General Election 2019 thread (56 Viewers)

[Liquid Gold]

Again avoided the IRA point but ok. I didn't say he was defending it, I was pointing out the error in the argument. As for grow up, try being more balanced. Your daily rhetoric is boring.

Mo Mowlam asked for Corbyn to get involved in the peace process because he'd already spent time building bridges in an effort to bring peace to the region. Is she an IRA sympathising trot bitch now too or something?

 

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[Ian1779]

Again avoided the IRA point but ok. I didn't say he was defending it, I was pointing out the error in the argument. As for grow up, try being more balanced. Your daily rhetoric is boring.

my daily rhetoric is boring? At least mine has some original thought to it, rather than trotting out fanfare from a dying written press.

 

[rob9872]

Mo Mowlam asked for Corbyn to get involved in the peace process because he'd already spent time building bridges in an effort to bring peace to the region. Is she an IRA sympathising trot bitch now too or something?

Your words not mine.
Why do you think she included him? Perhaps because of his close links so he could help bring them round the table? It doesn't detract from the fact he has been a traitor to the nation throughout his time standing alongside them. It's one thing being a republican and hating the monarchy (which I also disagree with0 but supporting terrorism as he did is a whole different level.

 

[clint van damme]

Conveniently avoided the IRA issue then? And I was quoting Corbyn v Boris as that was the criticism aimed at Boris not Labour v Conservative. There are plenty of rotten apples throughout the house and I've never said differently, but you don't defend anti-Semitism by saying "yeah but it's ok because he said it too"

the charges against Corbyn have been answered ad nauseum In the EU thread.
It's the inconsistency and the hypocrisy that get me.
If you want to shine a light on Corbyns connection to the IRA 30 years ago then fine, but you can't ignore our more recent connections to the regime that are/were one of ISIS's main backers, to tax payers money finding its way to Al Nusra in Syria, to why a control order was lifted on the Manchester bomber so he could fight with rebels in Libya, the list goes on.

That's before you even mention that the tories have fielded an ex member of the Provisional IRA as a councillor and the Brexit Party have Claire Fox as a member.

 

[rob9872]

my daily rhetoric is boring? At least mine has some original thought to it, rather than trotting out fanfare from a dying written press.

You never have anything to say about the City which is predominantly why most of us come here, so I think it's easier if I just set you to ignore.

Bye.

 

[Ian1779]

Your words not mine.
Why do you think she included him? Perhaps because of his close links so he could help bring them round the table? It doesn't detract from the fact he has been a traitor to the nation throughout his time standing alongside them. It's one thing being a republican and hating the monarchy (which I also disagree with0 but supporting terrorism as he did is a whole different level.

Do you mean whole new level like arming them? (As we have done for years)

 

[rob9872]

the charges against Corbyn have been answered ad nauseum In the EU thread.
It's the inconsistency and the hypocrisy that get me.
If you want to shine a light on Corbyns connection to the IRA 30 years ago then fine, but you can't ignore our more recent connections to the regime that are/were one of ISIS's main backers, to tax payers money finding its way to Al Nusra in Syria, to why a control order was lifted on the Manchester bomber so he could fight with rebels in Libya, the list goes on.

That's before you even mention that the tories have fielded an ex member of the Provisional IRA as a councillor and the Brexit Party have Claire Fox as a member.

I don't disagree with any of that, but again you're using the argument of saying "yeah but look what they did"
Two wrongs have rarely if ever made a right.

I'm not a Tory supporter as the suggestion might be. I'll likely vote for them again as I feel I'm more aligned than any other, to deliver what I want, but I have equal disdain for them as people.

 

[Ian1779]

You never have anything to say about the City which is predominantly why most of us come here, so I think it's easier if I just set you to ignore.

Bye.

See ya.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

I didn’t attribute the financial crisis to labour, like I don’t attribute everything that’s happened post 2010 to the Tories.

For every negative graph, there’s a positive one (check out employment rates per country over recent years - no not all low paid/zero hour jobs as people like to spin !!) or last 12-18 months wage growth even with the backdrop of Brexit) but I can’t keep going round in circles.

If people want a narrow view of politics it’s their call I guess.

ps whilst we would all prefer wage growth to have been stronger, it can be linked to various other factors like over/under supply of labour (See net migration figures since 2010), and productivity. Economics isn’t simple. For example the same people complaining about business tax cuts also don’t like to acknowledge that this can help employment.

Business tax cuts do very little, if nothing, for job creation.

Kansas in the US abolished business taxes saying it would lead to huge job creation. It didn't. It created none. When asked why the employers said "I've got as many workers as I need so why would I spend money employing people I don't need". So instead the state had a massive budget deficit from lost tax earnings. They've since repealed those cuts and are performing better.

Fact is some places see better economic performance and job creation after tax cuts, others don't. In scientific tests that would lead to the conclusion that there is no direct causality between the two or at best it is other related economic factors that make the difference. You can cut taxes all you want but if the market conditions don't require more employment then you ain't gonna get more employment.

 

[Grendel]

Again avoided the IRA point but ok. I didn't say he was defending it, I was pointing out the error in the argument. As for grow up, try being more balanced. Your daily rhetoric is boring.

Jeremy and McDonnell oddly just never seem to see it

Luciana Berger interview: Corbyn and Labour’s antisemitism crisis

 

[clint van damme]

I don't disagree with any of that, but again you're using the argument of saying "yeah but look what they did"
Two wrongs have rarely if ever made a right.

I'm not a Tory supporter as the suggestion might be. I'll likely vote for them again as I feel I'm more aligned than any other, to deliver what I want, but I have equal disdain for them as people.

I dont think its two wrongs make a right. But there's an election coming up.
If you're going to go down certain avenues then it needs to be done fairly in my opinion.

 

[shmmeee]

He made an ill informed quip about picanninies and water melon smiles, for which he apologised. It's constantly used as a slur to beat him with and yet Corbyn has never apologised not only for the anti-Semitism but more importantly his support for the IRA. Johnson may be many things you all don't like in terms of Etonian, posh, rich, looking after his own etc but I don't get this racist angle keep being labelled on him.

Where has Corbyn been similarly anti-Semitic?

I think Johnson probably is at least islamophobic. He certainly leads an islamophobic party. The difference in reaction to the accusations levelled at each party is stark. Labour bring in the EHRC and the Tories nix any investigation. Most data done on party supporters shows Labour as one of the least racist memberships and Tories as one of the most. The idea that the left is more racist in general than the right is frankly hilarious.

As for the IRA stuff. Yes he supported Irish unification and probably still does. I think using what was a complex and violent time on all sides for political points is a little off TBH. Both sides of that were talking to people and both sides have skeletons in their closet there. Best to move past it all. I’m not sure meeting Gerry Adams is the smoking gun of prejudice you make out though.

 

[rob9872]

Revealed: Jeremy Corbyn and John McDonnell's close IRA links

You might be able to move on past this, I can't.

 

[ccfchoi87]

The Corbyn/Remoaner brigade out in full force again

Funny too as Corbyn wants out of Europe just as much as the majority of the country.

 

[SkyBlueDom26]

Funny too as Corbyn wants out of Europe just as much as the majority of the country.

Bullshit, he wants to remain

 

[shmmeee]

Your words not mine.
Why do you think she included him? Perhaps because of his close links so he could help bring them round the table? It doesn't detract from the fact he has been a traitor to the nation throughout his time standing alongside them. It's one thing being a republican and hating the monarchy (which I also disagree with0 but supporting terrorism as he did is a whole different level.

You realise unionist terrorism was also a thing right? It wasn’t good ol Blighty versus the evil Irish terrorists.

 

[skybluetony176]

Looks like Corbyn is going to fight the election very much on the NHS, specifically on the impending scandal of drug prices following the dispatches investigation.

 

[ccfchoi87]

Bullshit, he wants to remain

It’s well known that Corbyn is a eurosceptic. He voted against it at every turn until becoming labour leader. He does toe the party line now but make no mistake about it he is a leaver at heart.

Google it if you don’t believe me

 

[shmmeee]

Bullshit, he wants to remain

No. His party wants to remain. He’s been a eurosceptic his entire career.

 

[rob9872]

You realise unionist terrorism was also a thing right? It wasn’t good ol Blighty versus the evil Irish terrorists.

Of course. And nobody is defending them either. Yet another attempt to discredit IRA support with whataboutery. Both sides reprehensible doesn't make his actions any more palatable.

 

[clint van damme]

Looks like Corbyn is going to fight the election very much on the NHS, specifically on the impending scandal of drug prices following the dispatches investigation.

If the tories are City last season then the NHS is definitely Lee Burge and something that has to be targeted, and rightly so.
No matter how bad or good the economy is most of us will be fucked if we have to pay 30 grand a pop for a round of chemo in our old age, (or unfortunately for some, young age), and that's what's round the corner under the tories.

 

[skybluetony176]

Of course. And nobody is defending them either. Yet another attempt to discredit IRA support with whataboutery. Both sides reprehensible doesn't make his actions any more palatable.

The DUP has as strong terrorist links as Sinn Fein. So really on the principle that you’re applying that also excludes you from voting Tory. That’s before you even get into the long history of loyalist paramilitaries working with a Tory government to undertake assassinations.

 

[rob9872]

The DUP has as strong terrorist links as Sinn Fein. So really on the principle that you’re applying that also excludes you from voting Tory. That’s before you even get into the long history of loyalist paramilitaries working with a Tory government to undertake assassinations.

I've already stated higher up that I dislike most of the Conservative MP's in equal proportion. It wont stop me voting for them however as I pointed out, they are most in line with what I believe economically and in terms of delivering Brexit. If we all had to agree 100% with everything each party stood for then nobody would vote for anybody.

 

[Grendel]

If the tories are City last season then the NHS is definitely Lee Burge and something that has to be targeted, and rightly so.
No matter how bad or good the economy is most of us will be fucked if we have to pay 30 grand a pop for a round of chemo in our old age, (or unfortunately for some, young age), and that's what's round the corner under the tories.

Don’t be ridiculous

 

[rob9872]

The DUP has as strong terrorist links as Sinn Fein. So really on the principle that you’re applying that also excludes you from voting Tory. That’s before you even get into the long history of loyalist paramilitaries working with a Tory government to undertake assassinations.

I'd also add that if the DUP propping up a Conservative Govt stops you voting that way, then how do you reason with the growing support for the Lib Dems. As I said in my previous post, nobody would vote for anybody.

 

[Grendel]

I'd also add that if the DUP propping up a Conservative Govt stops you voting that way, then how do you reason with the growing support for the Lib Dems. As I said in my previous post, nobody would vote for anybody.

And of course in 2010 Brown trying to muster DUP support

 

[clint van damme]

Don’t be ridiculous

I'm not. I'm convinced the NHS is in jeopardy under the tories. so are many others including health care professionals and that's the message Labour need to get across.

 

[shmmeee]

Of course. And nobody is defending them either. Yet another attempt to discredit IRA support with whataboutery. Both sides reprehensible doesn't make his actions any more palatable.

What actions? It’s not whataboutery, it’s pointing out that it was a complex situation and politicians of all stripes at one point or another “sympathised with terrorists”.

 

[rob9872]

What actions? It’s not whataboutery, it’s pointing out that it was a complex situation and politicians of all stripes at one point or another “sympathised with terrorists”.

But only one who is trying to become Prime Minister of our country!

 

[clint van damme]

I've already stated higher up that I dislike most of the Conservative MP's in equal proportion. It wont stop me voting for them however as I pointed out, they are most in line with what I believe economically and in terms of delivering Brexit. If we all had to agree 100% with everything each party stood for then nobody would vote for anybody.

which is sort of what I was saying. If you're going to call them out call them all out but ultimately they've all got stuff they'd rather you didn't highlight but at the end of the day if you're going to vote in all likelihood you're going to have to turn a blind eye to some unpalatable stuff.

 

[shmmeee]

I've already stated higher up that I dislike most of the Conservative MP's in equal proportion. It wont stop me voting for them however as I pointed out, they are most in line with what I believe economically and in terms of delivering Brexit. If we all had to agree 100% with everything each party stood for then nobody would vote for anybody.

Big fan of low wages, high public debt, and tax cuts for millionaires are you? Each to their own I guess.

 

[shmmeee]

But only one who is trying to become Prime Minister of our country!

None of the others were in parliament at the time.

To be clear, the thing that you think is so beyond the pail it disqualifies him is that he talked to Sinn Fein? I mean even that “detailed telegraph investigation” had to drag in three cases of guilt by association to pad the article out.

 

[shmmeee]

The real point here is no one who was as bad as people claim Corbyn is would pass the security checks to be on Privy Council. The spooks would stop that shit in its tracks. And even with their huge anti-left bias, they haven’t.

 

[shmmeee]

Should be clear. I think Corbyn is naive in who he meets and suffers from a habit of automatically backing the underdogs. But that’s an entirely different thing from saying he’s a dangerous terrorist sympathiser.

 

[skybluetony176]

I'd also add that if the DUP propping up a Conservative Govt stops you voting that way, then how do you reason with the growing support for the Lib Dems. As I said in my previous post, nobody would vote for anybody.

On that I agree. I’m voting on policy not personality and if as you say Tory policy is most inline with your own opinions then you voting for them is absolutely the right thing for you to do. Just making the point that if you’re going to dismiss Corbyn on one single issue on cosying up to terrorist then you have to dismiss the Tories on that same single issue.