General Election 2019 thread (20 Viewers)

[Deleted member 5849]

So you have a private one paying in more than a state one is worth?

As I said you need to have 100k to get about 4.3k a year. And that is at retirement age. If you have a state one it would build up quickly. If you are on 30k state wage that is about £500 a year pension. Less than 9 years to get 4.3k. Could you build a 100k pot up in the private sector in less than 9 years?

And there is no risk in the state pension. All the risk is with you in the private sector pension with money purchase.

I'm telling you that my state pension is not better than my private one. You can choose to not listen to me if you want to, but I'm telling you that is the truth.

 

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[Astute]

Do you understand how long it takes to run an election?

Not long this time.

Name a way of getting millions more to vote Labour. Labour has already promised away hundreds of billions of pounds. Even that didn't work. So what is the problem?

 

[The coventrian]

average wage of a primary school teacher - £25,777
average wage of a secondary school teacher- £29,593
Average wage of a nurse - £24,588
Average wage of a Police constable - £30,933
Average wage of a fireman - £29360
Average wage of a social worker - £29,167
Average wage of a prison officer - £27,972

Who'd want to work in the public service

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How can they complain though as I guess they know the pay before going into those jobs.
My pay is good as they had to pay people good wages to get them into factory work years ago as people like you/uni types think its beneath you.
You cant have it both ways.

 

[Otis]

Do you understand how long it takes to run an election?

Does Boris understand how long it takes to get Brexit done?

 

[stupot07]

Of course it is true. If it is 1/60 Or better and average wage it is still a good pension. That is nearly 2% of your annual wage as pension each year. 30 years service is half the average wage.

Or shall we go to the average pot in the public sector? The average pot is just over 100k for a man and just over 70k for a woman.

A 100k pot would get you about £4,300 a year.

Public sector....start on 30k end on 50k...most probably more.......average somewhere about 38k depending on when pay rises are. 30 years at 1/60 would be a pension of approx 19k. This would be index linked. It would also provide a pension of about 50% for a surviving spouse. But each scheme has its own rules.

We can go into fine details if you like. It is a subject I am very clued up on.

I doubt very much the average public sector worker leaves on £50k+. That would be a head of service/senior manager role.

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[Astute]

I'm telling you that my state pension is not better than my private one. You can choose to not listen to me if you want to, but I'm telling you that is the truth.

I believe you.

But what I have stated is the truth 100%. As you know without details I can't work anything out. But if you work for a private company on 30k you would have to have your pot go up by about 11k a year on average to have about the same pension if working for the state on 30k a year with an average salary pension. But as the average wage goes up so would what your pot goes up by each year.

 

[Astute]

I doubt very much the average public sector worker leaves on £50k+. That would be a senior manager role.

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So someone on 30k now will be on 30k when they retire? Not at all. Inflation will make it much more.

 

[shmmeee]

So someone on 30k now will be on 30k when they retire? Not at all. Inflation will make it much more.

and it’s value the same...

 

[stupot07]

So someone on 30k now will be on 30k when they retire? Not at all. Inflation will make it much more.

I know a couple people recently retired from public sector after 30 years, one final salary was £24k and the other £37k, the later was a manager. Both have had to work longer because of the change in pension rights. And my inlaws retired mid 50's and have a far superior private pension, and he never managed anyone, manual skilled worker. 4 holidays a year new car every 2, expensive golf membership, out every friday and Sunday drinking, meals etc.


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[Astute]

and it’s value the same...

Exactly.

Now you realise how much we got shafted by Labour and Brown.

I had to do a lot of planning on mine. I thought I knew nearly everything until I started doing it. Now it is going up nicely. I look after a part of it myself and the rest is gaining a guaranteed 3% without fees.

It all looks complicated but if you can add up and understand financial matters it isn't too difficult.

 

[shmmeee]

Exactly.

Now you realise how much we got shafted by Labour and Brown.

I had to do a lot of planning on mine. I thought I knew nearly everything until I started doing it. Now it is going up nicely. I look after a part of it myself and the rest is gaining a guaranteed 3% without fees.

It all looks complicated but if you can add up and understand financial matters it isn't too difficult.

I do t get you. You e clearly got issues with neoliberal parties yet so t vote for the only alternative

 

[Astute]

I know a couple people recently retired from public sector after 30 years, one final salary was £24k and the other £37k, the later was a manager. Both have had to work longer because of the change in pension rights. And my inlaws retired mid 50's and have a far superior private pension, and he never managed anyone, manual skilled worker. 4 holidays a year new car every 2, expensive golf membership, out every friday and Sunday drinking, meals etc.


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And all thanks to Labour and Brown.

My company continued the scheme as it was until 2012. Then they made changes. It ended at the end of last year. They were having to put in 60% of my wage each year to keep it going. The government kept bringing out new rules and charges on where the money must be kept. Now my company is offering x30 or more depending on age of the yearly pension rights as a lump sum as it is cheaper. The older ones are taking out close to or over a million. Some have 40 years service. So 2/3 of their yearly salary times a big number.

 

[Astute]

I do t get you. You e clearly got issues with neoliberal parties yet so t vote for the only alternative

As I keep saying I know what it is like to be poor. Single parent on lots of council estates in Coventry. Saw it all. Everyone lending a fiver to feed the kids. I have kids of all ages. Two in their 30's down to my youngest two who are now 10 and 11. I now have grandchildren. I vote with my conscience.

I'm not an 'I'm alright Jack' sort of person. I've done OK. But I have had to make many sacrifices. The Tories are not for the man on the street. Anyone who thinks they are needs a lobotomy. But the finances are never safe with Labour. They try to do too much too soon.

 

[chiefdave]

Labour supporters just dont seem to grasp how loathsome Corbyn is, if Labour ditched Corbyn now, they may still have a chance of winning, but the fact that an out of touch, public school wanker like Johnson will win the election, and probably by a landslide, just shows how bad Corbyn really is.

Do you not think that Corbyn's replacement would get the same treatment from the media? They went after Miliband before Corbyn got in with all the hating the UK stuff.

I don't recall people having great concerns about Corbyn in all his years in parliament, all seemed to start when the media smears did.

 

[Grendel]

The fact is the destruction of the pension industry was the raid that was conducted by Brown and Blair in the late 90’s which the extra taxation on dividends

Given that the economy was buoyant it was not necessary but is exactly how labour will operate. It’s taken over £200 billion out the funds and made them unsustainable

The only party anyone can blame for pension destruction is Labour

 

[Grendel]

Do you not think that Corbyn's replacement would get the same treatment from the media? They went after Miliband before Corbyn got in with all the hating the UK stuff.

I don't recall people having great concerns about Corbyn in all his years in parliament, all seemed to start when the media smears did.

Corbyn in the 80’s was constantly vilified in the media?

 

[chiefdave]

What I do resent is the ya-boo-sucks smugness that comes across with some (not all). Cash is not everything in life... but when the working conditions deecline drastically, cash can be something of a compensation.

This is exactly what frustrates me. There appears to be an attitude of 'I'm OK so who cares how difficult things are for anyone else' alongside a weird idea that anyone who isn't a millionaire and not able to retire at 55 only has themselves to blame for not working hard enough. It doesn't match reality.

If people have worked hard and got themselves into that position then fair play and I'm happy for them but to then look down on everyone else and assume they are at fault for not being in the same position is harsh to say the least.

 

[Grendel]

This is exactly what frustrates me. There appears to be an attitude of 'I'm OK so who cares how difficult things are for anyone else' alongside a weird idea that anyone who isn't a millionaire and not able to retire at 55 only has themselves to blame for not working hard enough. It doesn't match reality.

If people have worked hard and got themselves into that position then fair play and I'm happy for them but to then look down on everyone else and assume they are at fault for not being in the same position is harsh to say the least.

That’s labour policy though and you seem inclined to vote for them

 

[chiefdave]

And my inlaws retired mid 50's and have a far superior private pension, and he never managed anyone, manual skilled worker. 4 holidays a year new car every 2, expensive golf membership, out every friday and Sunday drinking, meals etc.

My parents are the same. Well my Mum never worked but my Dad came out of school and was then working at Courtaulds for life. Never a manager or anything like that and was able to afford a nice house, holidays, new car every few years etc. Not saying he is rich or has an extravagant lifestyle by any stretch of the imagination but like some on here he can't grasp why I'm not in the same position as him. His pension is more than my salary!

Conveniently ignores the fact that I'm working 12 hour days, haven't had a holiday in years (I can count on one hand the holidays I've had since I left home and was no longer part of family holidays) and am driving around in a 10 year old shitty Hyundai. As with some on here he can't grasp the fact that things have changed and that I'm not pissing money up the wall.

 

[Grendel]

My parents are the same. Well my Mum never worked but my Dad came out of school and was then working at Courtaulds for life. Never a manager or anything like that and was able to afford a nice house, holidays, new car every few years etc. Not saying he is rich or has an extravagant lifestyle by any stretch of the imagination but like some on here he can't grasp why I'm not in the same position as him.

Conveniently ignores the fact that I'm working 12 hour days, haven't had a holiday in years (I can count on one hand the holidays I've had since I left home and was no longer part of family holidays) and am driving around in a 10 year old shitty Hyundai. As with some on here he can't grasp the fact that things have changed and that I'm not pissing money up the wall.

I can grasp it but the argument they had it better misses the fact that Mr Brown and the Labour Party is ruining people’s lives for generations to come and Corbyn will make it even worse

 

[Astute]

Do you not think that Corbyn's replacement would get the same treatment from the media? They went after Miliband before Corbyn got in with all the hating the UK stuff.

I don't recall people having great concerns about Corbyn in all his years in parliament, all seemed to start when the media smears did.

So it is never what Corbyn has said or done?

Someone has found a clip from him saying the BBC is biased for saying Israel should exist. So in other words he doesn't think Israel should exist.

And he still hasn't said anything that could be seen to be against Jews.

It would take some going to find someone with as many skeletons as Corbyn.

 

[Astute]

If people have worked hard and got themselves into that position then fair play and I'm happy for them but to then look down on everyone else and assume they are at fault for not being in the same position is harsh to say the least.

So point out who looks down at others.

 

[shmmeee]

As I keep saying I know what it is like to be poor. Single parent on lots of council estates in Coventry. Saw it all. Everyone lending a fiver to feed the kids. I have kids of all ages. Two in their 30's down to my youngest two who are now 10 and 11. I now have grandchildren. I vote with my conscience.

I'm not an 'I'm alright Jack' sort of person. I've done OK. But I have had to make many sacrifices. The Tories are not for the man on the street. Anyone who thinks they are needs a lobotomy. But the finances are never safe with Labour. They try to do too much too soon.

I can’t understand the finances argument. Even if you ignore the historical evidence that Labour borrow less and pay back more, this particular Tory government has a flagship policy to knock several points off our GDP. There’s every chance that they’ll spend as much but not on growing the economy. To be honest it seems like you’re going off a meme of “lol Labour spend” without actually looking at the facts.

Fair enough under spreadsheet Phil or previous moderate Tories, but both parties are promising radical spending this election. It’s just whether you want it on infrastructure and public services or on Brexit and tax breaks.

 

[chiefdave]

So it is never what Corbyn has said or done?

Not at all, of course they focus on things he has said or done. What I am saying is the idea that they get rid of Corbyn and the media is suddenly more receptive to them doesn't stack up to me looking at what happened before Corbyn got in.

Unless they go down the Blair route of becoming Tory-lite again I fully expect the media to give any new leader similar treatment. Sure they might move on from things like anti-semitism and target something else but with the same desired end result.

 

[Grendel]

I can’t understand the finances argument. Even if you ignore the historical evidence that Labour borrow less and pay back more, this particular Tory government has a flagship policy to knock several points off our GDP. There’s every chance that they’ll spend as much but not on growing the economy. To be honest it seems like you’re going off a meme of “lol Labour spend” without actually looking at the facts.

Fair enough under spreadsheet Phil or previous moderate Tories, but both parties are promising radical spending this election. It’s just whether you want it on infrastructure and public services or on Brexit and tax breaks.

labour don’t borrow less and pay back more. Your data is a lie produced by tax research - a one man Labour Party and TUC economist Richard Murphy.

This. Is. not. evidence

 

[chiefdave]

So point out who looks down at others.

There's a few people who come across that way in this thread, maybe its unintentional but it comes across as if you're in anyway struggling and not earning a fortune and looking forward to early retirement its your own fault.

You have a choice. Sit there and complain about life or get up and do something about it.

 

[Astute]

My parents are the same. Well my Mum never worked but my Dad came out of school and was then working at Courtaulds for life. Never a manager or anything like that and was able to afford a nice house, holidays, new car every few years etc. Not saying he is rich or has an extravagant lifestyle by any stretch of the imagination but like some on here he can't grasp why I'm not in the same position as him. His pension is more than my salary!

Conveniently ignores the fact that I'm working 12 hour days, haven't had a holiday in years (I can count on one hand the holidays I've had since I left home and was no longer part of family holidays) and am driving around in a 10 year old shitty Hyundai. As with some on here he can't grasp the fact that things have changed and that I'm not pissing money up the wall.

Was this aimed at me?

I never said you. So are you saying there is nobody with a rented new car, holidays all over the place and all the latest gadgets not moaning about being skint and not being able to save for a deposit?

And why is it that you have seen with your own eyes what has happened to pensions but you only have a go constantly at the Tories yet say how you can't get a pension that those before you got?

 

[Ian1779]

This is a rare occasion it would work. Even a lot of people who are voting for him don't think he will do a decent job.

Someone without baggage. Someone with charisma. Someone who could rip apart one sentence Boris. And that wouldn't be hard.

Nonsense... the press would climb all over it, the party a shambles etc.. and then you no doubt would agree with them.

 

[Astute]

There's a few people who come across that way in this thread, maybe its unintentional but it comes across as if you're in anyway struggling and not earning a fortune and looking forward to early retirement its your own fault.

Yes I said do something about it. There are people who don't try yet moan about their lot. There are well paid jobs available where I live. But would you be willing to move hours away from who and what you know and to a place where you know nobody and nothing? It is what I have done several times yet I get some make out it was easy for me. When I started looking for work the unemployment rate was nearly 12%.

As I keep saying I know it isn't easy out there. That is the reason I am a Labour voter and supporter. But I just can't bring myself to vote for him. None of this shower of shit are worth voting for.

 

[Ian1779]

Not long this time.

Name a way of getting millions more to vote Labour. Labour has already promised away hundreds of billions of pounds. Even that didn't work. So what is the problem?

People that put personality above common sense or their own wellbeing.

 

[Astute]

Nonsense... the press would climb all over it, the party a shambles etc.. and then you no doubt would agree with them.

Here you go again.

The Labour party IS a shambles. But you refuse to even consider it. You prefer to come out with excuses for Labour.

 

[Astute]

People that put personality above common sense or their own wellbeing.

So where is the common sense in Labour? Spending hundreds of billions on projects that can't be delivered in the timescale given or even the budget given?

 

[Astute]

Do you not think that Corbyn's replacement would get the same treatment from the media? They went after Miliband before Corbyn got in with all the hating the UK stuff.

I don't recall people having great concerns about Corbyn in all his years in parliament, all seemed to start when the media smears did.

So it is never what Corbyn has said or done?

Someone has found a clip from him saying the BBC is biased for saying Israel should exist. So in other words he doesn't think Israel should exist.

And he still hasn't said anything that could be seen to be against Jews.

It would take some going to find someone with as many skeletons as Corbyn.

 

[Monners]

A lot can depend on the profession that you work in. My wife used to work in the financial sector, and now works in early years education. Huge disparity in wages Also, the latter doesn’t have bonuses and share issues

The environmental sector does not pay as well as comparable levels of pay at similar grades and experience as many other sectors.

Not whinging- just pointing out that it’s a complex topic.

 

[shmmeee]

So where is the common sense in Labour? Spending hundreds of billions on projects that can't be delivered in the timescale given or even the budget given?

Says you firstly. Secondly.

Everything. You. Say. Applies. To. Both. Parties.

Both are incompetent. Both have radical plans. Both have massive uncosted spending plans.

Politics is fucked. We still have to pick a direction for the country, now more than ever. You can sit and cry about it or you can put your big boy pants on and pick the least turdy sandwich.