London Bridge (17 Viewers)

[Grendel]

You asked for evidence that people had been wrongly executed. It was provided then you asked for evidence of miscarriages of justice for terrorism. It was provided again. Thoughts?

where was it provided about terrorism?

 

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[Brighton Sky Blue]

This guy was convicted for plotting terror attacks.

Seems Grendel would have liked to have seen him being given the death penalty for that. Where do we draw the line?

What about home grown, Nazi terror plotters? A 16 year old perhaps? Should he been given the death penalty too?

Teenage neo-Nazi convicted of planning terror attack targeting synagogues

How has the death penalty worked out in a country that's had it for centuries? No murders I assume.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

where was it provided about terrorism?

There were miscarriages of justice in the cases of the Birmingham 6 and Guildford 4.

 

[Grendel]

This guy was convicted for plotting terror attacks.

Seems Grendel would have liked to have seen him being given the death penalty for that. Where do we draw the line?

What about home grown, Nazi terror plotters? A 16 year old perhaps? Should he been given the death penalty too?

Teenage neo-Nazi convicted of planning terror attack targeting synagogues

Yes

 

[Grendel]

There were miscarriages of justice in the cases of the Birmingham 6 and Guildford 4.

well they were convicted due to confessions being beaten out of them. Hardly going to happen now is it?

 

[Grendel]

How has the death penalty worked out in a country that's had it for centuries? No murders I assume.

why have prison or punishment at all then?

 

[Otis]

Yes

You would execute a 16 year old?

Wow.

What would be your minimum age, out of interest? There was a 14 year old with the Anzac terror plot too wasn't there. What about him?

 

[Grendel]

You would execute a 16 year old?

Wow.

What would be your minimum age out of interest? There was a 14 year old with the Anzac terror plot top wasn't there. What about him?

I’ve already stated I’d have executed the Bulger murderers - who wouldn’t?

 

[covcity4life]

I’m playing catch up on this thread. But it is semantics, has he done a heroic thing or is he a hero?

Can someone who has served 15 years in jail be rehabilitated? Or no matter what he murdered a girl that girl who had special needs?

If rehabilitation doesn’t work, or we as a society don’t believe it, then why do we do it?

I feel that some of this conversation is detracting that 2 people went to work on a Friday and they have been brutally murdered and will never go home.

Its detrwcting because pete and otis wouldnt just admit a good act doesnt make you a hero if you have done pure evil in past

Im happy to leave it as every time i ask them about my example scenario they dance around it

They agree with me deep down just dont want to admit it

Last i say on it. They can worship murderers all they want. Ironically anyone who auppprted the terorrist as a freedom fighter will be labelled a loonie by pete and otis

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

well they were convicted due to confessions being beaten out of them. Hardly going to happen now is it?

I'd hope not but I find it odd how you draw the line at terrorism but not murder generally. Even more peculiar that you don't see how miscarriages of justice could apply to this particular crime when they still happen with others.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

why have prison or punishment at all then?

I didn't say no punishment. But the death penalty as it stands sees the state executing an innocent person at least 4% of the time and it doesn't seem to have made a dent in the murder rate or act as a deterrent against larger scale attacks.

 

[Grendel]

I'd hope not but I find it odd how you draw the line at terrorism but not murder generally. Even more peculiar that you don't see how miscarriages of justice could apply to this particular crime when they still happen with others.

Collateral Damage

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Collateral Damage

What's that supposed to mean? Have you been on the ganja tonight or what?

 

[Otis]

I’ve already stated I’d have executed the Bulger murderers - who wouldn’t?

Me. Lots of people. They were 10 years old.

You can't go round executing children. It is immoral and pure savagery.

We will have stooped to an all-time low if we ever start executing children.

 

[shmmeee]

Without wanting to trivialise the deaths of two people (plus a terrorist), it’s a fascinating moral quandary. Two people out on release, an immigrant, a guy who dedicated his life to rehabilitation.

How much do we owe to the legacy of the victim? How does our attitudes to day release and immigration change with pulls from both sides? Can one heroic act change the past horrific act?

I think at some point you’ve got to throw your hands up and claim the wonder and complexity of humanity. And it should be a warning against black and white thinking.

 

[Otis]

Its detrwcting because pete and otis wouldnt just admit a good act doesnt make you a hero if you have done pure evil in past

Im happy to leave it as every time i ask them about my example scenario they dance around it

They agree with me deep down just dont want to admit it

Last i say on it. They can worship murderers all they want. Ironically anyone who auppprted the terorrist as a freedom fighter will be labelled a loonie by pete and otis

I have not danced around it for a second. 5Live just said everyone that helped subdue this terrorist was a hero.

And....



Passers by that helped (this murderer was one of them) were amazing heroes.

You can't say he is a hero, but then find out after that he had murdered someone previously and then say he is now not a hero. He still carried out the same act.

 

[pusbccfc]

Sickens me that a decent guy who spent his life helping people who have made big mistakes is killed by a fucking idiot he was trying to help.

 

[skybluetony176]

Not really. Why should we spend money on them?

I wish Patel would announce that once we are out of the Eu then we bring back the death penalty for these people

Why would you want to spend any tax payers money on human toilet like Khan?

We don’t have the death penalty because of our commitment to membership of the Council of Europe you moron. When we leave the EU we’ll still be members of the Council of Europe as we have been since 1949 and the Treaty of London so that ain’t going to change. Man your ignorant ass is dumb.

 

[Otis]

Sickens me that a decent guy who spent his life helping people who have made big mistakes is killed by a fucking idiot he was trying to help.

It does. Makes you feel sick to the stomach doesn't it.

 

[Otis]

Without wanting to trivialise the deaths of two people (plus a terrorist), it’s a fascinating moral quandary. Two people out on release, an immigrant, a guy who dedicated his life to rehabilitation.

How much do we owe to the legacy of the victim? How does our attitudes to day release and immigration change with pulls from both sides? Can one heroic act change the past horrific act?

I think at some point you’ve got to throw your hands up and claim the wonder and complexity of humanity. And it should be a warning against black and white thinking.

Hope Grendel read that last sentence. He seems to have such black and white thinking on so many topics and issues and invariably, so many things are not black and white at all.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Hope Grendel read that last sentence. He seems to have such black and white thinking on so many topics and issues and invariably, so many things are not black and white at all.

Well tonight he's advocated executing children alongside hoping that Labour fuck up the country so that he personally profits.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Hope Grendel read that last sentence. He seems to have such black and white thinking on so many topics and issues and invariably, so many things are not black and white at all.

The weird thing is that black-and-white thinking is often associated with young children and then as you age it becomes more nuanced. For example if you ask a small child if someone who steals something should be sent to prison they say yes. When asked if if they're stealing because they want to feed their family would affect their decision at all they reply no and asked why it's "because stealing is wrong". As you get older you look at extenuating circumstances and nuances.

For Grendel this doesn't appear to be the case.

 

[covcity4life]

Hope Grendel read that last sentence. He seems to have such black and white thinking on so many topics and issues and invariably, so many things are not black and white at all.

Pot kettle black?

You think a murder doing a good deed makes them a hero. Thats black and white thinking!

 

[Otis]

Pot kettle black?

You think a murder doing a good deed makes them a hero. Thats black and white thinking!

No, it's not. Can we not just drop it.

He was a hero in that moment. It does not make him a hero in life. He did a heroic thing on that day. Yesterday.

Let's move on. There is so much more at play here than getting stuck on one single word.

 

[covcity4life]

No, it's not. Can we not just drop it.

He was a hero in that moment. It does not make him a hero in life. He did a heroic thing on that day. Yesterday.

Let's move on. There is so much more at play here than getting stuck on one single word.

Ok. Just realise you sre now saying ehat i said all along so dont kid yourself that covcity4life was just arguing. You are now agreeing eith what i said all along

Consider it dropped

 

[Otis]

Ok. Just realise you sre now saying ehat i said all along so dont kid yourself that covcity4life was just arguing. You are now agreeing eith what i said all along

Consider it dropped

I am not agreeing with you at all.

It is dropped.

 

[covcity4life]

Not a hero in life. You agree with me

The end

 

[Tommo1993]

The interveners were very brave, and the convicted murderer had a valorous 10 or so minutes, he’s not exempt. Sad that innocent people lost lives and will continue to do so in these circumstances. Very happy that the perpetrator was shot dead though.

 

[Blind-Faith]

Just read the police and mi5 think there are around 20,000 jihadi suspects in the uk, I would argue if you suspect anyone of being involved in terrorist acts , fuck them back off to the hole they come from, would certainly help the problem I feel.

 

[Tommo1993]

Just read the police and mi5 think there are around 20,000 jihadi suspects in the uk, I would argue if you suspect anyone of being involved in terrorist acts , fuck them back off to the hole they come from, would certainly help the problem I feel.

What about when they’re born and raised in Sparkhill? Like an overwhelming amount of them are?

 

[Blind-Faith]

Don’t let them out on the streets, lock up, throw away the key, let them rot

 

[Grendel]

The weird thing is that black-and-white thinking is often associated with young children and then as you age it becomes more nuanced. For example if you ask a small child if someone who steals something should be sent to prison they say yes. When asked if if they're stealing because they want to feed their family would affect their decision at all they reply no and asked why it's "because stealing is wrong". As you get older you look at extenuating circumstances and nuances.

For Grendel this doesn't appear to be the case.

Whet extenuating circumstances and nuances did Mr Khan have in his original crime?

 

[stupot07]

Johnson personally warned about risks of freeing terrorists but said there’s ‘no money’ to deradicalise them, ex-prosecutor says

Not looking good for Boris. I'm sure he will try and spin it on Marr tomorrow.

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Johnson personally warned about risks of freeing terrorists but said there’s ‘no money’ to deradicalise them, ex-prosecutor says

Not looking good for Boris. I'm sure he will try and spin it on Marr tomorrow.

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk

Perhaps Marr could be joined by Neil as a special guest.

 

[Gazolba]

How has the death penalty worked out in a country that's had it for centuries? No murders I assume.

None of those executed ever repeated their crimes.