England to walk off pitch if racism happens in the stands (4 Viewers)

[M&B Stand]

True although during the war Bulgaria was a Nazi ally/stooge until the tide turned.

It’s all a bit weird, some Ukrainians, Belarusians and Slavs saw the Germans as some kind of liberators from the Soviet’s. communism really fucked up Eastern Europe (as it does anywhere). Spent time working in the former east Germany during the 90’s, when the wall came down, East Germans went back across and found loads of Turks and other immigrants integrated within west Germany and were like what the fuck.
Loads of racists appeared from behind the iron curtain.

 

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[CJ_covblaze]

A few England fans whistled or booed their national anthem. Completely wrong and shouldn’t be happening. The anger towards those that were doing that was very telling. It’s not the done thing. Stand there quietly and respectfully. There were significantly more of them doing it to ours before. That doesn’t make it right but along with us singing that they’re racist after they've been racist during last night’s game (a game where they had a partial ground closer for previously being racist) it seems to be the main justification from the local press and their manager for them being... racist.

 

[Liquid Gold]

We need to look at ourselves too. Can't be taking the moral high ground on this then going and singing '10 German bombers' when pissed up in Germany.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Homophobic chanting at home games this season

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Can you imagine going abroad for work and being treated like that in an office meeting? Can’t believe they didn’t walk off at 6-0 about 2 mins from the end

 

[CJ_covblaze]

We need to look at ourselves too. Can't be taking the moral high ground on this then going and singing '10 German bombers' when pissed up in Germany.

Correct. This is the idiot element I’ve mentioned.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

My disappointment was that England didn't walk off. They've said they were going to and that they heard plenty of racist abuse after the second warning, so they should have followed through with their threat. Especially in a game you're winning very very comfortably and then run the risk of forfeiting by walking off. Makes a statement and gets a lot more publicity not just here but elsewhere too. Plus it then forces the authorities to actually do something about it. IMO the players bottled it.

 

[oucho]

My disappointment was that England didn't walk off. They've said they were going to and that they heard plenty of racist abuse after the second warning, so they should have followed through with their threat. Especially in a game you're winning very very comfortably and then run the risk of forfeiting by walking off. Makes a statement and gets a lot more publicity not just here but elsewhere too. Plus it then forces the authorities to actually do something about it. IMO the players bottled it.

I know what you mean but I actually think it sends a stronger message to stay on the field and give the oppo a good twatting. If we go off the pitch, the players get jeered off and racism wins.

 

[ccfc92]

My disappointment was that England didn't walk off. They've said they were going to and that they heard plenty of racist abuse after the second warning, so they should have followed through with their threat. Especially in a game you're winning very very comfortably and then run the risk of forfeiting by walking off. Makes a statement and gets a lot more publicity not just here but elsewhere too. Plus it then forces the authorities to actually do something about it. IMO the players bottled it.

I personally think the game should be stopped, then the home fans should be told to leave the stadium. I am not sure walking off the pitch and abandoning the game would matter to these racist cretins, they do not care about the football match.

 

[ccfc92]

I know what you mean but I actually think it sends a stronger message to stay on the field and give the oppo a good twatting. If we go off the pitch, the players get jeered off and racism wins.

A lot of people are against this approach, particularly Ian Wright last night.

 

[SkyblueBazza]

I know what you mean but I actually think it sends a stronger message to stay on the field and give the oppo a good twatting. If we go off the pitch, the players get jeered off and racism wins.

On the one hand I agree, staying on & ignoring it whilst destroying them on the pitch is right. On the other, having said we are going to walk-off...then saying we heard much more racist chanting in the 2nd half but we were playing so well the players decided to stay on (quoting GS on R5Live earlier) it kind of cheapens the stance & lessens racism as an issue for the players being targeted imo.

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[Liquid Gold]

I know what you mean but I actually think it sends a stronger message to stay on the field and give the oppo a good twatting. If we go off the pitch, the players get jeered off and racism wins.

Kicking a ball in a net does fuck all to counter racism.

 

[Otis]

Kicking a ball in a net does fuck all to counter racism.

Depends whose ball it is. If it belongs to a racist, then great.

 

[SkyblueBazza]

Bulgaria is the most racist, backwards country I’ve ever been to. I was considering a holiday here but I definitely won’t be doing that now. The racism is not a football problem. It’s institutionalised within their society. I’ve seen, heard and experienced so much this trip that has concerned and disappointed me that it’d take me too long to write it all so I’ve linked in some tweets (the last one is unbelievable) below to sum it all up. Mainly about the Bulgarian part of the trip but also the attitudes of some towards England fans and the problems that need stamping out within those that travel. In that respect above everything else it needs to be remembered that we’re here to support England. Too many are now turning up thinking it’s acceptable to bring their club or someone else’s into proceedings. Leave your club shirt and chanting at home. Both are not wanted or needed either at home or away games. It gives the opportunity for problems to arise.











Cj Joiner on Twitter

Cj Joiner on Twitter

Cj Joiner on Twitter

Cj Joiner on Twitter

Cj Joiner on Twitter

Cj Joiner on Twitter

Cj Joiner on Twitter

Cj Joiner on Twitter

Cj Joiner on Twitter

Cj Joiner on Twitter

Henry Winter on Twitter

Cj Joiner on Twitter

Most concerning of all. We genuinely couldn’t believe what we were seeing:
Cj Joiner on Twitter

It is shameful they behaved like that toward this guy. Wondering what support you could have shown for him other than opening the door on his way out?

At the moment it reads as though you allowed yourself to be treated as a superior form of life by getting served before him, watched others do likewise, ate your food in front of him while he still waited, opened the door for him & then simply walked away. Maybe you were in fear of others in there or whatever? A stand has to be made at some point though. Like even adding his order to yours at least wpuld have shown some solidarity for the cause.

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[Mcbean]

I felt for their captain when he spent most of half time talking to fans through the fence - cmiiaw but wasn’t this match under crowd restrictions for previous issues - so that had fuck all effect unless it’s a complete closed shop

 

[ccfc92]

It is shameful they behaved like that toward this guy. Wondering what support you could have shown for him other than opening the door on his way out?

At the moment it reads as though you allowed yourself to be treated as a superior form of life by getting served before him, watched others do likewise, ate your food in front of him while he still waited, opened the door for him & then simply walked away. Maybe you were in fear of others in there or whatever? A stand has to be made at some point though. Like even adding his order to yours at least wpuld have shown some solidarity for the cause.

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Think you've jumped to some conclusions there mate.

 

[tisza]

It’s all a bit weird, some Ukrainians, Belarusians and Slavs saw the Germans as some kind of liberators from the Soviet’s. communism really fucked up Eastern Europe (as it does anywhere). Spent time working in the former east Germany during the 90’s, when the wall came down, East Germans went back across and found loads of Turks and other immigrants integrated within west Germany and were like what the fuck.
Loads of racists appeared from behind the iron curtain.

There is a basic racism throughout much of Eastern Europe based on old stereotypes - like racial biology, eugenics etc.
Truth is most of these people have never met or even seen a "black person in the flesh".
I've been working in Eastern Europe for over 20 years and come across it a lot of it.
The main target of Racism is the Roma community as it has a presence in most East European countries.
It's also no coincidence that nationalism is far more prevalent and overt in these countries either.

 

[ccfchoi87]

If you want to ban nations for their fans behaviour, England will never qualify for a tournament again.

 

[Grendel]

Couple of years ago I’d have argued with you, very rarely heard outright racism, possibly because as a white guy that’s not where my attention is tuned.

Since 2016 though it’s becoming rife. Heard one person say “yeah I’m racist so what?” The other day was having a conversation about Brexit and someone actually said “I just voted Leave to get rid of the blacks”. I’m ashamed to admit I was too stunned to say anything and the conversation moved on, I won’t make that mistake again.

What the fuck is happening? I thought we agreed on this decades ago and it all seems to be going backwards. From what you say maybe it’s just people are bolder now.

Really sorry you have to go through that mate.

Awesome let’s turn this into a Brexit discussion

It’s not as prevalent as in the 80’s but still there are and always have been some openly racist people in society.

“Locker room banter” when you are talking to another white person can reveal some truly disturbing people. What amazes me is the lack of discretion some people use when saying it. They are really quite blatant

 

[oucho]

Kicking a ball in a net does fuck all to counter racism.

Disagree - if we can show that the players being booed are superior footballers and are capable of beating the booing team's fans, then it shows the colour of someone's skin is irrelevant.

I do not see how it helps to combat racism if the players respond to racism by walking off - in that case, the racists are winning. If that happen, they'd go home laughing "we booed them off the pitch haha". Don't want that to happen.

 

[Covstu]

If you want to ban nations for their fans behaviour, England will never qualify for a tournament again.

If that’s what it takes to change then surely a small price to pay?

 

[Covstu]

I'll have my "old fogey" rant on this and blame internet & social media.
People sat behind their keyboards have become emboldened to spout all sorts of nasty rubbish including racism. When no-one is stopping them from spouting this rubbish they begin to believe its acceptable and start expressing it more openly in public areas.
Likes of Twitter, FAcebook, google etc. more interested in making money than controlling content and then hide behind arguments of freedom of expression etc.
The rights or wrongs of whether the internet should have unlimited freedom of speech is another argument in itself.

Agree but it also has the huge advantage of bringing ‘like’ minds together very very easily whereas they had to all meet to arrange this type of shit now via SM it’s on a plate

 

[Covstu]

Disagree - if we can show that the players being booed are superior footballers and are capable of beating the booing team's fans, then it shows the colour of someone's skin is irrelevant.

I do not see how it helps to combat racism if the players respond to racism by walking off - in that case, the racists are winning. If that happen, they'd go home laughing "we booed them off the pitch haha". Don't want that to happen.

I’m glad we stayed on, the UEFA process was followed and we stuffed them by 6. I think what this showed was that group was arranged to do this then walk at that stage prior to stage 3. Apparently these guys (or some of them) are employees of the stadium !

 

[oucho]

If you want to ban nations for their fans behaviour, England will never qualify for a tournament again.

That would be no bad thing if our fans are going to trash the city centres of host cities in which they're guests. I, for one, wouldn't lose any sleep if England got a ban until we stamped out the sort of behaviour we saw in Prague the other day.

It's a shame as after the incidents in 1996-2000, it seemed like real progress had been made as had been some years since we'd seen incidents like this - perhaps those responsible now are the kids of the reprobates of those originally banned.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Disagree - if we can show that the players being booed are superior footballers and are capable of beating the booing team's fans, then it shows the colour of someone's skin is irrelevant.

I do not see how it helps to combat racism if the players respond to racism by walking off - in that case, the racists are winning. If that happen, they'd go home laughing "we booed them off the pitch haha". Don't want that to happen.

But if we're beating them by four/five and THEN choose to walk off we prove that they're both superior footballers and makes FIFA/UEFA actually act.

We stayed on the pitch so who out of those organisations is today having to scrabble around trying frantically to work out what to do and having the world press on the phone demanding answers as to what happened and what happens now? No-one. The authorities don't have to deal with the fallout so they'll not care. Had we walked off UEFA and FIFA would be being hit by an absolute shitstorm today, and it'd also have set the precedent to open the floodgates for other teams to follow suit. It'd do far too much harm to their product to let that happen so they'd have to act.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

I personally think the game should be stopped, then the home fans should be told to leave the stadium. I am not sure walking off the pitch and abandoning the game would matter to these racist cretins, they do not care about the football match.

It's not about what the racist cretins think, it's about what the governing bodies think. They are the ones that have the power to change this situation with tournament/playing bans rather than paltry fines and partial stadium closures. They will only start to take the problem seriously when it affects their product and revenues. Teams refusing to play (especially big ones that earn lots of money in tournaments) will do that. Asking people to stop the abuse over the tannoy and stopping the game for 5 minutes won't.

And I include us in that. If our fans are being dickheads then we should be just as open to a ban as anyone else.

 

[Covstu]

But if we're beating them by four/five and THEN choose to walk off we prove that they're both superior footballers and makes FIFA/UEFA actually act.

We stayed on the pitch so who out of those organisations is today having to scrabble around trying frantically to work out what to do and having the world press on the phone demanding answers as to what happened and what happens now? No-one. The authorities don't have to deal with the fallout so they'll not care. Had we walked off UEFA and FIFA would be being hit by an absolute shitstorm today, and it'd also have set the precedent to open the floodgates for other teams to follow suit. It'd do far too much harm to their product to let that happen so they'd have to act.

But if we walked off wouldn’t we have defaulted on the game and lost? The irony is that outcome would have had a straight forward outcome and England would have been punished more than Bulgaria. It’s shit but it’s the likely outcome.

 

[Nick]

Raided by special forces? Police special forces raid Bulgarian Football Union headquarters in Sofia

 

[SkyblueBazza]

Think you've jumped to some conclusions there mate.

No I haven't - if you read it properly mate

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[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

But if we walked off wouldn’t we have defaulted on the game and lost? The irony is that outcome would have had a straight forward outcome and England would have been punished more than Bulgaria. It’s shit but it’s the likely outcome.

That's the point. We know we're going to win that game comfortably, so does everyone else. So it would show how seriously we're taking this situation.

Plus if in that situation if FIFA/UEFA decided the correct thing to do was to deduct us points and award them the win it makes a mockery of thier stance against racism and ruin any credibility they have that they might deal with the situation and their fitness to oversee the game. They would be considered not fit for purpose and an entirely new governing body would be put forward and it would be up to the nations who to affiliate themselves with.

I know lots of people want to see England in tournaments and winning things, but this issue is beyond that and we need some sort term pain for long term gain.

 

[chiefdave]

Good old UEFA. England have been charged with ‘disruption of the national anthem and an insufficient number of travelling stewards‘.

 

[Gazolba]

I think if people just ignored the racist chanting from the crowd and showed no reaction to it, it would eventually cease.
The whole point of their behaviour is to provoke a reaction and they are succeeding in that beyond their wildest dreams.
The media and everyone else has been whipped into a frenzy over it (and so has this forum).
People expressing such outrage every time it happens just encourages them to keep doing it since they know it's working.
But, that said, if they want to continue in the current direction, they should abandon the game and award the three points to the abused team.
That, of course will lead to appeals and maybe even lawsuits.
And how will the people who paid a lot of money and travelled huge distances to watch the game react?

 

[hill83]

I think if people just ignored the racist chanting from the crowd and showed no reaction to it, it would eventually cease.

Of course mate. Good one.

 

[covmark]

I think if people just ignored the racist chanting from the crowd and showed no reaction to it, it would eventually cease.
The whole point of their behaviour is to provoke a reaction and they are succeeding in that beyond their wildest dreams.
The media and everyone else has been whipped into a frenzy over it (and so has this forum).
People expressing such outrage every time it happens just encourages them to keep doing it since they know it's working.
But, that said, if they want to continue in the current direction, they should abandon the game and award the three points to the abused team.
That, of course will lead to appeals and maybe even lawsuits.
And how will the people who paid a lot of money and travelled huge distances to watch the game react?

Jesus christ you post some shite, but this takes the cake.

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[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

I think if people just ignored the racist chanting from the crowd and showed no reaction to it, it would eventually cease.
The whole point of their behaviour is to provoke a reaction and they are succeeding in that beyond their wildest dreams.
The media and everyone else has been whipped into a frenzy over it (and so has this forum).
People expressing such outrage every time it happens just encourages them to keep doing it since they know it's working.
But, that said, if they want to continue in the current direction, they should abandon the game and award the three points to the abused team.
That, of course will lead to appeals and maybe even lawsuits.
And how will the people who paid a lot of money and travelled huge distances to watch the game react?

Bollocks. That was what people were told in the 70's. Did fuck all to sort it out.

Ignore it and they'd do it even more in order to either get the attention they crave or because they saw it as tacit approval of their actions and also embolden others to do the same when they see nothing is done.

If your missus is walking down the street and getting catcalled by a builder do you think it should just be ignored? Next day the guy is doing it louder and longer, then another guy is doing it and before you know it half the building site is yelling at your missus to get her tits out and how I bet she loves it up the arse.