The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (69 Viewers)

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As of right now, how are thinking of voting? In or out

  • Remain

    Votes: 23 37.1%

  • Leave

    Votes: 35 56.5%

  • Undecided

    Votes: 3 4.8%

  • Not registered or not intention to vote

    Votes: 1 1.6%
  • Total voters
    62
  • Poll closed .
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djr8369

Well-Known Member
Astute said:
This is why I constantly say I can't see us leaving. Nothing will be easy to push through.
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As much as it may not feel like it I think the path to remain is still very difficult and unlikely. The path of least resistance has always felt like a compromise deal to me although I’m not sure what or how and the longer things go on the more difficult that seems.





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Sick Boy

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
Astute said:
Our hand kept getting chopped off.

This is exactly where I differ to most on here. It would be like me taking my wife to buy a car and have her constantly saying that we would be happy to pay the full price when I am trying to knock the price down.

So how did the Swiss get such a good agreement? Was it by half of them in charge making new laws to stop a strong negotiating hand? How about the other countries that are not full members?

Yes you are right. They do want to sell us their wares. But they want us to remain much more than anything else. And we have a majority of MP's that want us to remain. And they don't want to have a stronger hand for leave negotiations.

This is why I constantly say I can't see us leaving. Nothing will be easy to push through.
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Switzerland is part of the single market.
 
skybluetony176

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
Astute said:
Our hand kept getting chopped off.

This is exactly where I differ to most on here. It would be like me taking my wife to buy a car and have her constantly saying that we would be happy to pay the full price when I am trying to knock the price down.

So how did the Swiss get such a good agreement? Was it by half of them in charge making new laws to stop a strong negotiating hand? How about the other countries that are not full members?

Yes you are right. They do want to sell us their wares. But they want us to remain much more than anything else. And we have a majority of MP's that want us to remain. And they don't want to have a stronger hand for leave negotiations.

This is why I constantly say I can't see us leaving. Nothing will be easy to push through.
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You’ve changed your tune.

Switzerland are part of EFTA and Schengen. We aren’t and won’t be. Switzerland has followed a beaten path. We’re making it up as we go along.
 
chiefdave

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
Alan Dugdales Moustache said:
Where was this copied from ?
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Yep, you've caught me out there. I did check some of the facts online before posting. Forgot that accuracy wasn't popular these days.

But aside from that anything in there you think is incorrect?

What border controls do you think we will have if we leave with no deal that we can't have as a member of the EU?
 
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SkyblueBazza

Well-Known Member
skybluetony176 said:
So what happened to the Germans still wanting to sell us cars and the French still wanting to sell us cheese and wine? Are you suggesting that the leave campaign were lying? Boris even repeated it in the televised debates of the Tory leadership contest.
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Are you suggesting they don't?

And of course, the Spanish & Italians or Greeks to name but 3 aren't bothered if many of us stay at home instead of taking 2wks in their sunshine are they?

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SkyblueBazza

Well-Known Member
djr8369 said:
The problem is people are so used to the single market they now can’t imagine an actual border.


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People go through & deal across borders in Mexico, the US, Australia & many other non-EU countries.

Why do they need to imagine an actual border? They are there. They know about them.

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SkyblueBazza

Well-Known Member
Alan Dugdales Moustache said:
So does that mean we need to put up a border on the Northern Ireland side (WTO) and the Irish/EU need to put up a border on their side as well , so we get a duplicate or will one border satisfy both the EU and WTO ? Two would be really stupid wouldn't it ? If there is to be one border, which side would it be on ?
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Let's be honest...the WTO is not going to resist very strongly to whatever the biggest trading bloc in the world, & the world's 5th biggest economy come up with. They have a vested interest to help keep the wheels of trade turning.

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SkyblueBazza

Well-Known Member
fernandopartridge said:
The threat of no deal has been there for 3 years and got us precisely nowhere. Bark up another tree.
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Nothing over the last 3yrs has mattered a great deal. It is what happens in the next week or two that that does. And if we get an extension only the two or 3wks before that runs out will matter too.

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SkyblueBazza

Well-Known Member
skybluetony176 said:
Said from the off that our hand was overstated and like others who made the same point got loads of shit for saying so because the French would still want to sell us cheese and wine, the Germans still want to sell us cars, they have more to lose than us and other nonsense along those lines from the leave campaign. No hindsight needed if it was what you were saying all along and I and others were.
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I don't remember anyone at any time saying the French or Germans had more to lose.

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djr8369

Well-Known Member
SkyblueBazza said:
Let's be honest...the WTO is not going to resist very strongly to whatever the biggest trading bloc in the world, & the world's 5th biggest economy come up with. They have a vested interest to help keep the wheels of trade turning.

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Any deviation undermines every other trade agreement in the world.


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SkyblueBazza

Well-Known Member
chiefdave said:
When most people talk of 'taking back control' I strongly suspect they are referring to people not goods yet that is something we already control. We currently monitor air, sea and tunnel and require everyone to pass through passport control with the exception of those from Ireland where the CTA removes the need for passports.

Under EU freedom of movement we can refuse entry on security grounds and require people to leave if they do not find employment and / or have the ability to support themselves within three months of arrival. Of course the home office has never enforced that but that is down to our government not the EU.

This is a common pattern our government was also one of only three EU original members, along with Ireland and Sweden, not to implement transitional restrictions when the EU expanded to include several eastern European countries in 2004.

Similarly it was our government, not the EU, who removed exit checks meaning that since 1998 we have no reliable information on who has and hasn't left the country.

And of course it's important to remember that the largest group entering the UK is consistently non-EU migrants. Our membership, or lack thereof, will make no difference to them.

The additional requirements upon leaving will be to control the flow of goods as our border will now be the border to a different trade area. As we all know that means there is either a border between Ireland and Northern Ireland or a border between the Island of Ireland and Great Britain. Both of which have been ruled out as unacceptable to those living and working in Ireland and Northern Ireland. I can't really see any way around that.
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Off the top of my head...since we trade negatively with the EU we will have a net gain initially from tariffs

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SkyblueBazza

Well-Known Member
clint van damme said:
what about all the other free trade deals we lose access to when we leave the EU?
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Agreements might already be in place to overcome that.

But then of course you think behind the scenes, the Gov't has been playing snooker or chess or anything rather than prepare maybe?

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clint van damme

clint van damme

Well-Known Member
SkyblueBazza said:
Really?

Redirect Notice

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“There is nothing in WTO rules that forces anyone to put up border posts,” said WTO spokesman Keith Rockwell on a visit to Dublin last week.

“Someone has to bring a complaint and say that their interests have been hurt.”

can't see it being long before such a complaint arises, the articles give plausible examples.
 
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djr8369

Well-Known Member
SkyblueBazza said:
Agreements might already be in place to overcome that.

But then of course you think behind the scenes, the Gov't has been playing snooker or chess or anything rather than prepare maybe?

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There’s nowhere near enough agreements in place. Not to even cover a fraction of what would be lost.


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clint van damme

clint van damme

Well-Known Member
SkyblueBazza said:
Agreements might already be in place to overcome that.

But then of course you think behind the scenes, the Gov't has been playing snooker or chess or anything rather than prepare maybe?

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Liam Fox said there would be 40 trade deals waiting to be signed in March, there were 3.
And there's no way they will be as favourable as the ones we had as an EU member. Would you give equal or better terms in a trade deal that gave you access to a market of 60 million over one that gave you access to a market of 450 million?
 
skybluetony176

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
SkyblueBazza said:
Are you suggesting they don't?

And of course, the Spanish & Italians or Greeks to name but 3 aren't bothered if many of us stay at home instead of taking 2wks in their sunshine are they?

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No I’m not suggesting that they don’t, merely pointing out that it’s not the leverage we were led to believe it was. I say we but as I’ve already pointed out to another poster myself and others said from the off that it wasn’t and got slated for it.

The Spanish and Italians as already mentioned in this thread has already taken a number of measures especially for the protection of ex pat pensions that have settled their. Imagine my surprise when I found that out because as we all know the EU is a dictatorship and it’s members have no sovereignty to make its own laws. Well, according to the leavers anyway, but then again they thought we held all the negotiation cards as well.
 
Alan Dugdales Moustache

Alan Dugdales Moustache

Well-Known Member
chiefdave said:
Yep, you've caught me out there. I did check some of the facts online before posting. Forgot that accuracy wasn't popular these days.

But aside from that anything in there you think is incorrect?
What border controls do you think we will have if we leave with no deal that we can't have as a member of the EU?
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No idea whatsoever !
 
Alan Dugdales Moustache

Alan Dugdales Moustache

Well-Known Member
skybluetony176 said:
No I’m not suggesting that they don’t, merely pointing out that it’s not the leverage we were led to believe it was. I say we but as I’ve already pointed out to another poster myself and others said from the off that it wasn’t and got slated for it.

The Spanish and Italians as already mentioned in this thread has already taken a number of measures especially for the protection of ex pat pensions that have settled their. Imagine my surprise when I found that out because as we all know the EU is a dictatorship and it’s members have no sovereignty to make its own laws. Well, according to the leavers anyway, but then again they thought we held all the negotiation cards as well.
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You make a lot of assumptions about leavers.
 
SkyBlueDom26

SkyBlueDom26

Well-Known Member
Brighton Sky Blue said:
LOL
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991.gif

LOL m888888
 
ccfc92

ccfc92

Well-Known Member
I still don't understand how these TV adverts and Gov.uk can say we are leaving on the 31st October, when it's not 100% confirmed?
 
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Deleted member 5849

Guest
ccfc92 said:
I still don't understand how these TV adverts and Gov.uk can say we are leaving on the 31st October, when it's not 100% confirmed?
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tbf it's the date set down.

I'm more annoyed that the adverts don't actually *say* anything, so all they're doing is wasting cash - although given the standard of them, I guess it's not much cash!
 
Alan Dugdales Moustache

Alan Dugdales Moustache

Well-Known Member
ccfc92 said:
I still don't understand how these TV adverts and Gov.uk can say we are leaving on the 31st October, when it's not 100% confirmed?
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It doesn't say which October though to be fair.
 
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