General Election 2019 thread (16 Viewers)

[Brighton Sky Blue]

defund, render unfit for purpose, privatise. The oldest trick in the neo liberal book.

It’s why Trump appoints fossil fuel executives to take charge of the EPA. Cripple it, have it do badly then bin it off.

 

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[Astute]

You will notice that I have been criticising Corbyn for his handling of Brexit for ages. But he cannot simultaneously be obstructing it and trying to cancel it.

Correct.

He should have come out with a plan from the start. The plan should have been in or out. It has cost Labour a lot of votes.

Are you saying that you haven't defended the Labour plan on Brexit.

 

[Astute]

They know they would never get away with directly dismantling it. Easier to underfund it, have it do poorly and then get a consensus for privatisation. The process for doing that in education is nearly finished.

Does NHS funding keep going up?

 

[Astute]

Compared to the other developed nations we are cheaper or on par. Compared to a free market system we are much cheaper.

Healthcare is expensive if you want to cover everyone. But any sane society does.

So how many of these developed nations you say about have funded healthcare for all?

 

[Astute]

Well yup, but since Thatcherism we have increasingly gone down the privatisation route.

If it's not nailed down the Tories usually want to privatise it.

And then we also have Trump who thinks everything is for sale and even thought he could buy Greenland.

Oh yes back to it being the Tories alone again.

Do we have to point out that the last Labour government speeded up privatisation of the NHS again? Then someone says they didn't. Then I show the irrefutable evidence. Then nobody mentions it again for a bit of time.

Been there several times before.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Does NHS funding keep going up?

Not in real terms no

 

[Otis]

Oh yes back to it being the Tories alone again.

Do we have to point out that the last Labour government speeded up privatisation of the NHS again? Then someone says they didn't. Then I show the irrefutable evidence. Then nobody mentions it again for a bit of time.

Been there several times before.

Yes, of course. We have seen bits of the NHS syphoned off for a while now.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Correct.

He should have come out with a plan from the start. The plan should have been in or out. It has cost Labour a lot of votes.

Are you saying that you haven't defended the Labour plan on Brexit.

I’ve been criticising Labour’s approach to it for ages.

 

[Otis]

I’ve been criticising Labour’s approach to it for ages.

Labour have had a problem with this from the start. Pretty much you would have to say, Labour are a remain party. Trouble is, a very large swathe of Labour voters are for leave.

 

[Astute]

Yes, of course. We have seen bits of the NHS syphoned off for a while now.

But accelerated under Labour. And only blamed on the Tories.

 

[Astute]

I’ve been criticising Labour’s approach to it for ages.

So why have you never said a word when the normal suspects have a go at me for saying it?

 

[fernandopartridge]

Easy to say but not prove.

We nearly always have a Tory government. And we still have the NHS.

We have an NHS badge but believe me it is being hollowed out all over the place

 

[Astute]

Labour have had a problem with this from the start. Pretty much you would have to say, Labour are a remain party. Trouble is, a very large swathe of Labour voters are for leave.

Yet I have always been wrong and a leaver for saying so.

Just shows the truth isn't allowed on here frequently.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

So why have you never said a word when the normal suspects have a go at me for saying it?

I have argued the point with some of the ‘normal suspects’ for ages as well.

 

[Astute]

We have an NHS badge but believe me it is being hollowed out all over the place

I know it is. But look at the comments. All supposed to be by the Tories.

I go private to try my bit to help the situation. The problem is that the costs involved keep going up.

 

[Astute]

I have argued the point with some of the ‘normal suspects’ for ages as well.

When was that? Because you have never defended me in any way for saying exactly the same thing.

 

[clint van damme]

But accelerated under Labour. And only blamed on the Tories.

I can recall many people on here including myself blaming (New) Labour for the introduction PFI, (I'm fairly sure it was actually the tories but Labour accelerated it like you said).
I'm not sure what your point is, do you think a Corbyn government would be similar to Blairs government?

 

[clint van damme]

So how many of these developed nations you say about have funded healthcare for all?

32 of 35, not all the same model as ours. Some use private insurance but it's a totally different model to the states.
and as I pointed out earlier 12-15 depending on how you calculate have higher per capita spend than we do.
62% of bankruptcies in US involve some level of health care debt, 1 in 6 deaths down to inability to afford health care.
Are you saying we should go down that route?

 

[shmmeee]

Did they get told? Maybe you rely on rumour, conjecture or know something many of us do not?

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

Well the people changed just after the settlement negotiations. The BBC news output (all I really listen to: AQ/QT/Today/PM) has got significantly more right wing. Lots of people in the know said it happened. And we all saw the free licences for OAPs bit. So as I say while there’s no bit of paper the government of the day obviously had a clear impact on the output so the result is the same even if you’re naive enough to ignore all the reports of pressure.

 

[shmmeee]

Britain won't necessarily have a choice in the matter as long as it remains in the EU. I would eventually expect the whole of the EU to adopt a single healthcare system and that's more likely to be the so-called 'Bismack model' than the Beveridge system, or possibly a mixture of the two.

Why would that happen and why wouldn’t we opt out? Is this like the EU army tinfoil hattery?

 

[shmmeee]

Correct.

He should have come out with a plan from the start. The plan should have been in or out. It has cost Labour a lot of votes.

Are you saying that you haven't defended the Labour plan on Brexit.

Labour have been soft Brexit since day one. They tagged the confirmatory referendum on recently but it’s been a customs unions “jobs first Brexit” for ages.

FactCheck: Corbyn’s changing Brexit stance

 

[clint van damme]

Why would that happen and why wouldn’t we opt out? Is this like the EU army tinfoil hattery?

Would still be preferable to the US model.

 

[Astute]

I can recall many people on here including myself blaming (New) Labour for the introduction PFI, (I'm fairly sure it was actually the tories but Labour accelerated it like you said).
I'm not sure what your point is, do you think a Corbyn government would be similar to Blairs government?

Where have I even hinted they would be the same?

So who agreed with me when I said what happened under Labour? How many agreed? Yes. Absolutely none. But how many had a go at me for mentioning it and saying I was wrong? Quite a few.

 

[Astute]

Labour have been soft Brexit since day one. They tagged the confirmatory referendum on recently but it’s been a customs unions “jobs first Brexit” for ages.

FactCheck: Corbyn’s changing Brexit stance

And it has and will continue to cost votes for Labour. And that is my point.

 

[clint van damme]

Where have I even hinted they would be the same?

So who agreed with me when I said what happened under Labour? How many agreed? Yes. Absolutely none. But how many had a go at me for mentioning it and saying I was wrong? Quite a few.

I did and others did.
Slagging Blair is only just behind slagging wasps in subjects that unite this forum.

 

[shmmeee]

Would still be preferable to the US model.

Of course. Just can’t see the EU unifying healthcare any time soon.

 

[shmmeee]

And it has and will continue to cost votes for Labour. And that is my point.

No, your point was Labour should have been in or out from day one. And they were.

 

[shmmeee]

I did and others did.
Slagging Blair is only just behind slagging wasps in subjects that unite this forum.

Astute still can’t decide is he hates Blair and want a left wing Labour or thinks Corbyn is scary and wants Blairism I see.

 

[Astute]

I did and others did.
Slagging Blair is only just behind slagging wasps in subjects that unite this forum.

It wasn't just Bliar.

But shall we look back at the abuse and who by each time I mentioned it? Look at how much Labour were defended it?

Would be one of them times that looking at an old thread makes you smile.

 

[clint van damme]

Of course. Just can’t see the EU unifying healthcare any time soon.

I don't. But just pointing out that the His mark model, although private insurance is a different animal to the US insurance system.

 

[Astute]

Of course. Just can’t see the EU unifying healthcare any time soon.

Would cost too much just to bring a couple of countries in the EU up to date.

 

[clint van damme]

It wasn't just Bliar.

But shall we look back at the abuse and who by each time I mentioned it? Look at how much Labour were defended it?

Would be one of them times that looking at an old thread makes you smile.

To be honest it's irrelevant who causes the issue. It's who's going to save the NHS that is now the question.
I don't think the answer to that is the tories

 

[Astute]

Astute still can’t decide is he hates Blair and want a left wing Labour or thinks Corbyn is scary and wants Blairism I see.

And here you are twisting the truth as usual.

Bliar should have been tried for war crimes. He took us to war on a lie. Under Corbyn Labour haven't put a strong case for or against for Brexit.

So how did you come to that rubbish?

 

[shmmeee]

And here you are twisting the truth as usual.

Bliar should have been tried for war crimes. He took us to war on a lie. Under Corbyn Labour haven't put a strong case for or against for Brexit.

So how did you come to that rubbish?

Im just poking you. You do have a habit of criticising Corbyns Labour for things Blair’s Labour did and they’re two different beasts is all.

 

[Astute]

To be honest it's irrelevant who causes the issue. It's who's going to save the NHS that is now the question.
I don't think the answer to that is the tories

Yes it is irrelevant. But it shows that once in power the reality of the situation hits home and the promises are not kept.