The EU: In, out, shake it all about.... (16 Viewers)

[skybluetony176]

Moggmentum purge of the Tory party continues:



.

Like I said. It’s a cult.

 

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[SkyBlueDom26]

Like I said. It’s a cult.

A cult??? Deluded mate

 

[skybluetony176]

A cult??? Deluded mate

Exactly the response I would expect from a cult member.

 

[djr8369]

Moggmentum purge of the Tory party continues:



This was sent to her, remember an MP that voted for Brexit 3 times!

View attachment 13238



I am too old to understand this comment.

Incredible, isn’t it? Mogg himself voted against it (twice?) and was a major player in preventing us from leaving.

Voters should be turning away from the tories in droves while this toxic behaviour continues.


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[Grendel]

Incredible, isn’t it? Mogg himself voted against it (twice?) and was a major player in preventing us from leaving.

Voters should be turning away from the tories in droves while this toxic behaviour continues.


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really? Who will they vote for then?

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Oh yes the so called experts. All of them have an opinion that differs to the next opinion. These are the same experts that got it wrong on there being a leave vote. But of course they will be right this time......

Yes there will be job losses. But hopefully if it all goes tits up....which I don't think it will....we can go back to making things instead of importing them because they are cheaper to buy than make. And all because we pay a decent wage.

I know that I have been constantly told that I am wrong for the last few years when I have said that the EU will relent right at the end. But they always do. That is why other countries have deals not available to anyone. But what it will look like is anyone's guess. The problem is that the doom mongers are the loudest.

We have a choice. Go to the British government to be in charge who are on the side of the rich or pay to have the EU in charge who are on the side of the rich.

The last line is indeed true. The main Brexiteers are all wealthy who don't want to have to share their influence with others in this country. It's self interest not what will be best for the country.

Like you my main focus of hope is that at some point we will start making things again rather than import, but that will be dependent on tariffs and the companies making decisions on whether it is more financially viable to pay the tariffs or open up a base here. But in order to avoid tariffs somewhere along the line they have to have the entire supply chain here in the UK - that's a big outlay. It's not just about setting up a factory - it's about materials, components etc.

At the moment we have a foothold because as well as the large domestic market manufacturers have access to the even larger EU market. If that goes then as we're seeing at the moment the initial instinct is to have your base in the larger market, which is the EU. Will that change over time? Who knows but my instinct suggests the tariffs will end up being cheaper than setting up an entire operation in the UK, certainly without some form of government incentive being offered. Time will tell but it's going to take a fair while for them to make that decision after we leave.

 

[shmmeee]

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

They will back it

Don't forget Alexander's biggest problem in the leadership was with the MP's, not the members. They won't be voting for anything out of a kindness to him. If many of them could fuck him over they would do so quite happily - he is not popular with them. Even his own family are more than ready to undermine him at any given opportunity.

If they vote for it it will be either because they like the deal (unlikely) or they fear the backlash from Leavers and Moggmentum.

As has been said it will be tight.

 

[shmmeee]

The last line is indeed true. The main Brexiteers are all wealthy who don't want to have to share their influence with others in this country. It's self interest not what will be best for the country.

Like you my main focus of hope is that at some point we will start making things again rather than import, but that will be dependent on tariffs and the companies making decisions on whether it is more financially viable to pay the tariffs or open up a base here. But in order to avoid tariffs somewhere along the line they have to have the entire supply chain here in the UK - that's a big outlay. It's not just about setting up a factory - it's about materials, components etc.

At the moment we have a foothold because as well as the large domestic market manufacturers have access to the even larger EU market. If that goes then as we're seeing at the moment the initial instinct is to have your base in the larger market, which is the EU. Will that change over time? Who knows but my instinct suggests the tariffs will end up being cheaper than setting up an entire operation in the UK, certainly without some form of government incentive being offered. Time will tell but it's going to take a fair while for them to make that decision after we leave.

Interesting read for those who would like us to “Make things”: The myth of Britain's manufacturing decline

Bit old now but stands up. Personally my issue with the decline of what we think of as manufacturing is the loss of mass employment, decent wages, and social mobility. No reason they can’t exist in other industries, though I suspect they’re lost to the winds of time now and we need to solve the economic and social issue that have arisen with new ways of doing things.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

I've always wondered what the DUP would do if the Abortion and Same Sex Marriage was enforced on NI. Being staunchly Unionist they'd either have to agree or desire independence. Would be interesting to see which they'd choose....

 

[djr8369]

really? Who will they vote for then?

That’s a fair point Grendel and shows how toxic an issue Brexit has become. Also shows the weakness of a GE as it ends up being a leave vs remain vote but with the complexities of a normal election and party lines.


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[Astute]

Have you got confused?

You said the people saying we’d fuck manufacturing etc were people like me who weren’t leavers. Nothing about “noise”. That was a different conversation thread.

So I am not allowed to mention what you quote?

 

[shmmeee]

That’s a fair point Grendel and shows how toxic an issue Brexit has become. Also shows the weakness of a GE as it ends up being a leave vs remain vote but with the complexities of a normal election and party lines.


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There’s two schools of thought at the moment, one (Corbynite) says that Brexit is an anomaly and the old class divide will continue to be the fault line in politics. Another (Cummings) thinks that we’ve got a new dividing line of open vs closed internationally.

My issue with the second line of thought is that outside of “Brexit” and the odd bit on immigration, how much actual consensus is there on either side? There’s still a very clear dividing line between left and right Brexit visions and left and right Remain visions. Ultimately you either want government to fix things or you want to be left alone. I don’t see that changing.

Will all be very interesting in ten years time to see the state of the two main parties here.

 

[shmmeee]

So I am not allowed to mention what you quote?

Honestly can’t follow you, sorry. If I was incorrect in my interpretation of your original post that I thought was saying the economic model was mine then I apologise, your post wasn’t clear.

 

[Astute]

You seem to have conflated two separate points from two different people and misinterpreted them but I’ll try and answer you.

Where is all the noise for leave? - as I stated the noise for leave in the media seems to have abated somewhat as it met with reality yet the government is still in a knot of its own making as it now tries to tweak the deal and get the DUP onboard.

As somebody else stated - the noise, within the Tory party and government, is still there in the form of the prominent leavers who are still plotting the course.


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You both make out the noise for leave is massive yet make out the noise for remain is much lower. Yet the opposite is the truth.

 

[djr8369]

You both make out the noise for leave is massive yet make out the noise for remain is much lower. Yet the opposite is the truth.

Nope. That’s at best an oversimplification of what I said and at worst completely wrong.

I said initially the noise was all leave, and this dictated government direction and put them in the bind they’re in.

Having met reality most of the leave slogans have been shown to be as vacuous as they seemed and the remain voices are now louder while leave is all but in hiding.

HOWEVER, the government continues to dance to the tune of leave due to the various leavers in positions of influence.


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[shmmeee]

 

[Astute]

Voters should be turning away from the tories in droves while this toxic behaviour continues.

And vote for who? Remain has one chance. The Lib Dems. But they jumped into bed with the Tories. Labour? No chance while Corbyn is in charge. Saying that he was defended to the hilt for the last few years. But reality has finally hit home.

 

[Astute]

The last line is indeed true. The main Brexiteers are all wealthy who don't want to have to share their influence with others in this country. It's self interest not what will be best for the country.

Like you my main focus of hope is that at some point we will start making things again rather than import, but that will be dependent on tariffs and the companies making decisions on whether it is more financially viable to pay the tariffs or open up a base here. But in order to avoid tariffs somewhere along the line they have to have the entire supply chain here in the UK - that's a big outlay. It's not just about setting up a factory - it's about materials, components etc.

At the moment we have a foothold because as well as the large domestic market manufacturers have access to the even larger EU market. If that goes then as we're seeing at the moment the initial instinct is to have your base in the larger market, which is the EU. Will that change over time? Who knows but my instinct suggests the tariffs will end up being cheaper than setting up an entire operation in the UK, certainly without some form of government incentive being offered. Time will tell but it's going to take a fair while for them to make that decision after we leave.

If tariffs are introduced manufacturing will return to the UK.

Look at Japan. They get a trade deal with the EU then start pulling manufacturing out of Europe.

 

[Astute]

Nope. That’s at best an oversimplification of what I said and at worst completely wrong.

I said initially the noise was all leave, and this dictated government direction and put them in the bind they’re in.

Having met reality most of the leave slogans have been shown to be as vacuous as they seemed and the remain voices are now louder while leave is all but in hiding.

HOWEVER, the government continues to dance to the tune of leave due to the various leavers in positions of influence.


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You said initially all the noise was leave? When did you say 'initially'?

 

[Grendel]

That’s a fair point Grendel and shows how toxic an issue Brexit has become. Also shows the weakness of a GE as it ends up being a leave vs remain vote but with the complexities of a normal election and party lines.


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Who even made these comments?

 

[shmmeee]

And vote for who? Remain has one chance. The Lib Dems. But they jumped into bed with the Tories. Labour? No chance while Corbyn is in charge. Saying that he was defended to the hilt for the last few years. But reality has finally hit home.

Out of curiosity. What’s the “reality” that’s hit home about Corbyn?

 

[skybluetony176]

Aww. It’s not easy being world king is it Boris.

Brexit deal hangs in balance amid DUP talks

 

[Sick Boy]

Wow even Salvini has abandoned his anti Euro stance - wasn’t Italy one of the dominos along with Holland and France?

 

[skybluetony176]

Leave means leave etc. Although in another twist of Irony she is right in what she’s said today even though she didn’t practice what she is now preaching.

 

[Astute]

Out of curiosity. What’s the “reality” that’s hit home about Corbyn?

Are you saying that Corbyn is the person to take Labour forward or are you just waiting for a chance to twist my words as usual?

 

[SkyBlueDom26]

Once this deal goes through, will remoaners finally stop moaning...

And will this scruffy idiot finally get a job

 

[shmmeee]

Are you saying that Corbyn is the person to take Labour forward or are you just waiting for a chance to twist my words as usual?

No, I’m just always interested in people’s opinions on Corbyn. They tend to be very emotional and strong and I’m fascinated by how they came to them. You implied something had happened. I’m not a massive Corbyn fan, but I’m not a massive anyone else fan either. Frankly I think politics is fucked and for a variety of reasons we don’t get high quality politicians any more.

 

[skybluetony176]

Apparently the Brexit Secretary has just confirmed that there will be an extension if the deal isn’t sorted by the weekend.

PM will write letter to EU asking for Brexit delay if no deal by Saturday

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

If tariffs are introduced manufacturing will return to the UK.

Look at Japan. They get a trade deal with the EU then start pulling manufacturing out of Europe.

Some will. But it won't happen immediately and it will be reliant on economic conditions - it will need a buoyant economy for many to do it and it's unlikely we'll see that for a number of years post-Brexit. So I reckon you're looking at about 10 years before they're making tentative enquiries then another 5-10 before we start to see any jobs etc in the form of construction of new plant. But that's still optimistic even compared to JRM.

My other big hope for post-brexit was a move towards long term sustainable green energy and technology. But seeing as who's in charge at the moment I'd say it's far more likely to be a move in the opposite direction unless there is a massive shift in voting tendencies by the people. Plus if we don't have access to the European Research it puts us at a massive disadvantage in developing these areas.

 

[shmmeee]

I take it all back about Boris. Truly the wankers PM

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

I take it all back about Boris. Truly the wankers PM

What are the kinks? BDSM? Rubber? Sploshing?

 

[djr8369]

If tariffs are introduced manufacturing will return to the UK.

Look at Japan. They get a trade deal with the EU then start pulling manufacturing out of Europe.

I don’t follow your reasoning here, care to elaborate?


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[djr8369]

I take it all back about Boris. Truly the wankers PM

That was an odd policy. You could understand the republicans doing it but a party in the U.K.?


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[Alan Dugdales Moustache]

I don’t think anything of it, I wasn’t aware of it. Doesn’t sound particularly interesting, quite a lot of people think we should honour the result don’t they? What’s your point?
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Typical answer of someone who can't face simple facts.