General Election 2019 thread (13 Viewers)

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Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Well-Known Member
Astute said:
The 'us and them' is mainly people jealous of those doing better than themselves. The next step down is those who constantly stay in debt trying to make it look they are loaded.

People like myself just don't care that there are people better off than ourselves. People need to put their energy into bettering themselves and bot trying to think of ways of making everyone more equal. Because the only way you can do it is maje everyone monetarily equal. And that is impossible.
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I'm not overly bothered about someone having more money than me. I do get a bit annoyed when that means these people get a disproportionate say in things.

There is an element of jealousy for some, but the 'us and them' mentality is even stronger the other way round. Had to deal with many people from that background and they're the most condescending people on the planet despite many of them being thick as pig-shit and only in that position because they're related to the owner. Genuinely believe they're better than you because they've been brought up in a monied background. Quite a few that feel like they're doing you a favour and you should be thanking them for the opportunity.

Even a number of women who'd done nothing at school, lived off daddy then married someone else with money and popped out a few kids and stay at home (where they're helped by a nanny/childminder / cleaner/maid yet somehow believe they're far more knowledgeable on every subject purely because they've had a privileged upbringing. That fuels the 'jealousy' more than anything.
 
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
Sky_Blue_Dreamer said:
I'm not overly bothered about someone having more money than me. I do get a bit annoyed when that means these people get a disproportionate say in things.

There is an element of jealousy for some, but the 'us and them' mentality is even stronger the other way round. Had to deal with many people from that background and they're the most condescending people on the planet despite many of them being thick as pig-shit and only in that position because they're related to the owner. Genuinely believe they're better than you because they've been brought up in a monied background. Quite a few that feel like they're doing you a favour and you should be thanking them for the opportunity.

Even a number of women who'd done nothing at school, lived off daddy then married someone else with money and popped out a few kids and stay at home (where they're helped by a nanny/childminder / cleaner/maid yet somehow believe they're far more knowledgeable on every subject purely because they've had a privileged upbringing. That fuels the 'jealousy' more than anything.
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There are different brands of private school parent though. Some are wealthy snobs, some scrimp and save to pay the fees because the local comp will be crap.
 
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
Astute said:
Exactly.

Either they haven't thought it out properly or they don't mind who is affected as long as the rich take a hint.

Yes stop the charitable status. Tax the private schools. The rich will still be able to send their kids. It is the ones stretching themselves to send their kids. And add the money raised to state school funding because much more funding is needed. And that is without many more children joining that are forced out of private schools.
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I think it’s both. But Eton and Harrow alone would throw all their legal force against it, never mind all the rest.
 
Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Well-Known Member
Brighton Sky Blue said:
There are different brands of private school parent though. Some are wealthy snobs, some scrimp and save to pay the fees because the local comp will be crap.
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There are. But it's the kids that benefit from it when they grow up that become the problem. The more generations that benefit from the privilege the more the idea that they're above everyone else sticks.

For example, one of the businesses we used to audit I got to know three generations. The eldest, who was approaching retirement and started and built the business and worked hard for it, was a nice bloke - self-confident yes and had high expectations of people but wasn't smarmy with it. His son, who had been sent to private school, was OK but definitely had the belief he was better than everyone. His son, who was in his early 20's and only just joined in the office, had an unbelievably high opinion of himself, felt everything should be done around the way he wanted it (even though some of his suggestions were just impossible) and basically looked down his nose at you.

He even once called up and said "I want such-and-such an invoice" and put the phone down. Didn't say who he was or anything - just made the demand and expected us to know it was him. Person who answered the call in the office didn't know who it was as they'd never even met him so he didn't get it. Called back five minutes later demanding to know why we hadn't sent it as if it was all we had to do and we should drop everything for his demand. When he was told we didn't know it was him who'd called he was outraged we hadn't known instinctively it was him.
 
shmmeee

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
Brighton Sky Blue said:
There are different brands of private school parent though. Some are wealthy snobs, some scrimp and save to pay the fees because the local comp will be crap.
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And fuck those parents who can’t afford it right? Let’s drain their schools of engaged parents and nice kids, I’m sure that’ll raise standards and ensure a cohesive society.

Same as those that scrimp and save to buy in a gated community, I mean they’re not all billionaires! What’s a little ghettoisation between friends? Why should they be stuck with the crappy local police force?

Maybe if they couldn’t opt their kids out a few MPs would be up for funding everyone’s school properly.
 
Astute

Astute

Well-Known Member
shmmeee said:
And fuck those parents who can’t afford it right? Let’s drain their schools of engaged parents and nice kids, I’m sure that’ll raise standards and ensure a cohesive society.

Same as those that scrimp and save to buy in a gated community, I mean they’re not all billionaires! What’s a little ghettoisation between friends? Why should they be stuck with the crappy local police force?

Maybe if they couldn’t opt their kids out a few MPs would be up for funding everyone’s school properly.
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I suppose you should be given one of them houses for nothing.

Why stop there?

Anybody who owns a home should have it taken off them and given to the council. We could all live in a council house then. Those who own their own company should get paid the same wage as everyone who works for them. If the company goes tits up then it should affect every worker and owner the same. We should all wear second hand clothes because some can't afford new. We shouldn't be allowed a car because some can't drive. No alcohol as some don't drink. No meat because of vegetarians. All dye our hair pink because some do. All smoke because some do.

Yeah great. Why not all be the same. Hard work bot allowed just in case you do well in life.

Back to reality. You must have a decent pension as you don't want them taken away.
 
Astute

Astute

Well-Known Member
Sky_Blue_Dreamer said:
There are. But it's the kids that benefit from it when they grow up that become the problem. The more generations that benefit from the privilege the more the idea that they're above everyone else sticks.

For example, one of the businesses we used to audit I got to know three generations. The eldest, who was approaching retirement and started and built the business and worked hard for it, was a nice bloke - self-confident yes and had high expectations of people but wasn't smarmy with it. His son, who had been sent to private school, was OK but definitely had the belief he was better than everyone. His son, who was in his early 20's and only just joined in the office, had an unbelievably high opinion of himself, felt everything should be done around the way he wanted it (even though some of his suggestions were just impossible) and basically looked down his nose at you.

He even once called up and said "I want such-and-such an invoice" and put the phone down. Didn't say who he was or anything - just made the demand and expected us to know it was him. Person who answered the call in the office didn't know who it was as they'd never even met him so he didn't get it. Called back five minutes later demanding to know why we hadn't sent it as if it was all we had to do and we should drop everything for his demand. When he was told we didn't know it was him who'd called he was outraged we hadn't known instinctively it was him.
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You met someone who went to a private school who was a twat so private schools should be banned? We have all met people from state schools who are twats. So should we just ban schools altogether?
 
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
shmmeee said:
And fuck those parents who can’t afford it right? Let’s drain their schools of engaged parents and nice kids, I’m sure that’ll raise standards and ensure a cohesive society.

Same as those that scrimp and save to buy in a gated community, I mean they’re not all billionaires! What’s a little ghettoisation between friends? Why should they be stuck with the crappy local police force?

Maybe if they couldn’t opt their kids out a few MPs would be up for funding everyone’s school properly.
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Significantly raise the quality of state education and private numbers will drop. The same goes for private healthcare.
 
Ian1779

Ian1779

Well-Known Member
Brighton Sky Blue said:
Significantly raise the quality of state education and private numbers will drop. The same goes for private healthcare.
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The level of structural investment and funding increases to make this happen would make Labour’s broadband policy look like a raffle prize.

There’s a reason education in this country is fucked... it started the day we thought schools should behave like businesses.
 
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
Ian1779 said:
The level of structural investment and funding increases to make this happen would make Labour’s broadband policy look like a raffle prize.

There’s a reason education in this country is fucked... it started the day we thought schools should behave like businesses.
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Maybe so-but the impact would be massive and long term.
 
Sbarcher

Sbarcher

Well-Known Member
I like to read most of the daily papers online to see their take on the election. I'm really surprised that the Mirror has virtually no articles on the election or support for Jeremy other than a jokey article about Andrew Marrs teeth! Must be a case is less is more........
 
shmmeee

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
Astute said:
I suppose you should be given one of them houses for nothing.

Why stop there?

Anybody who owns a home should have it taken off them and given to the council. We could all live in a council house then. Those who own their own company should get paid the same wage as everyone who works for them. If the company goes tits up then it should affect every worker and owner the same. We should all wear second hand clothes because some can't afford new. We shouldn't be allowed a car because some can't drive. No alcohol as some don't drink. No meat because of vegetarians. All dye our hair pink because some do. All smoke because some do.

Yeah great. Why not all be the same. Hard work bot allowed just in case you do well in life.

Back to reality. You must have a decent pension as you don't want them taken away.
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You OK mate?

Yes I’m a socialist and I want what’s best for society. All the evidence I see says letting people with money ghetto themselves away and not be impacted by the consequences of their choices is bad. It leads to social and political disharmony.

This is an ideological position of course, but so is your individualistic “I’m alright jack” attitude. I suppose you’d see nothing wrong with roving gangs stealing from weaker people and letting the disabled die in ditches if we are doing ridiculous extrapolations from fairly basic policy positions?

On this issue I accept I’m not mainstream, but TBH I wouldn’t even allow people to pick any school. Go to your local one. It’s part of your community. I worry about a completely atomised society with the decline of mass employment and religion and think there’s value in the few remaining community levellers that exist and they should be supported. Schools are the new heart of the community in many ways as one of the few levellers left.
 
Astute

Astute

Well-Known Member
shmmeee said:
You OK mate?

Yes I’m a socialist and I want what’s best for society. All the evidence I see says letting people with money ghetto themselves away and not be impacted by the consequences of their choices is bad. It leads to social and political disharmony.

This is an ideological position of course, but so is your individualistic “I’m alright jack” attitude. I suppose you’d see nothing wrong with roving gangs stealing from weaker people and letting the disabled die in ditches if we are doing ridiculous extrapolations from fairly basic policy positions?

On this issue I accept I’m not mainstream, but TBH I wouldn’t even allow people to pick any school. Go to your local one. It’s part of your community. I worry about a completely atomised society with the decline of mass employment and religion and think there’s value in the few remaining community levellers that exist and they should be supported. Schools are the new heart of the community in many ways as one of the few levellers left.
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I'm alright Jack? No. I am using common sense. You don't want anyone to have more than anyone else. So why would anyone go through all he problems of starting up companies that give people jobs if the workers employed had the same? It is the way of life. It isn't perfect. But it also isn't a stupid idea.
 
SkyBlueDom26

SkyBlueDom26

Well-Known Member
Johnnythespider said:
He'd have a job backtracking if he wasn't free to move
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Grendel

Grendel

Well-Known Member
shmmeee said:
And fuck those parents who can’t afford it right? Let’s drain their schools of engaged parents and nice kids, I’m sure that’ll raise standards and ensure a cohesive society.

Same as those that scrimp and save to buy in a gated community, I mean they’re not all billionaires! What’s a little ghettoisation between friends? Why should they be stuck with the crappy local police force?

Maybe if they couldn’t opt their kids out a few MPs would be up for funding everyone’s school properly.
Click to expand...

You really are a nasty bitter little man aren’t you?
 
clint van damme

clint van damme

Well-Known Member
Ian1779 said:
The level of structural investment and funding increases to make this happen would make Labour’s broadband policy look like a raffle prize.

There’s a reason education in this country is fucked... it started the day we thought schools should behave like businesses.
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that goes for all sorts of public services, fire service. police etc. I would say fucked up by people who know the cost of everything and the value of nothing. But given how often they get their sums wrong I'm not sure that's true.
 
shmmeee

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
clint van damme said:
that goes for all sorts of public services, fire service. police etc. I would say fucked up by people who know the cost of everything and the value of nothing. But given how often they get their sums wrong I'm not sure that's true.
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You can’t quantify that shit easily and it drives them crazy. The right wing ideology leads to social breakdown every time. They waffle on about property rights, but forget that that’s only one side of the social contract. The other is keeping the mob fed and happy.
 
shmmeee

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
Astute said:
I'm alright Jack? No. I am using common sense. You don't want anyone to have more than anyone else. So why would anyone go through all he problems of starting up companies that give people jobs if the workers employed had the same? It is the way of life. It isn't perfect. But it also isn't a stupid idea.
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So I say I think people should be invested in their local school and you read that as I want all workers to be paid the same.

I repeat: you OK mate?

If you want to talk about pay, my position is very simple: you should earn what a free market determines is your value. As free markets don’t exist, the best we can do is put some controls in around exactly how much you can screw others out of their labour and tax at the end any obvious overflow.

We have capitalism to solve problems and assign resources effectively. It’s not a star chart for the human race FFS. Clearly it’s currently not doing the job as resources aren’t well distributed and problems aren’t being solved.
 
Mcbean

Mcbean

Well-Known Member
I was in the car this morning and listened to both Boris and Corbin speak to the CBI - well there’s a lot of hollow promises in there from both - more from Corbyn free life education and training - how ! The standards will be so shit in order to provide this - waiting for Swinson as i have 15 mins left to waste today
 
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
shmmeee said:
You OK mate?

Yes I’m a socialist and I want what’s best for society. All the evidence I see says letting people with money ghetto themselves away and not be impacted by the consequences of their choices is bad. It leads to social and political disharmony.

This is an ideological position of course, but so is your individualistic “I’m alright jack” attitude. I suppose you’d see nothing wrong with roving gangs stealing from weaker people and letting the disabled die in ditches if we are doing ridiculous extrapolations from fairly basic policy positions?

On this issue I accept I’m not mainstream, but TBH I wouldn’t even allow people to pick any school. Go to your local one. It’s part of your community. I worry about a completely atomised society with the decline of mass employment and religion and think there’s value in the few remaining community levellers that exist and they should be supported. Schools are the new heart of the community in many ways as one of the few levellers left.
Click to expand...

The problem is not all primary schools are created equal. Teachers are human and so are those who run schools. There will always be some element of disparity but the answer is not to ban the private alternative.
 
clint van damme

clint van damme

Well-Known Member
Mcbean said:
I was in the car this morning and listened to both Boris and Corbin speak to the CBI - well there’s a lot of hollow promises in there from both - more from Corbyn free life education and training - how ! The standards will be so shit in order to provide this - waiting for Swinson as i have 15 mins left to waste today
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Denmark provide free university education and is ranked 3rd in the world.
 
Mcbean

Mcbean

Well-Known Member
clint van damme said:
Denmark provide free university education and is ranked 3rd in the world.
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Yes you could be right , spent quite a lot of time there - their base rate income tax is circa 60% i believe but in Denmark things work , the people are not spungers - they have taken some very pro active moves and generally they are happy with there lot - an example miles from this but makes me smile - you cannot mow your lawn on a Sunday in some areas to allow for peaceful Sundays !
 
skybluetony176

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
Mcbean said:
Yes you could be right , spent quite a lot of time there - their base rate income tax is circa 60% i believe but in Denmark things work , the people are not spungers - they have taken some very pro active moves and generally they are happy with there lot - an example miles from this but makes me smile - you cannot mow your lawn on a Sunday in some areas to allow for peaceful Sundays !
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Always in the top five of the UN’s world happiness report, more often than not the top 2.
 
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