Danceswithhorses
Well-Known Member
...and then we started playing him out of position on the wing, thus affecting his goal scoring record
BornSlippySkyBlue
Well-Known Member
Given that society as a whole has more than its fair share of racist people, does it not stand to reason that there will be at least some racist fans?
And some fans will judge some players unfairly due to the colour of their skin. It really isn’t worth arguing against that point. Surely?
Im not saying all CCFC fans are racist, but some are. No doubt about it.
And some fans will judge some players unfairly due to the colour of their skin. It really isn’t worth arguing against that point. Surely?
Im not saying all CCFC fans are racist, but some are. No doubt about it.
Exit Stage Left
Well-Known Member
What exactly is your point mate?
Are you saying some fans who have criticised Amadou Bakayoko's past performances in a City shirt are doing it because they are racist?
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So your saying a large majority of city supporters who don’t rate bakayoko are racist?
Terry_dactyl
Well-Known Member
I’m pretty sure they’re not saying that.
rob9872
Well-Known Member
I loved Bakas goal sat and he should have had another unfortunately ruled out, but I still dont see it in him tbh and dont think he's good enough. Hiwula who's missed lots of chsnces this season I think has more about him and would be more prolific next to Max. Just my opinion of course, but having watched Baka against Walsall and FGR not included in those stats, much worse standard and looked clueless. I hope I'm wrong, I hope he smashes 20 goals, but I cant see it happening.
BornSlippySkyBlue
Well-Known Member
Lol. Try reading what I wrote. I’m saying that a minority of people are racist. There is no argument to be had. I never at any point mentioned Baka, Dion or any other player.
People are losing their shit at the suggestion some people are racist. Open your eyes.
People are losing their shit at the suggestion some people are racist. Open your eyes.
Johhny Blue
Well-Known Member
So was Kevin Kyle
BornSlippySkyBlue
Well-Known Member
Which bit do you find so incredible?
Tommo1993
Well-Known Member
Johhny Blue
Well-Known Member
Then it wouldn’t be even.Do I have to try and think of another black player to keep it even?
Tommo1993
Well-Known Member
That is true. Silly me.
BornSlippySkyBlue
Well-Known Member
I’d love to know how you got that from what I actually said.
rob9872
Well-Known Member
I was trying to work out wtf it had to do with my post but you wasnt replying to me. Helpful if you'd quoted as you did in this one!
I actually replied about the pist, but it's all got lost amongsy more he said she said is racist isn't racist waffle
BornSlippySkyBlue
Well-Known Member
Was a general comment on the thread rather than a reply to a specific individual. Just find it strange that people will deny that racism is ‘a thing’. And given that it is a thing (I’m not even gonna question that statement of fact) it seems pretty obvious that it is also a thing with our fans, who are a subset of the general population after all.
It’s not even an arguable or controversial point, it just is.
And no, I’m not saying all Cov fans are racist, that we’re worse than any other set of fans or any other over the top statement. Just that it exists. Because it does.
rob9872
Well-Known Member
Did you actually read my post? My post has fk all to do with racism this is about Baka, i brought it back on track, but its again lost!
Exit Stage Left
Well-Known Member
Nobody is denying racism is "a thing", but why would you bring racism up as a topic in a thread about Amadou Bakayoko then make out the two things aren't linked? It just feels you are making this about Baka's skin colour rather then fans discussing Baka's ability as footballer.
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shmmeee
Well-Known Member
I think bornslippy has summed it up pretty well. Racism is a thing. More than one person has noted black players seem to get shorter shrift. I’d hope it’s not racism but when you have three black lads and one white all doing the same thing and people seem to let the white lad off and pile on the black lads it’s fair to ask the question.
We are allowed to discuss it. We should always check our biases. If you can justify it to yourself you’re golden, if you get highly offended at the mere suggestion then maybe you need to ask why. No one is saying all fans are racist, but that there are racist fans and maybe just maybe they are quicker to slate black players.
Not all racism in football is monkey noises and bananas. Some of it is subtle.
As for Baka, his goal scoring record is good, he has good attributes, and he’s playing at a higher level than Godden was at his age. He’s doing OK.
BornSlippySkyBlue
Well-Known Member
Again, it wasn’t a response to your post but the thread in general. Apologies if I confused you.
BornSlippySkyBlue
Well-Known Member
Now I’m confused.
1: I didn’t “bring racism up” I was responding to the rest of the thread. Maybe read it if you think I brought the topic up.
2: Don’t know what you mean about “not linked”??
3: Again, I’m not “making this” about skin colour I’m responding to the thread. Are we actually reading the same thread?
Nan’sbread
New Member
Just out of curiosity, how does one criticise Bakayoko without being “racist”? Or is he exempt because he’s not white?
As others have stated, apart from scoring in the last few games he’s been hugely underwhelming throughout his time here and is therefore justifiably open to criticism.
Also, the man gets paid to play football for a living by mainly white people while consistently underperforming. He’s hardly the victim you and others are so keen to paint him as.
People like you who keep pushing the racism narrative where it clearly doesn’t exist are the problem, not the solution.
Skybluefaz
Well-Known Member
My point was that A. Bakayoko was written off far too soon by some, even before he'd kicked a ball for us in some cases. B. Some of the criticism of his attitude and that he was lazy seemed at odds with his actual performance on the pitch. Seemed to be stereotyped. Not saying if you criticise him you are racist. Just base it in facts.
What the fuck is your point about being paid by mainly white people about?
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
For every Baka getting criticised there’s a Lee Burge, Ryan Haynes, and on Saturday Fadz for his moment of insanity in the box. In fact Burge is still getting it now and he’s no longer at the club. Cov fans like any other have favourites and anti-favourites.
Sky Blue Pete
Well-Known Member
I’ll try. It’s the words used.
so it always used to be black this or that or irish this or that rather than just being the thing one asserted. People now understand why this isn’t ok.
We now have certain words like lazy or disinterested or laid back being used implying a characteristic of a particular race.
It’s not blatant racism it’s just poor language skills I think.
So for me it’s fine to say dabo made a mistake letting the ball slip under his boot but to shout at him for being lazy is not ok and you have to question why it’s said.
It’s not as bad as it was in the 70’s when I started watching but around me many fans treat black players differently, judging them more harshly. However as Grendel has made clear there are fans favourites and boo boys that don’t fit this model.
Irish Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
I agree with you that labelling Dabo as lazy is an odd thing to do. I also think that Bakayoko, for all of his faults, actually works really hard in games, as does Hiwula. The problem is that that there are no doubt players who don’t put themselves about as much as they should. I felt sometimes that Stern John did not work as hard as he could or should have. My view is based on the way I felt he played, nothing to do with the colour of his skin.
rob9872
Well-Known Member
From reading this thread back over a few pages I think some on here are really trying too hard on both sides of the argument to prove that they're either not racist or are looking for racism where there is none.
I think most sensible people can agree, some people are racist, some people use language that others can perceive as racist, players can be lazy or disinterested whatever the colour of their skin, some players are treated more harshly or unfair than others, sometimes players have been treated more harshly or unfair because of the colour of their skin. Thanks goodness Matt Le Tissier wasn't black or this place would've been in meltdown
Now if we can get back to slagging off Bakayoko please which is the purpose of this thread.
I think most sensible people can agree, some people are racist, some people use language that others can perceive as racist, players can be lazy or disinterested whatever the colour of their skin, some players are treated more harshly or unfair than others, sometimes players have been treated more harshly or unfair because of the colour of their skin. Thanks goodness Matt Le Tissier wasn't black or this place would've been in meltdown
Now if we can get back to slagging off Bakayoko please which is the purpose of this thread.
Skyblueweeman
Well-Known Member
Or maybe there's genuine reasons that a white player isn't getting critiqued like 3 black players and it's coincidence that the white player isn't critiqued?
Was it racist when Rodger was on the bench in the 87 Cup Final when Regis, Bennett and McGrath started?
Absolutely nothing to see here in terms of racism and to suggest otherwise is incredulous.
GaryMabbuttsLeftKnee
Well-Known Member
I see the points on both sides. There are obviously going to be racist fans among our support who will find faults in minority players quicker than white British, but it's kinda madness to suggest that Bakayoko critics are racist. For all his faults, I have found it weird that some have sometimes refered to him as lazy. I think he lacks football intelligence but his workrate has resulted in possibly the worst goal I have ever seen and also the same situation where we should have had a penalty v Luton... not the kind of thing you'd see Berbatov doing. I think people have perceptions have players and stick with them, whether it's race or whatever, I guess it's human nature. Westbrooke seems to be criticised more than Shipley and praised far less than Shipley, yet has been more impressive (in my opinion) and also has scored three times this season. It's not always a race issue, although somtimes clearly it is.
SkyBlueDom26
Well-Known Member
His work rate is always 9/10 in every game he plays, he might not have great games but he always puts a shift in for the team
20 goals 20 goals
20 goals 20 goals
Skyblueweeman
Well-Known Member
And to further my point, we've had many white players critiqued/castigated over the years - Eustace, O'Neill, Telfer, McSheffrey, Bellamy, Edworthy, Birchall, Doyle, Borrowdale, Eastwood, Bell, Cody McDonald, Clingan, Burge, Fleck, Haynes, Madine, Webster, Burge, Chaplin to name but a few.
To link to coincidental fact that 3 of our 4 strikers are getting a harder time at the moment because of their skin colour is non-sensical.
Does racism still exist in football - unfortunately yes. Is there hints of racism amongst this forum because of some players being called out - absolutely not.
To link to coincidental fact that 3 of our 4 strikers are getting a harder time at the moment because of their skin colour is non-sensical.
Does racism still exist in football - unfortunately yes. Is there hints of racism amongst this forum because of some players being called out - absolutely not.
Nan’sbread
New Member
Has it not occurred to you that perhaps it’s because he averaged a goal every ten games and came with less than favourable reviews?
“Seemed to be stereotyped”... Right, so because you perceive people’s motives they must be true?
I’m assuming as you’ve jumped to the conclusion that the criticism Bakayoko has received is fuelled by racism, you’ll be sending a letter of complaint to Mr Robbins, who only a week ago openly stated he needed to step up or he was off?
You’ve implied there’s a significant racism problem towards black players by our fans. If that’s the case, why would they pay every week to watch them?
To put things in perspective, Bakayoko is fortunate enough to play football for a living. He’s in a profession where he could potentially earn more in a week than most do in a year/s for kicking a ball about. He can also be poor at his job week in week out and still get paid. He’s hardly one of life’s down and outs because a few people call him a few names, now is he?
You need to relax buddy.
BornSlippySkyBlue
Well-Known Member
What I don’t get is why people get so defensive about something that is undeniable. Personally, I’m not singling anyone out and claiming that they, individually, are racist. All my comments meant were that there is racism involved in how some fans judge some players. If you think about that statement it isn’t that controversial, is it? We all make judgements based on what people look like, based largely on our own preconceived ideas about what that look ‘means’. If you see someone with a kaftan and long hair you’d probably make some assumptions about their political beliefs for example.
The reason it is relevant to this thread, and by definition Baka is because Baka is constantly accused of ‘not putting a shift in’, yet he’s one of the few players to constantly chase down the keeper etc. He always seems to try, to me at least, whatever else people think of him as a player.
But nobody is saying that a player can’t be criticised just because they are black, or that anyone that has criticised them is therefore racist. Just that it exists. That is all. And if we all believe it doesn’t and get all offended every time anyone even talks about it then it will never change.
The reason it is relevant to this thread, and by definition Baka is because Baka is constantly accused of ‘not putting a shift in’, yet he’s one of the few players to constantly chase down the keeper etc. He always seems to try, to me at least, whatever else people think of him as a player.
But nobody is saying that a player can’t be criticised just because they are black, or that anyone that has criticised them is therefore racist. Just that it exists. That is all. And if we all believe it doesn’t and get all offended every time anyone even talks about it then it will never change.
Skyblueweeman
Well-Known Member
To be fair, people put their thoughts on the forum, so we know what they're thinking.