General Election 2019 thread (42 Viewers)

[Brighton Sky Blue]

It shows that whichever way you look at it...remain seems to be favoured by the noisy minority

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Irrespective of personal views on Corbyn, he has been attacked by remainers for not doing enough to cancel Brexit. He has also been attacked by leavers for trying to obstruct or even revoke Brexit altogether. Would you agree that both can't be right at the same time?

A minority of 48% isn't so much a minority as being almost the same % as those who voted out.

 

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[Brighton Sky Blue]

Most European countries (including mine) have private health insurance:
Healthcare in Europe - Wikipedia

It exists here as well. The main difference being that it is not the only form available for those below 65.

 

[SkyblueBazza]

I assume you mean split it? So basically we’re back to £30 a month. Which is where I’m at anyway, except now only two of us can use it at anyone time so I’m not getting value for money despite apparently not being lazy I’ve got a worse deal. What was your point again?

No, I meant spit it out! What is your point???

If I read your point right...you need to find & cut a better deal.

I have one, & I don't consider myself some sort of ace deal breaker.

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[shmmeee]

But hey.. let us further encourage the workshy - free super-fast Wi-Fi so you can play games & watch net tv all day.
A small minority will deserve it...the majority of those that benefit will not imo

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ok boomer

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Latest polls showing the Tories continuing to gain from the Brexit Party as the Labour and Lib Dem votes remain unchanged. Lib Dems on course to facilitate Tory government #5490843058

 

[shmmeee]

But that is the point.

How many other countries of the world have a NHS? It costs an absolute fortune to run. But it does the job it was designed for. The problem is that now people live longer. So not only do we depend on the NHS for longer but now we have old age ailments we didn't used to have. Full time care costs a lot of money per person.

Then you get those who think that lifestyle health benefits are a right. Should this be allowed? Some will say yes others no. So the NHS has become a money pit.

We spend less on healthcare than most nations.

 

[SkyblueBazza]

Irrespective of personal views on Corbyn, he has been attacked by remainers for not doing enough to cancel Brexit. He has also been attacked by leavers for trying to obstruct or even revoke Brexit altogether. Would you agree that both can't be right at the same time?

A minority of 48% isn't so much a minority as being almost the same % as those who voted out.

No I can can disagree - Corbyn is trying his best to appeal to everybody on almost every issue due to pressures within the Labour party. I personally would find Labour much more appealing were they to get behind their leader & what he truly believes. One point of note is his negative personal stance on the EU. If they don't like his true stance on the EU - get rid of him! It is probably the biggest single issue facing the nation.

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[SkyblueBazza]

ok boomer

If we really want to help the hard-up...simply retain BBC funding but abolish the licence fee so it truly is free for all to watch mainstream "free to air" tv.

Not rocket science is it?

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[shmmeee]

Most European countries (including mine) have private health insurance:
Healthcare in Europe - Wikipedia

That’s not quite the truth. You linked to the wrong article, details are here: List of countries with universal health care - Wikipedia

Dutch healthcare is partially taxpayer funded, your premiums cover less than 50% of the cost and are heavily regulated and social care is entirely taxpayer funded.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

No I can can disagree - Corbyn is trying his best to appeal to everybody on almost every issue due to pressures within the Labour party. I personally would find Labour much more appealing were they to get behind their leader & what he truly believes. One point of note is his negative personal stance on the EU. If they don't like his true stance on the EU - get rid of him! It is probably the biggest single issue facing the nation.

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Yeah but the problem is that Labour's voters are more divided on this than the other parties. So they would stand to lose a significant chunk of support for committing to either option. A second referendum could have been sold as a way to either get Brexit done faster or to undo it depending on which part of the country you were in. What we have now is a proxy referendum to strengthen a fat prick's hold on power.

 

[shmmeee]

If we really want to help the hard-up...simply retain BBC funding but abolish the licence fee so it truly is free for all to watch mainstream "free to air" tv.

Not rocket science is it?

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Traditionally the argument here is that you want state media at arms length, not directly reliant on government funding budget to budget. Lest it becomes a government mouthpiece and nothing more.

But having seen what the Tories have done by threatening cuts to the settlement I’d argue that ship has sailed.

The TV licence as is will be unsustainable soon anyway as broadcast TV dies off. But I’d argue with the decline in print media a state funded impartial news source is more vital than ever. But again, I’m not sure we have that.

The Tories have succeeded in turning the left against the BBC by making it so partisan and they’re the only ones who understand the value of it. You’ve got to appreciate the game.

 

[dutchman]

That’s not quite the truth. You linked to the wrong article, details are here: List of countries with universal health care - Wikipedia

Dutch healthcare is partially taxpayer funded, your premiums cover less than 50% of the cost and are heavily regulated and social care is entirely taxpayer funded.

Even so, many Dutch pensioners have been driven to use foodbanks by the high cost of health insurance.

 

[SkyblueBazza]

Yeah but the problem is that Labour's voters are more divided on this than the other parties. So they would stand to lose a significant chunk of support for committing to either option. A second referendum could have been sold as a way to either get Brexit done faster or to undo it depending on which part of the country you were in. What we have now is a proxy referendum to strengthen a fat prick's hold on power.

But I am thing fat-prick of the UK v fat-prick of the EU is the only tangible difference!

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[fernandopartridge]

But hey.. let us further encourage the workshy - free super-fast Wi-Fi so you can play games & watch net tv all day.
A small minority will deserve it...the majority of those that benefit will not imo

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What a take

 

[shmmeee]

No I can can disagree - Corbyn is trying his best to appeal to everybody on almost every issue due to pressures within the Labour party. I personally would find Labour much more appealing were they to get behind their leader & what he truly believes. One point of note is his negative personal stance on the EU. If they don't like his true stance on the EU - get rid of him! It is probably the biggest single issue facing the nation.

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They tried. The membership told them where to go. Labour shouldn’t be full anything Remain or Leave. A government governs 100% of the country.

 

[shmmeee]

What a take

Deserving vs undeserving poor. Is it the late 19th century already?

 

[shmmeee]

Even so, many Dutch pensioners have been driven to use foodbanks by the high cost of health insurance.

Yeah I’m not arguing for a Dutch system (though I hear good things, that person is not at all a pensioner), I would be fairly agnostic on health funding if I thought for one second we could avoid the US shitshow. But the modern Tory party are drooling Americaphiles so that’ll never happen.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

But I am thing fat-prick of the UK v fat-prick of the EU is the only tangible difference!

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And yet the UK's one brings back a worse deal than the one presented in March while the European one really just wants to know what the hell we're going to do.

 

[SkyblueBazza]

Traditionally the argument here is that you want state media at arms length, not directly reliant on government funding budget to budget. Lest it becomes a government mouthpiece and nothing more.

But having seen what the Tories have done by threatening cuts to the settlement I’d argue that ship has sailed.

The TV licence as is will be unsustainable soon anyway as broadcast TV dies off. But I’d argue with the decline in print media a state funded impartial news source is more vital than ever. But again, I’m not sure we have that.

The Tories have succeeded in turning the left against the BBC by making it so partisan and they’re the only ones who understand the value of it. You’ve got to appreciate the game.

Imo STATE is the key there...the only question then is who decides what is in the state's interest...Imo fund without conditions is the only answer. Who deems what is or isn't a condition gawd only knows who could be trusted

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[Brighton Sky Blue]

Deserving vs undeserving poor. Is it the late 19th century already?

Really hope the Irish Parliamentary Party sticks it to Disraeli at PMQs next week

 

[shmmeee]

Imo STATE is the key there...the only question then is who decides what is in the state's interest...Imo fund without conditions is the only answer. Who deems what is or isn't a condition gawd only knows who could be trusted

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Conditions aren’t public is the problem. There’s no bit of paper telling the BBC to replace large chunks of its current affairs staff especially for tent pole programs like Today and QT with far right nutters. But they did. Because they were told they’d get fucked if they didn’t. Then they got fucked with the OAP licences anyway.

As soon as government controls the purse strings it’s open to abuse. Fuck knows the solution. I just worry about losing one of the last half decent news sources in the current age.

 

[SkyblueBazza]

What a take

It is definitely a realistic take.

I have been unemployed & spoken with incredulous staff at jobseekers who were amazed at the efforts I went to to find work. Now ok, some aren't capable, some have very limited capacity but just a stab in the dark - a third just cannot be arsed & want to milk the system

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[SkyblueBazza]

Conditions aren’t public is the problem. There’s no bit of paper telling the BBC to replace large chunks of its current affairs staff especially for tent pole programs like Today and QT with far right nutters. But they did. Because they were told they’d get fucked if they didn’t. Then they got fucked with the OAP licences anyway.

As soon as government controls the purse strings it’s open to abuse. Fuck knows the solution. I just worry about losing one of the last half decent news sources in the current age.

Did they get told? Maybe you rely on rumour, conjecture or know something many of us do not?

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[Brighton Sky Blue]

It is definitely a realistic take.

I have been unemployed & spoken with incredulous staff at jobseekers who were amazed at the efforts I went to to find work. Now ok, some aren't capable, some have very limited capacity but just a stab in the dark - a third just cannot be arsed & want to milk the system

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Living it up on £60 a week

 

[SkyblueBazza]

And yet the UK's one brings back a worse deal than the one presented in March while the European one really just wants to know what the hell we're going to do.

Tbh I don't disagree entirwly, I just think the MPs have provided the EU with the confusion.

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[shmmeee]

Tbh I don't disagree entirwly, I just think the MPs have provided the EU with the confusion.

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MPs can’t negotiate. It’s on the government to pick a strategy that will garner support in the house and pass the EU parliament.

 

[SkyblueBazza]

Living it up on £60 a week

Who is exactly??? A fair proportion I agree are in dire straits. And their plight is frustrated by the wasters and chancers who focus upon milji g the system. Every government faces the dilemma of providing for the genuinely needy as opposed to the genuinely scrounging.

And none of them get it right.

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[SkyblueBazza]

MPs can’t negotiate. It’s on the government to pick a strategy that will garner support in the house and pass the EU parliament.

But although t may seem ludicrous - MPs could demand that nothing short of the EU giving the UK an index linked €10b a week is acceptable.

Something has to give!

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[Brighton Sky Blue]

Tbh I don't disagree entirwly, I just think the MPs have provided the EU with the confusion.

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The EU have followed this process by the book. They have not tried to prevent us from leaving (though they would clearly like it if we revoked) and all the delays have come from our end because our politicians (on both sides) decided to make a big song and dance about the backstop. Now Boris brings back something that puts NI in a much more unfavourable position and suddenly that's what we're going with because we're fed up of waiting.

But some will continue to blame everyone except those responsible for the shitshow.

 

[skybluetony176]

No, I meant spit it out! What is your point???

If I read your point right...you need to find & cut a better deal.

I have one, & I don't consider myself some sort of ace deal breaker.

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I did spit it out. You clearly live on your own. I have a family, that means that often 4 people want/need to use the internet at the same time. My kids need internet access with a PC to do their homework so we still need broadband through the traditional telephone line. That’s not being lazy that’s the reality of life.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Who is exactly??? A fair proportion I agree are in dire straits. And their plight is frustrated by the wasters and chancers who focus upon milji g the system. Every government faces the dilemma of providing for the genuinely needy as opposed to the genuinely scrounging.

And none of them get it right.

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Nobody is. Which is why I find it odd you talk about people trying to scrounge off the state for what in modern Britain is a complete pittance. I have also claimed when in between jobs and found the posters all around the place assuming that everyone claiming JSA was doing so because they couldn't be arsed to work. It just seems strange to assume that many people actually want to live that way

 

[SkyblueBazza]

The EU have followed this process by the book. They have not tried to prevent us from leaving (though they would clearly like it if we revoked) and all the delays have come from our end because our politicians (on both sides) decided to make a big song and dance about the backstop. Now Boris brings back something that puts NI in a much more unfavourable position and suddenly that's what we're going with because we're fed up of waiting.

But some will continue to blame everyone except those responsible for the shitshow.

I cannot argue with most of that - it's just that the will of parliament & the will of the people via the referendum, & despite a GE where most campaigned to deliver the will of the people, we are no further forward really

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[SkyblueBazza]

I did spit it out. You clearly live on your own. I have a family, that means that often 4 people want/need to use the internet at the same time. My kids need internet access with a PC to do their homework so we still need broadband through the traditional telephone line. That’s not being lazy that’s the reality of life.

And if you search arou d you will find a deal that accommodates all of it. I have a household of 3 where one is a gamer at every chance, though I can still do my work, wife can still do netflix & all seems accommodated on the deal I have identified.

I am not objecting to what you say, I just think the outcome depends upon the th.e & effort you put into identifying the best contract in my experience. I have no idea what I did differently to you or anyone else.

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[Brighton Sky Blue]

I cannot argue with most of that - it's just that the will of parliament & the will of the people via the referendum, & despite a GE where most campaigned to deliver the will of the people, we are no further forward really

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Last year I was opposed to another referendum and criticised the likes of Lucas who were clearly trying to cancel the thing before negotiations had even finished. Throughout this year though it has seemed like the best way to end the uncertainty especially after deals continued to get rejected and Parliament had proved itself incapable. Yes I personally think leaving is a mistake but we could have ended the uncertainty before now with a second vote.

We have now a referendum by proxy which will give a green light for all kinds of crap to be included in party manifestos.

 

[SBAndy]

It is definitely a realistic take.

I have been unemployed & spoken with incredulous staff at jobseekers who were amazed at the efforts I went to to find work. Now ok, some aren't capable, some have very limited capacity but just a stab in the dark - a third just cannot be arsed & want to milk the system

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A third is a rather arbitrary figure, I’d be surprised if the percentage is in double figures in practice. Though I’d be all for DWP reform; I spent a short amount of time signing on when I left university before I got a job and the expectation is you apply for 3 jobs a week. I applied for 35 in the first week. 3 is a bit of a joke.