More Wasps BS? (82 Viewers)

[Sky Blue Pete]

Still around I've just been having a read of a few of the other threads, good result for us Saturday and deserved the win team played better due to a few different players being available this week but still missing a few influential players due to world cup and injury so there is the potential for improvement to come

Only 1 returning though

 

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[eastwoodsdustman]

Looks like they won’t get relegated this year now saracens have a points deduction

 

[ccfc92]

Looks like they won’t get relegated this year now saracens have a points deduction

How many get relegated, 1 team?

 

[Colin Steins Smile]

Still around I've just been having a read of a few of the other threads, good result for us Saturday and deserved the win team played better due to a few different players being available this week but still missing a few influential players due to world cup and injury so there is the potential for improvement to come

Good result for Wasps at the weekend & it just got better today for them with Saracens being deducted 35 points and fines over £5m for breaking the pay cap for the past 3 years. I had wondered for sometime how Saracens afforded all those top internationals....& now we know. However, I still think Wasps will be fighting relegation this season.

 

[CanadianCCFC]

Saracens still probably won’t get relegated.

 

[OffenhamSkyBlue]

How many get relegated, 1 team?

Yes - unless the Prem teams get their way and abandon relegation altogether!!
Even with 35 points docked in the past 3 seasons, Saracens would not have gone down (other than on Nigel Wray, obviously), but wouldn't have finished in the top 4 for the play-offs.

 

[fernandopartridge]

Yes - unless the Prem teams get their way and abandon relegation altogether!!
Even with 35 points docked in the past 3 seasons, Saracens would not have gone down (other than on Nigel Wray, obviously), but wouldn't have finished in the top 4 for the play-offs.

I think a fine is a bit of a blunt instrument here, it doesn't sound like Saracens backers are short of a bob or two so what difference will that make? What are the ongoing sanctions beyond the points deduction? Presumably they have to slash the wage bill now?

 

[OffenhamSkyBlue]

Just out of curiosity, checked the price of "my seat" in block 21 at the Ricoh for the next Wasps home game. Adult is £42! Not surprised so many vacant seats if you take out the freebies.

I looked at the ticket prices last season, and i think for the game against Northampton, you could have got a seat in the "away " end (when City played there) for £21, but anything alongside the pitch is just crazy money.
ST prices at Worcester, who are always threatened with relegation (when they aren't in the Champ) are £475 for anywhere between the 22m lines. Matchday tickets are £44 for the same area (though much cheaper for the European Challenge Cup - =Europa league). Absolute madness - nice club though!

 

[OffenhamSkyBlue]

I think a fine is a bit of a blunt instrument here, it doesn't sound like Saracens backers are short of a bob or two so what difference will that make? What are the ongoing sanctions beyond the points deduction? Presumably they have to slash the wage bill now?

As i understand it, it isn't so much the wage bill per se, It's the other "business arrangements" between the Chairman (Nigel Wray) and the players which meant they were effectively being paid by the club for that too.

 

[Winny the Bish]

As i understand it, it isn't so much the wage bill per se, It's the other "business arrangements" between the Chairman (Nigel Wray) and the players which meant they were effectively being paid by the club for that too.

The top players had fake companies created for them or houses bought for them. Crazy levels of cheating.

 

[Sbarcher]

I looked at the ticket prices last season, and i think for the game against Northampton, you could have got a seat in the "away " end (when City played there) for £21, but anything alongside the pitch is just crazy money.
ST prices at Worcester, who are always threatened with relegation (when they aren't in the Champ) are £475 for anywhere between the 22m lines. Matchday tickets are £44 for the same area (though much cheaper for the European Challenge Cup - =Europa league). Absolute madness - nice club though!

Always had a bit of a soft spot for Worcester as my old boss used to own them.

 

[fernandopartridge]

As i understand it, it isn't so much the wage bill per se, It's the other "business arrangements" between the Chairman (Nigel Wray) and the players which meant they were effectively being paid by the club for that too.

Yeah i understand that, I meant 'wage bill' including whatever other mechanisms they've come up with for paying players beyond just salary

 

[peaches and cream]

Only 1 returning though

yes only Joe from the world cup with England, we had Mizzoni playing this week at fullback after playing with Italy and before anyone trots out the old line of "well Italy are shit at rugby" he is a quality player, Jimmy Gopperth back from 12 months of injury and looks as good as ever, Jack Willis to come back after freak training ground injury that will keep him out for a couple of weeks(one of the most highly rated young players in England) Watson away watching his brother in the final, Josh basset rested, Thomas young to come back consistently high in stats rankings season after season. so following a decent display on Saturday we still have quality players to come back in

 

[peaches and cream]

Saracens still probably won’t get relegated.

If they are allowed to keep their current squad together its not out of the question for them to still make the top four

 

[peaches and cream]

I think a fine is a bit of a blunt instrument here, it doesn't sound like Saracens backers are short of a bob or two so what difference will that make? What are the ongoing sanctions beyond the points deduction? Presumably they have to slash the wage bill now?

all sanctions are only enforceable for this season such as the points deduction and fine the ongoing difficulties will come from having to reduce costs to meet the salary cap, still lots of details to come out and Saracens have appealed the decision

 

[ccfc1234]

It's scandalous that rugby clubs in the premiership want to make it a no relagation league. A club like Exeter a few years back were in the championship, got investment and have gone onto prosper in the top flight, nearly winning the league a couple of times. How dare the greedy premiership owners deny clubs like Coventry, Newcaslte, London Welsh etc from.a shot at the premier league. Given wasps franchise model I am not shocked by this being their view.
The international game is not much better. Teams like Fiji, Japan etc who can genuinely trouble the top teams are not involved in an annual competition to improve their game and therefore it's little wonder why so many amazing south sea island talents play for the bigger nations so they can be recognised at the highest level.
It's protectionist and I hope the monopolies commission look at it if the premier league of rugby union try such a move.

 

[peaches and cream]

As it goes the majority of rugby fans totally agree with you that promotion and relegation should be part and parcel of the professional game, Exeter are a good example they actually make a profit and the club is owed by the fans, after today's news it show what good club they are to be constantly pushing Saracens whilst doing it legally

 

[Colin Steins Smile]

all sanctions are only enforceable for this season such as the points deduction and fine the ongoing difficulties will come from having to reduce costs to meet the salary cap, still lots of details to come out and Saracens have appealed the decision

The disciplinary process was managed by Sports Resolutions, who are a highly respected independent organisation & they normally use top barristers or judges to Chair these panels. I would be surprised if this decision is overturned

 

[peaches and cream]

All rugby fans hope so as their findings have confirmed what we all knew to be happening

 

[shepardo01]

Any chance Wasps may have done anything similar?

 

[Frostie]

Seen this on Facebook...

Members of the public who have bookings at Warwickshire Sports College @ Henley in Arden (5 a side footy etc) having all their pre-booked events cancelled from next month due to the Wasps purchase (which hasn't even been approved yet).

Really are committed to winning hearts & minds of the community aren't they...?

 

[stupot07]

The Saracans punishment is ridiculous. You're not allowed to go above the wage cap but it's ok to spend well beyond your means and make huge annual losses and rack up massive debt.

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk

 

[chiefdave]

Any chance Wasps may have done anything similar?

Of course not, Wasps would never do anything like break the salary cap
Premiership release statement as Wasps 'overrun' salary cap

 

[Grendel]

It’s an horrific set of accounts even if you are impartial - good in one say but if you were sisu you’d certainly be prepared to keep the strategy going as it’s very obvious Wasps position is unsustainable

 

[chiefdave]

Seen this on Facebook...

Members of the public who have bookings at Warwickshire Sports College @ Henley in Arden (5 a side footy etc) having all their pre-booked events cancelled from next month due to the Wasps purchase (which hasn't even been approved yet).

Really are committed to winning hearts & minds of the community aren't they...?

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They do what they want because they know they can get away with it. The people who go to watch them don't care what collateral damage there is and the Telegraph and CWR seem terrified of questioning them.

 

[ccfc1234]

With the pitiful attendances wasps get. This is going to go wrong sooner or later.

 

[Woolly68]

As it goes the majority of rugby fans totally agree with you that promotion and relegation should be part and parcel of the professional game, Exeter are a good example they actually make a profit and the club is owed by the fans, after today's news it show what good club they are to be constantly pushing Saracens whilst doing it legally

As far as I know the Rugby club is not owned by the fans. Owned by local businessman Tony Rowe. Are you getting mixed up with Exeter City FC that is a Supporters Trust run Club, owned by the fans? I may be wrong about the rugby, as I have no interest in the egg chasing lot down the road, but the football club is definitely fan owned as I am a Trust member myself.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

It’s an horrific set of accounts even if you are impartial - good in one say but if you were sisu you’d certainly be prepared to keep the strategy going as it’s very obvious Wasps position is unsustainable

This is the problem isn't it. We've been driven to be team SISU in this instance, whether we like it or not!

 

[peaches and cream]

As far as I know the Rugby club is not owned by the fans. Owned by local businessman Tony Rowe. Are you getting mixed up with Exeter City FC that is a Supporters Trust run Club, owned by the fans? I may be wrong about the rugby, as I have no interest in the egg chasing lot down the road, but the football club is definitely fan owned as I am a Trust member myself.

Tony Rowe is a appointed chairman and doesn't own Exeter RFC. the extract below is taken from their website.

Much of the transformation of Exeter Rugby Club has happened since the English rugby scene turned professional in the late 1990s. At this time a limited company structure was created to run all of the club’s affairs through a board of seven directors, chaired by local businessman Tony Rowe.

It was an inspired move as the direction of the new board not only saw Exeter Rugby Club rise on the field, but off it as well there was also much to promote as individuals, businesses and key sponsors came together to help provide financial backing to the playing squad.

Even now, however, it remains a members’ club with the company shares held by four trustees – John Lockyer, Bob Staddon, Paul Derbyshire and Ian Pugsley – who act on the sole wishes of the 700-strong membership.

 

[CanadianCCFC]

Maybe Al-Hasawi will buy them.

 

[peaches and cream]

Of course not, Wasps would never do anything like break the salary cap
Premiership release statement as Wasps 'overrun' salary cap

Wasp have been fined recently for spending over the salary cap but in different circumstances, If you have players away on England duty you are allowed a set value over the cap so that you still have enough players while they are away, this is factored in at the start of the season when you assemble your squad if players then are not selected through injury or form you do not get the financial credits you planned for and as such can go over the cap.

 

[CanadianCCFC]

Wasp have been fined recently for spending over the salary cap but in different circumstances, If you have players away on England duty you are allowed a set value over the cap so that you still have enough players while they are away, this is factored in at the start of the season when you assemble your squad if players then are not selected through injury or form you do not get the financial credits you planned for and as such can go over the cap.

So wasps broke a variation of the same rule is what you’re saying?

 

[peaches and cream]

Of course not, Wasps would never do anything like break the salary cap
Premiership release statement as Wasps 'overrun' salary cap

“This is not a breach of the Regulations and there is no suggestion it was deliberate,” said a Premiership Rugby spokesman. “A number of adjustments were identified by the independent auditors which resulted in the overrun. These have now been addressed.”

 

[Nick]

Wasp have been fined recently for spending over the salary cap but in different circumstances, If you have players away on England duty you are allowed a set value over the cap so that you still have enough players while they are away, this is factored in at the start of the season when you assemble your squad if players then are not selected through injury or form you do not get the financial credits you planned for and as such can go over the cap.

If it's allowed then why did they get fined?

 

[Colin Steins Smile]

Of course not, Wasps would never do anything like break the salary cap
Premiership release statement as Wasps 'overrun' salary cap

This is interesting when projected against the fine that Saracens have incurred. If the disciplinary panel applied the same equation of a fine of 50p in the £, then they must have broken the salary cap by almost £11M? That is a serious level of cheating!
If someone has more knowledge on this - please correct me?