More Wasps BS? (81 Viewers)

[SkyBlueDom26]

Totally agree if you look at my earlier posts I've already said that even with 35 points deducted i would expect Saracens to still make top six maybe even top four all dependent on if they can keep their squad together. Gloucester are stronger this season than last and Saracens will find it extremely hard to make top four (but not impossible) Exeter while still a strong side do not have the depth to compete in both Europe and domestically and i think they are desperate to do well in europe and may be below par in the premiership, Northampton and Sale will be strong along with Gloucester. while the RWC has of course had an effect on teams i also think that in recent seasons quite a few teams didn't spend up to the salary cap as they couldn't afford to but this season with CVC money most clubs have invested heavily on recruitment which has had the result in a lot of teams with big changes of personal which will take time to settle.

Heard any whispers about us returning?

 

---

[peaches and cream]

Instead of pointing out the good points for other sides can you think of a good point for London Wasps?

Already done that in previous post, keep up

 

[peaches and cream]

Heard any whispers about us returning?

nothing concrete

 

[OffenhamSkyBlue]

Totally agree if you look at my earlier posts I've already said that even with 35 points deducted i would expect Saracens to still make top six maybe even top four all dependent on if they can keep their squad together. Gloucester are stronger this season than last and Saracens will find it extremely hard to make top four (but not impossible) Exeter while still a strong side do not have the depth to compete in both Europe and domestically and i think they are desperate to do well in europe and may be below par in the premiership, Northampton and Sale will be strong along with Gloucester. while the RWC has of course had an effect on teams i also think that in recent seasons quite a few teams didn't spend up to the salary cap as they couldn't afford to but this season with CVC money most clubs have invested heavily on recruitment which has had the result in a lot of teams with big changes of personal which will take time to settle.

I really struggle to understand what has happened to Tigers in the past two or three years (since Cockerill left to go to Edinburgh, was it?). Presumably a succession of under-performing Head Coach/DoR appointments combined with bringing in mediocre players (Ford, May, etc LOL). Geordan Murphy was precisely the WRONG appointment!

 

[fernandopartridge]

Me understand?

You make out that we could have had HR back. But you ignore that we didn't have the money to buy it back and no means to raise the money. That is why Richardson sold HR and never did anything about a new ground. As you know he still lies about what happened. It was only last year that he said he had paid for the land the Ricoh stands on. Only someone like yourself who doesn't mind twisting the truth to try and make certain people look an idiot (But usually fails) would try and take blame away from Richardson.

You also ignore that they forcibly removed Richardson. Yes those who followed Richardson might have done a better job. But it was never going to be easy when HR was sold and the money used to keep us going as we werr in debt a as much as the bank would allow.

Then you also always ignore that Richardson rented back HR at 1.2m a year yet would tell us how bad it was that CCC charged us the same for a brand new stadium.

I can't be bothered conversing with you about it. You cherry pick different facts, get some facts wrong completely and then arrange an argument around them.

 

[fernandopartridge]

And state aid it is.

Pittance? Evidence?

We sold them off because of what Richardson did to our club. Maybe administration should have been the way instead.

But you are here to defend Richardson and attack CCC.


Of course not because there isn't any to back up what you say.

The State Aid argument was clearly utter shite, given that the council had some years later offered the same deal at £400k.

 

[Grendel]

And state aid it is.

Pittance? Evidence?

We sold them off because of what Richardson did to our club. Maybe administration should have been the way instead.

But you are here to defend Richardson and attack CCC.


Of course not because there isn't any to back up what you say.

Er there is a lot to back up what I say - Paul fletcher statement below:

By the time Fletcher joined the project the deal for the land - originally set up by Richardson - had been struck. The club had planned to buy 72 acres of land at the old gas works at Foleshill which would cost pounds 20m to buy and decontaminate. They then agreed to sell half of the land to Tesco for pounds 62.5m, leaving a profit of around pounds 40m to build the stadium. But the club didn't have the funds to complete the deal so a joint venture between the club and the council with both owning 50 per of the equity was agreed. However, Fletcher revealed: "Mysteriously, once the purchase of the land and sale to Tesco had been completed, Coventry City Council informed the football club that they were unable to share with them the profit from the sale of the land due to 'state aid' implications and instead offered them 50 per cent share in the company that would operate the Ricoh Arena but the council would own all the equity in the property."

Fletcher revealed the "state aid fiasco" took 12 months to sort out and cost pounds 1m in lawyers' fees. As compensation, the council offered the club 50 per cent of operating profit from the Ricoh. But the club's massive financial problems came to a head following relegation from the Premier League and under the chairmanship of Mike McGinnity, City were so desperate to stave off administration that they sold their shares to the Higgs Charitable Trust for a "snip" of around pounds 4m at a time Fletcher says theArena had been valued at pounds 37m, therefore making their share worth around pounds 18.5m. He concludes by urging the council and Higgs Charity to sell their shares back to the club a"fair and equitable price". insisting football stadiums should be owned by clubs not local authorities and charitable trusts - which is exactly what current Sky Blues owners SISU are trying to negotiate at this moment in time in order to prevent the club from going out of business.

 

[peaches and cream]

I really struggle to understand what has happened to Tigers in the past two or three years (since Cockerill left to go to Edinburgh, was it?). Presumably a succession of under-performing Head Coach/DoR appointments combined with bringing in mediocre players (Ford, May, etc LOL). Geordan Murphy was precisely the WRONG appointment!

Tigers have 5 or six quality players like Ford, May, Genge, Tuilagi, Cole and Youngs but most of the rest of the squad is going backwards hence why they have slipped down the pecking order and it is most probable that those players will go to the six nations as well which could land them in real trouble, at this point i would like to think Wasps squad is in a better position than theirs and most importantly on a upward curve with young talented players rather than players coming to the end of there career.

 

[chiefdave]

We paid a rent of around £500,000 and this then went up in the years after the initial period due to penalties imposed by the builders

PWKH I think made up some rubbish the £1.3 m rent was set as it’s what we paid at highfield road but both those statements were not correct

WIth the benefit of hindsight you can see a lot of PWKHs posts were very carefully worded so as to mislead without being an outright lie.

He claimed the rent was set based on what the club paid in the final year at HR.

What he failed to mention was that due to the delay in the Ricoh project being completed the club were paying huge penalties to the developers of HR to compensate the delay in vacating the site.

There was also an unusally large amount of work being done week to week as there was no point investing in longer term fixes. For example all the electrics in the ground needed stripping out and replacing, who was going to pay for that when we were about to leave? Instead it was patched up every week adding more to the cost of playing the final season at HR.

 

[chiefdave]

And backs up everything I have said.

Grendel.will put his spin on it soon though.

To be fair the sources you've chosen to back your point with are David Johnson and someone from the council being interviewed for Simon Gilberts error filled book!

 

[fernandopartridge]

WIth the benefit of hindsight you can see a lot of PWKHs posts were very carefully worded so as to mislead without being an outright lie.

He claimed the rent was set based on what the club paid in the final year at HR.

What he failed to mention was that due to the delay in the Ricoh project being completed the club were paying huge penalties to the developers of HR to compensate the delay in vacating the site.

There was also an unusally large amount of work being done week to week as there was no point investing in longer term fixes. For example all the electrics in the ground needed stripping out and replacing, who was going to pay for that when we were about to leave? Instead it was patched up every week adding more to the cost of playing the final season at HR.

The club really should have sued ACL for the delays. In the end they got 2 month's rent free whereas the council gave ACL 5.5 months rent free.

 

[SBAndy]

Er there is a lot to back up what I say - Paul fletcher statement below:

By the time Fletcher joined the project the deal for the land - originally set up by Richardson - had been struck. The club had planned to buy 72 acres of land at the old gas works at Foleshill which would cost pounds 20m to buy and decontaminate. They then agreed to sell half of the land to Tesco for pounds 62.5m, leaving a profit of around pounds 40m to build the stadium. But the club didn't have the funds to complete the deal so a joint venture between the club and the council with both owning 50 per of the equity was agreed. However, Fletcher revealed: "Mysteriously, once the purchase of the land and sale to Tesco had been completed, Coventry City Council informed the football club that they were unable to share with them the profit from the sale of the land due to 'state aid' implications and instead offered them 50 per cent share in the company that would operate the Ricoh Arena but the council would own all the equity in the property."

Fletcher revealed the "state aid fiasco" took 12 months to sort out and cost pounds 1m in lawyers' fees. As compensation, the council offered the club 50 per cent of operating profit from the Ricoh. But the club's massive financial problems came to a head following relegation from the Premier League and under the chairmanship of Mike McGinnity, City were so desperate to stave off administration that they sold their shares to the Higgs Charitable Trust for a "snip" of around pounds 4m at a time Fletcher says theArena had been valued at pounds 37m, therefore making their share worth around pounds 18.5m. He concludes by urging the council and Higgs Charity to sell their shares back to the club a"fair and equitable price". insisting football stadiums should be owned by clubs not local authorities and charitable trusts - which is exactly what current Sky Blues owners SISU are trying to negotiate at this moment in time in order to prevent the club from going out of business.

The club really should have sued ACL for the delays. In the end they got 2 month's rent free whereas the council gave ACL 5.5 months rent free.

Didn’t know about either of these - sources?

 

[chiefdave]

The club really should have sued ACL for the delays. In the end they got 2 month's rent free whereas the council gave ACL 5.5 months rent free.

It was a shambles. No money spinning pre-season game to open the stadium. Reduced capacity for the first league games which were pretty much guaranteed sell outs.

 

[fernandopartridge]

Didn’t know about either of these - sources?

It's elsewhere on this site, Torchy posted it based on this:

https://edemocracy.coventry.gov.uk/Data/Cabinet/200601101400/Agenda/Minutes - 10th January 2006.pdf

The Council budget for the Ricoh Arena included an allocation for the interest due on the £21million loan from the date it was advanced to CNR to construct the Arena, until the Ricoh Arena was completed. The Ricoh Arena was substantially complete on the 19th August 2005 and the first football match took place there on Saturday 20th August 2005. It was noted on the 19th August 2005, that although the Ricoh Arena was substantially complete, there were still a number of areas and items of work that were not fully completed that were in addition to the snagging list of works attached to the certificate of practical completion. -10- As would be expected in such circumstances, ACL have presented CNR with information that demonstrates the impact that the Ricoh Arena not being fully complete had on their predicted business plan during the period between the 19th August 2005 and the completion of all outstanding works. CNR recognises that there was an adverse impact on ACL and as a result, the Directors of CNR have agreed to give ACL an allowance equal to the amount of rent ACL is due to pay to CNR between the 19th August 2005 and the 31st January 2006; and time limited cashflow assistance, at a commercial rate of interest, up to an amount of £1m which will have no cost to the Counci

 

[WillenhallSkyBlues]

 

[peaches and cream]

bet that cost a few bob

 

[Alan Dugdales Moustache]

Totally agree if you look at my earlier posts I've already said that even with 35 points deducted i would expect Saracens to still make top six maybe even top four all dependent on if they can keep their squad together. Gloucester are stronger this season than last and Saracens will find it extremely hard to make top four (but not impossible) Exeter while still a strong side do not have the depth to compete in both Europe and domestically and i think they are desperate to do well in europe and may be below par in the premiership, Northampton and Sale will be strong along with Gloucester. while the RWC has of course had an effect on teams i also think that in recent seasons quite a few teams didn't spend up to the salary cap as they couldn't afford to but this season with CVC money most clubs have invested heavily on recruitment which has had the result in a lot of teams with big changes of personal which will take time to settle.

No one here really cares. Isn't there somewhere more appropriate to discuss this ?

 

[Alan Dugdales Moustache]

bet that cost a few bob

Not half as much as it will cost London wasps in the end .

 

[shepardo01]

London Wasps now bullying the established clubs out of Henley Leisure Facility by the looks of it....

 

[chiefdave]

In another one of those weird coincidences turns out Nick Eastwood is a governor at WCG, the group who are selling the facility to Wasps. Whole thing absolutely stinks and once again not a word from the Telegraph, CWR or our Trust.

 

[chiefdave]

Will put this as thumbnails as its quite long but well worth a read. Seems it will have a much larger negative impact on the local community than the likes of the Telegraph have reported. Wasps response was to say they'd put on a coach to Wasps games, they really are the lowest of the low.

 

[jordan210]

In another one of those weird coincidences turns out Nick Eastwood is a governor at WCG, the group who are selling the facility to Wasps. Whole thing absolutely stinks and once again not a word from the Telegraph, CWR or our Trust.
View attachment 13477

That doesn't seam like a massive conflict of interest now does it.

 

[MalcSB]

Will put this as thumbnails as its quite long but well worth a read. Seems it will have a much larger negative impact on the local community than the likes of the Telegraph have reported. Wasps response was to say they'd put on a coach to Wasps games, they really are the lowest of the low.
View attachment 13478 View attachment 13479 View attachment 13480 View attachment 13481

Bastards

 

[MalcSB]

Will put this as thumbnails as its quite long but well worth a read. Seems it will have a much larger negative impact on the local community than the likes of the Telegraph have reported. Wasps response was to say they'd put on a coach to Wasps games, they really are the lowest of the low.
View attachment 13478 View attachment 13479 View attachment 13480 View attachment 13481

So they are going to launch community efforts into Solihull and Birmingham, presumably that will reduce such efforts in Coventry meaning even less community benefit locally. A whole new area to give free tickets to though. I really hope their planning application is given a rough ride by the people of South Warwickshire. It’s a new low, kicking the local community out of such a facility.

 

[hill83]

Edit: Went on a rant but changed my mind. Not worth it.

 

[shepardo01]

In another one of those weird coincidences turns out Nick Eastwood is a governor at WCG, the group who are selling the facility to Wasps. Whole thing absolutely stinks and once again not a word from the Telegraph, CWR or our Trust.
View attachment 13477

Wasps said "it was a chance encounter that brought about awareness of the site"... between Wasps exec Nick Eastwood and WCGroups...Nick Eastwood???

 

[shepardo01]

Edit: Went on a rant but changed my mind. Not worth it.

I liked the original rant.... I hate them too....

 

[shepardo01]

So they are going to launch community efforts into Solihull and Birmingham, presumably that will reduce such efforts in Coventry meaning even less community benefit locally. A whole new area to give free tickets to though. I really hope their planning application is given a rough ride by the people of South Warwickshire. It’s a new low, kicking the local community out of such a facility.

They have already diverted their marketing towards Birmingham. Heavy presence over at New St grand Central over summer... whilst Ashes at Edgbaston too. Wish they would divert their attention to the Athletics stadium over there...

 

[covcity4life]

Wasps said "it was a chance encounter that brought about awareness of the site"... between Wasps exec Nick Eastwood and WCGroups...Nick Eastwood???

 

[SkyBlueDom26]

Wasps are a disgrace

 

[Magwitch]

Some good stadiums in Birmingham

 

[OffenhamSkyBlue]

In another one of those weird coincidences turns out Nick Eastwood is a governor at WCG, the group who are selling the facility to Wasps. Whole thing absolutely stinks and once again not a word from the Telegraph, CWR or our Trust.
View attachment 13477

How, in ANY WAY, can that be acceptable??? Anyone know the correct channel to use to challenge this decision? Is WCG a charity (edit - doesn't look like it) - if so, the Charities Commission may be interested. Who else?

 

[Nick]

Ha, so to try and win people over they are going to throw free tickets at them.

How does it work if Eastwood is part of both the buying and selling company?

 

[OffenhamSkyBlue]

How, in ANY WAY, can that be acceptable??? Anyone know the correct channel to use to challenge this decision? Is WCG a charity (edit - doesn't look like it) - if so, the Charities Commission may be interested. Who else?

Incidentally, I have tweeted Les Reid and the Henley Sports Centre Alliance with this info ...
Maybe i'll try Lego-head too, just for a laugh!

 

[CCFC54321]

And to think bastards from this city actually pay to watch these scum.
My hatred of wasps and all they are about deepens every time I read such news.

the day they go can’t come quick enough and then this proud city can recover.