a stunning goal like that.

The celebration was fantastic as well - you could see how much it meant to Baka and the team.

As previously written he has the full support of most of our fan base at the games (excluding a couple of idiots on here who may not even attend) - and I'm personally looking forward to seeing what he can do off the bench this year. I guess one or two of our posters ('he's shit and heartless') were even disappointed to see our goal yesterday - and that says everything about their view of the world.
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Players can have moments where they exceed their normal level - I reckon a lot of people on here can recall some absolute worldy they scored in Sunday League even though 90% of the time can barely kick a ball in a straight line.

I think/hope that when he's on the pitch the vast majority will be urging him on and wanting him to do well. But that doesn't mean you can't be critical of him at other times and looking over his entire record. On the whole Baka has been largely disappointing with a lot of unnecessary offsides, an inability to use his height and size to his advantage and quite often the lack of good positional sense or a clinical edge in front of goal.

I don't have any agenda against the guy - he seems like a genuine bloke and has created opportunities through hard work closing down opponents.
 
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DannyThomas_1981

DannyThomas_1981

Well-Known Member
Sky_Blue_Dreamer said:
Players can have moments where they exceed their normal level - I reckon a lot of people on here can recall some absolute worldy they scored in Sunday League even though 90% of the time can barely kick a ball in a straight line.

I think/hope that when he's on the pitch the vast majority will be urging him on and wanting him to do well. But that doesn't mean you can be critical of him at other times and looking over his entire record. On the whole Baka has been largely disappointing with a lot of unnecessary offsides, an inability to use his height and size to his advantage and quite often the lack of good positional sense or a clinical edge in front of goal.

I don't have any agenda against the guy - he seems like a genuine bloke and has created opportunities through hard work closing down opponents.
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Wasn't aimed at you Dreamer - in your post for example you constructively point out areas for improvement. And you also state positives about Baka. My annoyance is with posters who seem to delight in calling our players 'shit at football and heartless' without having the first idea as to what it takes to be a professional. I genuinely think it's great that Baka scored that goal to shut a few of them up and was also impressed by Kast off the bench as well - I like his directness and speed. Really good to have competition for places - even on the bench.
 
Grendel

Grendel

Well-Known Member
Sky_Blue_Dreamer said:
Of course the goals per minute stat shouldn't be taken in isolation but it is worthy of consideration in the whole analysis. If a player only plays a very small amount of games before moving on then that needs to be caveated (ie Harford) or if a player is brought on specifically at the end of games to nick a goal so only plays 10-15 minutes against a tiring defence that should also be taken into account or if they're used against inferior opposition in cup games etc. Personally I also think things like penalties should also be given a small amount of consideration in the analysis.

But last season:
Chaplin 22 (10) - 8
Baka 22 (13) - 7
Hiwula 39 (4) - 13 (played wider)
JCH 19 (10) - 6

This:
Godden 9(2) - 4
Baka 4(5) - 2
Hiwula 12(0) - 4 (although he's not played centrally)
Biamou 0(3) - 0

Baka's record in terms of appearances this season and last is comparable to anyone else and so the gpm is largely in this instance is reasonable and a valid one.

Personally I think Baka is a limited footballer and I doubt we will look to renew his contract even if we stay in L1.

Just out of interest I wonder where Pukki currently is in that list? After the first couple of games he must have been near the top as he was on 5 goals in 2 or 3 matches.
Click to expand...

Bakayoko has scored one league goal - I’ll say it again - one league goal
 
Grendel

Grendel

Well-Known Member
Sky_Blue_Dreamer said:
So Godden has 3 and Hiwula 2. Both of those have spent more time on the pitch in league games than Baka has. So what?
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Do you think there is a reason they have played more minutes?
 
ps1948

ps1948

Well-Known Member
DannyThomas_1981 said:
Wasn't aimed at you Dreamer - in your post for example you constructively point out areas for improvement. And you also state positives about Baka. My annoyance is with posters who seem to delight in calling our players 'shit at football and heartless' without having the first idea as to what it takes to be a professional. I genuinely think it's great that Baka scored that goal to shut a few of them up and was also impressed by Kast off the bench as well - I like his directness and speed. Really good to have competition for places - even on the bench.
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There are a few on here who seem to delight in using statistics to "prove" their point, and who relish the opportunity to criticize our players. I'd love to sit near them at a game and hear whether they spout the keyboard rubbish verbally. Whilst being grateful for updates live from the games, I cannot really understand why people spend so much time doing the updates rather than watching the whole match.
 
DannyThomas_1981

DannyThomas_1981

Well-Known Member
Sky_Blue_Dreamer said:
Do you think you'll ever write a reply that doesn't deflect or obfuscate ?
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On all historic and recent evidence - I think the answer is a clear no.

I'm also waiting for a balanced, non-negative, non-condescending and even remotely friendly post from him but I strongly suspect that will never happen either.

It was actually really refreshing to go to a game last week-end for the first time this season and meet decent and positive supporters - restored my faith in our fan base after reading at times some hysterical posts on here to be honest. I guess it's often the case that the negative voices scream most loudly on these sites - I avoid Sky Blues Talk if we ever lose a game for that very reason as the usual suspects go into hysterical meltdown and even seem in some cases to enjoy the fact that we lose in a totally weird way.
 
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