General Election 2019 thread (45 Viewers)

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

This should be the easiest campaign ever for the Conservatives. They've been in power for a decade so should be able to reel off a list of their achievements and just say 'more of the same'.

TBH that's how their manifesto came across to me. Everything's fine (apart from Brexit) so let's just carry on pretty much as we are.

 

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[SkyblueBazza]

Increased exclusivity, price inelasticity, monopoly. If you can’t see that that chain is fucking horrendous for the ‘consumer’ there’s no hope.

Think about and then describe the terms you have used...what you think they mean in terms of our medicines

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[CCFCSteve]

There’s really an ideas drought on in centrism at the moment. Managerial politics is fine when things are ticking along OK, but we’ve got some massive transitions coming down the line fast (automation, climate, ageing) and some serious issues from the consensus of the last forty years IMO (isolation, precarious employment, social cohesion [all one problem IMO]). That takes change. Historically it’s taken something big and shocking like the three day week or the war to change direction but all of these issues are slow creepers, boiling the frog. I worry that the pain of change will remain above the pain of staying the same for some time.

As for where else: Northern Europe mostly. Especially after seeing the pensions and general ethos of such places. None of them are perfect, but most make a good fist of softening the edges of modern life.

I honestly think it all comes down to a destruction of community (I blame Thatcher ). That’s why I’m a socialist.

Just to piss some on here off even more (apologies), one of the basic reasons for me voting for Brexit was to try deliver a significant change. As I’ve said before I recognise the benefits of controlled immigration (and need in relation to ageing population issue mentioned above) for those that best benefit the country. This shouldn’t be salary based but actual needs of the country whether that be in care. hospitals, science, manufacturing....whatever is needed at the time.

I also had/have a genuine belief that if we are running net migration of 300k+ it’s bordering on impossible for infrastructure to keep up. We barely build 300k houses every year so the affordable housing crisis for the young isn’t going to improve and as I’ve highlighted before on loads of other threads the additional pressure on schools, hospitals etc is massive when the population grows rapidly.

I’m still not 100% convinced that we will end up in a better position but I also recognised that things as they were needed to change.

 

[SkyblueBazza]

This is a red line of death, you cross it you die

Okay. This is a red line of death, you cross it you die.

Okay, this is a red line of death, you cross it you die...

You'd prefer no red lines? Or no negotiations on future trade deals?

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[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

I wonder why they made this decision straight after labour shared the NHS documents...

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So much for public servants eh?

"We dictate the terms by which you're allowed to film and interview us"

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Haha, you know as well as others that post on the Brexit thread that I couldn’t vote for Lib Dem’s in this election NW !!! Revoking article 50 would be outrageous whatever your Brexit beliefs

I wouldn’t rule it out in future though. Depends on policies and circumstances at the time

Shmmeee - I have got a bit of good news I forgot to mention earlier. My local constituency is 7k labour majority so my little old vote isn’t gonna do much either way !!!

It was one of my major problems with the LD (I also not a fan of Swinson at all but I'm determined to work by policy not personality)

However, after thinking about it I reckoned "if the LD can get enough support to return a majority government then I would say that is more than adequate to suggest they have a mandate from the people to revoke article 50 and cancel Brexit." They would have to win over 27 times more seats than they did in 2017!

 

[shmmeee]

Just to piss some on here off even more (apologies), one of the basic reasons for me voting for Brexit was to try deliver a significant change. As I’ve said before I recognise the benefits of controlled immigration (and need in relation to ageing population issue mentioned above) for those that best benefit the country. This shouldn’t be salary based but actual needs of the country whether that be in care. hospitals, science, manufacturing....whatever is needed at the time.

I also had/have a genuine belief that if we are running net migration of 300k+ it’s bordering on impossible for infrastructure to keep up. We barely build 300k houses every year so the affordable housing crisis for the young isn’t going to improve and as I’ve highlighted before on loads of other threads the additional pressure on schools, hospitals etc is massive when the population grows rapidly.

I’m still not 100% convinced that we will end up in a better position but I also recognised that things as they were needed to change.

One of the things that saddens me is that that change message that was so clear the days after the Brexit vote has been lost. This election we face the starkest choice in terms of future direction for the country in my lifetime and we’ve been discussing utter utter bollocks. The Tories are likely to win and take us out of Europe, can anyone here honestly say they know what their vision is after that? Are we Singapore or Norway or America Light?

I honestly don’t think there’s a huge difference between many Brexit voters and left wingers in terms of that want for change, it’s one reason Corbyns so ambivalent on the EU. Yet the entire project seems to have been hijacked by people who it seems want a radical vision but won’t put it out to the public to be scrutinised so say it’s more of the same. Let the dog see the rabbit I say. I do wish we’d sorted Brexit before this election. Can’t help but feel we’re about to give a government a blank cheque for five years with no real idea what the plan is. What happened to Boris’ Boosterism?

 

[Grendel]

Or maybe his minders know that every time he opens his mouth he's a liability

Blair always declined even well ahead as did thatcher

 

[Deleted member 5849]

I do wish we’d sorted Brexit before this election. Can’t help but feel we’re about to give a government a blank cheque for five years with no real idea what the plan is.

Agreed. It may have descended into farce, but it was entirely right that the government couldn't force through just anything in the last parliament.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Blair always declined even well ahead as did thatcher

Doesn't make it commendable

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Did my analysis of four of the mainfestos - Con, Lab, LD and Green.

Initial reactions just from reading them were:
Green, LD, Lab, Con

After going through the points scoring it went LD, Lab, Green, Con

Looking into why I had indeed agreed strongly with more Green policies that any other party (3x more than the next - LD) but I also strongly disagreed with more of their policies than anyone else, usually regarding immigration, defence etc and some of the 'right-on" (or should that be "left-on?") policies regarding equality etc.

So from that it's left me with the decision of do I disagree with those policies enough for them to overrule the many bits I do like? Or do I go with the analysis of LD, which I don't like as much, but at the same time I don't hate as much either?

 

[Grendel]

Did my analysis of four of the mainfestos - Con, Lab, LD and Green.

Initial reactions just from reading them were:
Green, LD, Lab, Con

After going through the points scoring it went LD, Lab, Green, Con

Looking into why I had indeed agreed strongly with more Green policies that any other party (3x more than the next - LD) but I also strongly disagreed with more of their policies than anyone else, usually regarding immigration, defence etc and some of the 'right-on" (or should that be "left-on?") policies regarding equality etc.

So from that it's left me with the decision of do I disagree with those policies enough for them to overrule the many bits I do like? Or do I go with the analysis of LD, which I don't like as much, but at the same time I don't hate as much either?

Which area are you?

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Which area are you?

CovNW so unlikely to matter anyway. Reckon it might be a slightly reduced Lab majority with Robinson's retirement but still safe.

 

[Grendel]

CovNW so unlikely to matter anyway. Reckon it might be a slightly reduced Lab majority with Robinson's retirement but still safe.

Ive met the conservative candidate and had dialogue with the green and the Lib Dem candidate. The labour candidate is along with Zara Sultana managed by councillor Jane Innis and refused to have any dialogue whatsoever. They basically told us to do one. They are both clueless and disinterested in any local issues and Innes is controlling them

 

[shmmeee]

Just sat and watched most of this. Still not sure how I feel. Absolutely tames Paxman, in hindsight some very obvious policy flaws.

 

[Johnnythespider]

Who will there be to blame once we're out of the EU and the Scots and Northern Irish have gone?

The british worker, the laziest in all the world don't you know

 

[shmmeee]

The british worker, the laziest in all the world don't you know

Fucking Brits, staying here, ruining Britain.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Ive met the conservative candidate and had dialogue with the green and the Lib Dem candidate. The labour candidate is along with Zara Sultana managed by councillor Jane Innis and refused to have any dialogue whatsoever. They basically told us to do one. They are both clueless and disinterested in any local issues and Innes is controlling them

I'd be interested to know what you thought of the three candidates. As I say above I'm planning on going with policy rather than personality but as they'd be a local representative it would be nice to get a take on how approachable they are and how much they seem to care about constituency issues given your campaign (I'll reply to the PM in due course btw).

I've only done a bit of research on the candidates The Lib Dems guy has stood in other local constituencies before so I guess is local, Greens similar and has been in the area since he went to uni here. Tory one is relatively local (Nuneaton?) but quick look at her twitter feed makes her seem a very party-political kind of woman and gives impression it's "doing the time in a seat she's unlikely to win to further her career in future". I may be totally wrong on that but it's how it comes across to me and as my post above shows Con won't be getting my vote.

Lab is being parachuted in in a safe seat from London so won't be familiar with the area at all, but Lab won't be getting my vote either.

 

[Grendel]

I'd be interested to know what you thought of the three candidates. As I say above I'm planning on going with policy rather than personality but as they'd be a local representative it would be nice to get a take on how approachable they are and how much they seem to care about constituency issues given your campaign (I'll reply to the PM in due course btw).

I've only done a bit of research on the candidates The Lib Dems guy has stood in other local constituencies before so I guess is local, Greens similar and has been in the area since he went to uni here. Tory one is relatively local (Nuneaton?) but quick look at her twitter feed makes her seem a very party-political kind of woman and gives impression it's "doing the time in a seat she's unlikely to win to further her career in future". I may be totally wrong on that but it's how it comes across to me and as my post above shows Con won't be getting my vote.

Lab is being parachuted in in a safe seat from London so won't be familiar with the area at all, but Lab won't be getting my vote either.

You could cynically say the two minor candidates engage better as they cannot win but the reality is they have. The green especially

The Tory has been responsive also on e mails and has at least attempted to look interested

Trying to get anything from the labour candidate is like trying to get out of North Korea. It’s impossible

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Nice to know. Thanks for the input. :emoji_thumbsup:

 

[westcountry_skyblue]

If the Conservatives are as bad as the lefties on here keep saying,How come Labour are not miles ahead in the polls.
Can I ask all you left wingers the reason why you think they’re not ahead?
Serious answers only please?

 

[Philosoraptor]

I have always had the impression of anything Jayne Innes is involved with is akin to shuffling deckchairs on the Titanic oblivious to any real problems the ship may face.

 

[SkyBlueCharlie9]

New poll: Boris Johnson and the Conservative Party could win 366 seats at election | Daily Mail Online

People are just laughing at your ignorance now... please stop for your own sake.

 

[SkyBlueCharlie9]

If the Conservatives are as bad as the lefties on here keep saying,How come Labour are not miles ahead in the polls.
Can I ask all you left wingers the reason why you think they’re not ahead?
Serious answers only please?

I fear a large number of people are voting for BJ as he is much more charasmatic than Corbyn. However only fucking imbeciles would vote on this basis. Also the right banging on and on about commarade Corbyn I suspect is stoking fear. Labour campaign is a sticking to facts and decent ideas but middle England aren't listening. The Trump style seems to appeal to many Johnson voters.... and BJ has undoubtedly adopted that tactic. Sadly a large number of people don't vote on policies any more

 

[Philosoraptor]

Conservatives still bookies favourites for Cov South and Cov NW still a 2 horse race with nothing separating them.

Outside of course how many Labour leave voters are going to vote for the Brexit Party or not vote at all.

 

[Liquid Gold]

Did Laura K really just retweet Piers Morgan saying journalists should just bash Corbyn?!

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

If the Conservatives are as bad as the lefties on here keep saying,How come Labour are not miles ahead in the polls.
Can I ask all you left wingers the reason why you think they’re not ahead?
Serious answers only please?

Because a lot of people don't actively engage in the politics, read the manifestos or watch debates etc.

They work off soundbites, personality, family/social/media group biases and general long standing beliefs in what each party stand for. If they do take any stories in most of the main newspapers are owned by right-wing favouring organisations/individuals. Even the BBC seem to be giving the Tories a bit of an easier ride regarding stuff like racism and costings compared to those faced by Labour. There is likely also an element of position on Brexit.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Did Laura K really just retweet Piers Morgan saying journalists should just bash Corbyn?!

Probably meant to be a retweet to show the ridiculousness and lack of credibility of Piers as a 'journalist'.

 

[SkyBlueCharlie9]

haha, no worries. Yeah, something just doesn’t sit well with me with the pair of them (I think McDonnell is as powerful as Corbyn in their relationship hence me referring to them together) ie I think there’s more to their plans over and above what is being proposed/declared and I also done like their past ‘relationships’/views in relation to terrorist organisations.

Theres some really good stuff in the labour manifesto (mainly looked at the budget/costings space rather than read all) like increased funds for social care, helping homeless etc. Also, I like the focus on increasing social housing etc (brutal I know but I’d be more proactively recovering social housing from those who earn over certain sums to free up more !)

However, I don’t like the ideological spending. The broadband for all, the nationalisation of all industries (rather than maybe just any that are in a real mess - I’ve mentioned the half in/half out railways for example) etc. This spending is totally uncosted and I’d want to know where it’s coming from and what the additional interest on the borrowing would be. It’s easy to offer giveaways, everyone likes to hear they will get more but who’s paying ?

Johnson gets hammered for being economical with the truth but I find Corbyn disingenuous and in some cases as bad/worse, hence him struggling last night (paying the £60bn waspi/pensions hole out of ‘reserves’ ?!!!). Even ‘NHS for sale’ evidence today doesn’t appear to be quite as it’s being revealed. Don’t get me wrong could there be more access to US firms as part of a trade deal, yes. But do I think a UK government would agree to something that would increase NHS Medicine spending by ten of billions per annum....really ?!!! We currently spend £17-18bn, Corbyn suggesting drug costs would suddenly be 5 times more in a trade deal...how would that make economic sense when we/government pays ?!!

The fact is taxes would rise for all under the labour manifesto not just those on over £80k due to these additional uncosted amounts and potential ramifications of policies (negative reaction from the rich/business if they are pushed further). They will know this.

Probably unnecessary but might relevant for some background to me/my views. I was initially bought up in a council house by my mum and at other stages in my childhood it was just me, my brother and her, so I am all for sensible welfare/state support for those that need it most. Having said that my mum worked constantly throughout our childhood so got very little extra help (our grandparents picked up the slack)

I went to a local comp and worked hard(ish). but I don’t have an issue with private schools....it might not have ended up in the manifesto but we all know what the far left members were pushing for ie their abolition. For me, it’s parents choice. I’d love all schools to be equal but they’re not, never have been, never will be. Private school parents actually save the rest of us a fortune by not having their kids further clogging up the system.

I want a fair system which is why I’m pretty much down the middle in politics as I can see benefits on both sides. Help those that need help but encourage individuals to be ambitious and do as well for themselves and their family as possible.

Bet you wished you hadn’t asked now !

ps tried to tidy this up with cutting and pasting but wasn’t working so apologies of bits appear a little out of order

You think Corbyn knows his policies will impact on the poor. That is just bonkers. His investment plan is bold and ambitious and this country can easily afford this if the City boys, tax dodging big business and off shore tax havens are reigned in. In my eyes Corbyn has the balance about right between social, sustainability (green) and economic matter, more than the other parties!

 

[dutchman]

Conservatives still bookies favourites for Cov South and Cov NW still a 2 horse race with nothing separating them.

Knowing the area as I do I'd be dumbfounded if Labour didn't win Cov NW.

 

[jordan210]

MRP model: CON: 359 LAB: 211 SNP: 43 LDEM: 13

 

[Philosoraptor]

Knowing the area as I do I'd be dumbfounded if Labour didn't win Cov NW.

I would agree. It should be hat stand territory with a red rosette on in normal times.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

You think Corbyn knows his policies will impact on the poor. That is just bonkers. His investment plan is bold and ambitious and this country can easily afford this if the City boys, tax dodging big business and off shore tax havens are reigned in. In my eyes Corbyn has the balance about right between social, sustainability (green) and economic matter, more than the other parties!

To a certain extent I agree but I don't think it's easily affordable. It is quite a bit of money were talking about However I think he's going a bit too far too soon on the nationalism thing. Although I admire the ambition of it IMO he should've outlined it as a desire to do all of them in the future but probably just picked one as a proof of concept and to spread out the capital cost. The manifesto does also read at times like a TU recruitment drive.

Greens for me was the most ambitious and in many cases quite joined up in the thinking, stating how the cost of some things would be paid for because they would then require less funding elsewhere on things like healthcare and social costs. I was also impressed in that they're approaching the climate thing not as a massive catastrophe but also an opportunity to rebuild our economy and generate new jobs and industry to replace those that are likely to become redundant in the near future. Timescale is massively over-optimistic and therefore the costs involved are big but I guess it has to be with climate change.

LD was sort-of inbetween - impressed with the forward thinking towards energy, housing etc but not as ambitious (or more realistic depending on your take) as the Greens. Also didn't have a lot of the far-left stuff and over-the-top equality aspects.

Con as I said above - nothing really wrong apart from Brexit so lets just keep going as we are, with a bit of extra spending promises in there. All manifestos tend to use vague, largely non-committal language like 'consult', 'aim' 'improve/increase' but the Tory one was rife with it - very few nailed-on commitments - suits Boris I suppose. Compared to the others it was a very backward looking document IMO. Was also hugely about Alexander - not only was he on the front cover and had quite a few photos in it the back cover with some workers holding up a "We heart Boris" sign in particular made me want to wretch.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

I would agree. It should be hat stand territory with a red rosette on in normal times.

I think NW will stay Lab but with a much thinner majority. Cov South however could well be turned over. NE nailed on Lab

 

[Philosoraptor]

Cov NE is one of Labour's safest seats..