Wasps current finances & hope (11 Viewers)

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HuckerbyDublinWhelan

Well-Known Member
oldskyblue58 said:
took a look at the wasps forum. I disagree with some of the thoughts on there - dont disagree with the wish that they had never turned up and bought in. However they have.

It is the rugby side of the operation that makes the biggest loss. The evidence is in the accounts which state the holding company made a profit of £6.2m however the exceptional profits £16.8m relates to the rugby side alone. So the real annual result of the rugby operation is a £10.6m loss. That leaves a loss for the rest of the business at £2.6m and the way i read it is much of that is to do with closing the Compass contract down and taking on Delaware. Ignore the depreciation (it isnt money spent), and reduce staff levels, increase the ACL income and the non rugby side would at least break even. How you get the rugby club to run profitably i have no idea but it isnt the stadium pulling the group down

Crowds are a factor of the team success, wasps have not been very successful of late

To my mind ACL is over staffed and there are savings to be made there - apparently already being done. Under the previous ownership turnover was higher and staff numbers and costs much lower. However ACL is not responsible for staffing the Casino, and it is Delaware North that staffs the stadium & hotel recharging costs to wasps through IEC

To sell the stadium and move may at first sight seem a good idea. The proceeds would be applied to the bond debt £35m first. However the sale value is unlikely to be the £51m for the lease because part of the lease value is based on wasps being there (rugby club have a 50 year lease) - if they are not going to be there no one would pay full value stated in the financials. If they dont clear the bond then they would in effect be bust, there would be no funds for a ground near the Stoop. The move would be costly, to buy a freehold or long lease would be more expensive the nearer to London you are, but there are the hidden costs of relocating staff and players etc let alone the obvious ones of building a smaller "rugby arena". Who is going to pay for that?

Moving might also mean actually paying out a rent. At the moment any rent charge stays within the group because its paid to ACL. Move to someone elses ground it wouldnt

Cant comment on player savings, not really interested.

Selling up and moving out doesnt solve their problem

Often companies do sell their main asset however to lease it back. Could this be an option? Gets full value on the long lease, clears the bond, maybe other debts too, could contribute to training ground ? Might mean a cost for access to other incomes though and the rent paid to 3rd party not internally. Does mean that wasps stay at the ricoh though
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Isn’t that why the council wouldn’t sell to SISU and assured us wasps wouldn’t do it?
 
Nick

Nick

Administrator
Many London and Bucks supporters remained loyal because the homegrown players stuck with the club. It was still the same players and the same team just playing in a different stadium. But as those players have left the bonds of loyalty and interest have weakened. Watching Gloucester v Wasps last weekend I actually wanted Gloucester to win. Or more accurately Simpson and Cipriani. Very strange. The 2015-18 was a fun and very entertaining side whilst it lasted. Sadly that team has now gone.
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fernandopartridge

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
oldskyblue58 said:
took a look at the wasps forum. I disagree with some of the thoughts on there - dont disagree with the wish that they had never turned up and bought in. However they have.

It is the rugby side of the operation that makes the biggest loss. The evidence is in the accounts which state the holding company made a profit of £6.2m however the exceptional profits £16.8m relates to the rugby side alone. So the real annual result of the rugby operation is a £10.6m loss. That leaves a loss for the rest of the business at £2.6m and the way i read it is much of that is to do with closing the Compass contract down and taking on Delaware. Ignore the depreciation (it isnt money spent), and reduce staff levels, increase the ACL income and the non rugby side would at least break even. How you get the rugby club to run profitably i have no idea but it isnt the stadium pulling the group down

Crowds are a factor of the team success, wasps have not been very successful of late

To my mind ACL is over staffed and there are savings to be made there - apparently already being done. Under the previous ownership turnover was higher and staff numbers and costs much lower. However ACL is not responsible for staffing the Casino, and it is Delaware North that staffs the stadium & hotel recharging costs to wasps through IEC

To sell the stadium and move may at first sight seem a good idea. The proceeds would be applied to the bond debt £35m first. However the sale value is unlikely to be the £51m for the lease because part of the lease value is based on wasps being there (rugby club have a 50 year lease) - if they are not going to be there no one would pay full value stated in the financials. If they dont clear the bond then they would in effect be bust, there would be no funds for a ground near the Stoop. The move would be costly, to buy a freehold or long lease would be more expensive the nearer to London you are, but there are the hidden costs of relocating staff and players etc let alone the obvious ones of building a smaller "rugby arena". Who is going to pay for that?

Moving might also mean actually paying out a rent. At the moment any rent charge stays within the group because its paid to ACL. Move to someone elses ground it wouldnt

Cant comment on player savings, not really interested.

Selling up and moving out doesnt solve their problem

Often companies do sell their main asset however to lease it back. Could this be an option? Gets full value on the long lease, clears the bond, maybe other debts too, could contribute to training ground ? Might mean a cost for access to other incomes though and the rent paid to 3rd party not internally. Does mean that wasps stay at the ricoh though
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Indeed, I thought the same that despite the previous poor results there is no evidence at all of them taking a grip on costs
 
fernandopartridge

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
It is funny to see what's happening. They're morphing into CCFC with the same statements being made. Ultimately though the stadium is not the issue like OSB says, Rugby Football has followed Association Football down the same financially unsustainable path with clowns like Richardson (B & D) driving.
 
fernandopartridge

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
No. Wasps' real problems started when the professional side was split from Wasps FC and the professional side lost control of their real estate in the mid 1990s. Before being asset stripped by Loftus Road plc. Unlike clubs which retained control of the primary asset. Leicester, Gloucester, Quins, Northampton etc. Exeter sold their old ground to buy a new one. Wasps RFC has been an economic basket case ever since it become divorced from its real estate inheritance from the amateur era.×
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Sounds familiar
 
oldskyblue58

oldskyblue58

CCFC Finance Director
fernandopartridge said:
Indeed, I thought the same that despite the previous poor results there is no evidence at all of them taking a grip on costs
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indeed, cant work out if that is pure bad management, sheer arrogance or a mixture of the two. Probably the latter but they have been massively over spending since they got here, and compared to other clubs they regularly make the biggest losses.
 
Terry Gibson's perm

Terry Gibson's perm

Well-Known Member
fernandopartridge said:
It is funny to see what's happening. They're morphing into CCFC with the same statements being made. Ultimately though the stadium is not the issue like OSB says, Rugby Football has followed Association Football down the same financially unsustainable path with clowns like Richardson (B & D) driving.
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They have brought the team to the wrong city as well the paying fans really aren’t interested, they came in and gave tickets away which means people looked at it and thought it costs nothing so it’s not bad now they have to pay they still see the original value of zero and think it’s quite expensive now.
 
Nick

Nick

Administrator
Terry Gibson's perm said:
They have brought the team to the wrong city as well the paying fans really aren’t interested, they came in and gave tickets away which means people looked at it and thought it costs nothing so it’s not bad now they have to pay they still see the original value of zero and think it’s quite expensive now.
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Yeah that's the thing. They set the tone hammering the free tickets, everybody I knew who jumped on the freebies wouldn't pay for tickets if they had to and only went because it was free and they could have a beer in the sun at their seat.

They won't hand £20 over to go and watch as they don't see it as worth it.
 
C

CCFC54321

Well-Known Member
fernandopartridge said:
Indeed, I thought the same that despite the previous poor results there is no evidence at all of them taking a grip on costs
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My personal take and many I speak with are saying the same thing that the move to Coventry isn't working out as planned. No ones going to pay to watch them unless they get a freebie even if there doing well.

So where does that leave them with nearly everything going against them and going to get worse? I can’t believe they haven’t thought about an exit strategy as I would be at this moment as there future existence is approaching them fast.

SISU are cunning here and waiting till Wasps go pop or cry for CCFC to come back so will be interesting how this pans out.
 
chiefdave

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
CCFC54321 said:
What tripe. What’s a training base got to do with profitability? If anything it’s a further drain on resources.
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How dense do you have to be to see a club go from the promise of a brand new state of the art facility, to a full redevelopment of Higgs, to a joint project with Old Leamingtonians to moving into an existing college facility and view it as a positive?!
 
Terry Gibson's perm

Terry Gibson's perm

Well-Known Member
With the price of that horrible kit I hope he has declared it as a gift to the taxman.

He is the stereotypical rugger bugger, beard unkept look a look that seems to be ok for Male or female there
 
fernandopartridge

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
The Drunken Wasps lot are realistic and pessimistic. If you go on their Once a Wasp forum (inhabited by the Johnny come lately types) they all think it's great. CCFC legal costs at £1m being blamed by one clown
 
chiefdave

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
fernandopartridge said:
The Drunken Wasps lot are realistic and pessimistic. If you go on their Once a Wasp forum (inhabited by the Johnny come lately types) they all think it's great. CCFC legal costs at £1m being blamed by one clown
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At least they've sorted the pitch out
every game huge squares of it lift up like carpet tiles in an office, and somebody runs on, drags it back in to place and jumps up and down on it.
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