General Election 2019 thread (37 Viewers)

[SkyBlueDom26]

Which was one of the victims parents quote about Boris tried to weaponise the attack for electioneering.

London Bridge victim's father shares criticism calling Johnson 'beyond disgusting' for using son's death for political gain

No tragedy should ever be used for political gain, i agree with you 100%

 

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[SkyblueBazza]

What was on (in) the manifesto? There’s nothing about the four day week in there.

Meanwhile: The lies, falsehoods and misrepresentations of Boris Johnson and his government.

Not in the manifesto perhaps, but it IS Labour's stated policy over the next 10yrs. It has been criticised by some withing the party, but not retracted!

Four-day working week becomes Labour policy - LabourList

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[Grendel]

Without Brexit and Corbyn he’d be polling Lib Dem numbers. Truly a useless politician.

Drivel it would make little difference to the core vote

 

[SkyblueBazza]

Can't see this one working either...genuinely aspirational? Misguided promises? Or out & out lie???

Labour pledges to cut rail fares by a third

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[chiefdave]

Can't see this one working either...genuinely aspirational? Misguided promises? Or out & out lie???

I think before its shouted down someone needs to explain why the rail fares in this country are so much higher than everywhere else in Europe. To me that suggests either someone is making a lot of money or our costs are out of control.

 

[clint van damme]

I think before its shouted down someone needs to explain why the rail fares in this country are so much higher than everywhere else in Europe. To me that suggests either someone is making a lot of money or our costs are out of control.

the majority of ideas that have been dismissed as nonsense are operating perfectly well in other countries. If others can do it why can't we?

 

[SkyblueBazza]

I think before its shouted down someone needs to explain why the rail fares in this country are so much higher than everywhere else in Europe. To me that suggests either someone is making a lot of money or our costs are out of control.

Or the years of nationalised railway left an underfunded/inefficient & ancient network that was desperately in need of investment. Privatisation permitted the investment, & upgrading to be carried put more rapidly & efficiently. Either way - someone has to pay for it.

So rather than shouting it down, I am questioning how they will be able to lower fares...without subsidising from the national coffers...which means they will want more money from you & I & businesses that employ us.

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[Grendel]

I think before its shouted down someone needs to explain why the rail fares in this country are so much higher than everywhere else in Europe. To me that suggests either someone is making a lot of money or our costs are out of control.

Well off peak fares after inflation are lower than when privatised

 

[Ian1779]

Can't see this one working either...genuinely aspirational? Misguided promises? Or out & out lie???

Labour pledges to cut rail fares by a third

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I think that given a) train pricing is absurd and such poor value and b) considerably cheaper in pretty much every westernised country in the world that it needs to be a policy for the future.

Right now there is no incentive for any of us in the Midlands (and probably the rest of the UK) to get a train to London. You can drive there and pay parking, congestion, tube and it still be so much cheaper.

 

[Grendel]

I think that given a) train pricing is absurd and such poor value and b) considerably cheaper in pretty much every westernised country in the world that it needs to be a policy for the future.

Right now there is no incentive for any of us in the Midlands (and probably the rest of the UK) to get a train to London. You can drive there and pay parking, congestion, tube and it still be so much cheaper.

It costs £30 I went the other week

 

[clint van damme]

Or the years of nationalised railway left an underfunded/inefficient & ancient network that was desperately in need of investment. Privatisation permitted the investment, & upgrading to be carried put more rapidly & efficiently. Either way - someone has to pay for it.

So rather than shouting it down, I am questioning how they will be able to lower fares...without subsidising from the national coffers...which means they will want more money from you & I & businesses that employ us.

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the infrastructure, tracks etc are still publicly owned, it's the operators that are privatised, (except for when they make a loss, then public money bails them out).
We pay each franchise a subsidy, wouldn't that money be better off in the public purse.
When the East coast mainline had to be taken back in to public ownership after franchise failures it was government run for around -6 years and made a profit which went straight to the treasury rather than private investors - why wouldn't you roll that out over the whole network?

 

[clint van damme]

It costs £30 I went the other week

it's costing me £25 at the weekend, to be honest, West coast mainline isn't the problem. I'm not sure what's behind Virgin losing the franchise but I've always found it to be a decent service.

 

[Ian1779]

It costs £30 I went the other week

At that point you may have been lucky. I wanted to go down in Feb earlier this year, for a family of 4 (2 under 10’s) was 120 return from Wellingborough to St Pancras, after peak hours as well. There is no rational justification for that price.

 

[Grendel]

At that point you may have been lucky. I wanted to go down in Feb earlier this year, for a family of 4 (2 under 10’s) was 120 return from Wellingborough to St Pancras, after peak hours as well. There is no rational justification for that price.

Well you say I was lucky but you could just have driven to say tile hill which has free parking and every train is £30

 

[shmmeee]

Not in the manifesto perhaps, but it IS Labour's stated policy over the next 10yrs. It has been criticised by some withing the party, but not retracted!

Four-day working week becomes Labour policy - LabourList

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That’s not what Dom said though is it? A conference motion is very different to a manifesto.

 

[Grendel]

Or get to Northampton and go London midland from there it’s £25 I think

 

[shmmeee]

Can't see this one working either...genuinely aspirational? Misguided promises? Or out & out lie???

Labour pledges to cut rail fares by a third

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You lot are getting desperate now. It’s not a lie, it’s a pledge that they may or may not achieve in the future.

Johnson saying parliament didn’t pass Queens Speech is a lie for example. The Tories failing to build any affordable homes is a breaking a pledge. Two different things. All kinds of stuff can come up after a promise to make it undeliverable, that’s not the same as lying about it (unless of course you can prove that they never even tried to complete their pledge)

 

[Grendel]

That’s not what Dom said though is it? A conference motion is very different to a manifesto.

McDonnell said at the conference labour policy is to reduce the working day for everyone to A 4 day week within 10 years - the statement is now contradicted

The labour manifesto has no specific policies on workers rights at all

 

[SkyblueBazza]

I think that given a) train pricing is absurd and such poor value and b) considerably cheaper in pretty much every westernised country in the world that it needs to be a policy for the future.

Right now there is no incentive for any of us in the Midlands (and probably the rest of the UK) to get a train to London. You can drive there and pay parking, congestion, tube and it still be so much cheaper.

The UK is more than London. There is much wrong with prices & pricing. Also, a lot wrong with routes. Almost everywhere you want to get to southward goes through London or there are a tedious number of changes, &/or far higher prices.

That just adds to overcrowding on trains.

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[SkyblueBazza]

That’s not what Dom said though is it? A conference motion is very different to a manifesto.

But you wouldn't vote for a party that stated a policy which was wholly unacceptable to you just because it wasn't in their manifesto either would you?

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[Ian1779]

The UK is more than London. There is much wrong with prices & pricing. Also, a lot wrong with routes. Almost everywhere you want to get to southward goes through London or there are a tedious number of changes, &/or far higher prices.

That just adds to overcrowding on trains.

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I don’t disagree - but at some point we have to make the transition to a better system. We pioneered advances in transportation and travel, and we now are going nowhere in the pursuit of wringing every last penny out of a system no longer fit for purpose.

 

[Grendel]

I don’t disagree - but at some point we have to make the transition to a better system. We pioneered advances in transportation and travel, and we now are going nowhere in the pursuit of wringing every last penny out of a system no longer fit for purpose.

It’s no more expensive than it was when nationalised?

 

[shmmeee]

But you wouldn't vote for a party that stated a policy which was wholly unacceptable to you just because it wasn't in their manifesto either would you?

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I mean I think it’s a bit weird that you find an aspiration to reach a four day week unacceptable but each to their own.

As I say though, conference motions are always further left than the party manifesto because it’s purely made by membership and hasn’t been watered down by the party machinery yet. AFAIK the Tories don’t have an equivalent because they aren’t a democratic party so it’s more like taking things fringe groups have said.

On that point I agree, I won’t vote Tory for many reasons (rank incompetence mostly), but a large part is the states positions of its MPs that aren’t yet in its manifesto.

 

[Grendel]

I mean I think it’s a bit weird that you find an aspiration to reach a four day week unacceptable but each to their own.

As I say though, conference motions are always further left than the party manifesto because it’s purely made by membership and hasn’t been watered down by the party machinery yet. AFAIK the Tories don’t have an equivalent because they aren’t a democratic party so it’s more like taking things fringe groups have said.

On that point I agree, I won’t vote Tory for many reasons (rank incompetence mostly), but a large part is the states positions of its MPs that aren’t yet in its manifesto.

Its. labour. Policy

 

[SkyBlueCharlie9]

Hahahaha I may be younger than you but I have more common sense than you’ll ever have

Not one person on here believes that!

 

[bezzer]

I think that given a) train pricing is absurd and such poor value and b) considerably cheaper in pretty much every westernised country in the world that it needs to be a policy for the future.

Right now there is no incentive for any of us in the Midlands (and probably the rest of the UK) to get a train to London. You can drive there and pay parking, congestion, tube and it still be so much cheaper.

I booked tickets last week (2 returns) Rugby to Euston, out on Friday at 9:11 and returning Sunday 3pm. Using a TwoTogether railcard (£30 pa) it cost me £22.60 (£33.90 without the railcard).
We used to drive down, park at Edgware and get the tube in. Parking, and fuel was around £35.
I think that's pretty good value.

 

[fernandopartridge]

Or the years of nationalised railway left an underfunded/inefficient & ancient network that was desperately in need of investment. Privatisation permitted the investment, & upgrading to be carried put more rapidly & efficiently. Either way - someone has to pay for it.

So rather than shouting it down, I am questioning how they will be able to lower fares...without subsidising from the national coffers...which means they will want more money from you & I & businesses that employ us.

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Christ you talk so much drivel. All railway investment comes from the public purse, Network Rail funds the infrastructure and the DFT buys the trains. The private train operators only lease trains for the length of their franchise. They invest very little.

 

[shmmeee]

I booked tickets last week (2 returns) Rugby to Euston, out on Friday at 9:11 and returning Sunday 3pm. Using a TwoTogether railcard (£30 pa) it cost me £22.60 (£33.90 without the railcard).
We used to drive down, park at Edgware and get the tube in. Parking, and fuel was around £35.
I think that's pretty good value.

In Europe that’d buy you a ticket from Amsterdam to Paris. Just saying.

Mass transit should be an order of magnitude cheaper than private travel.

 

[stupot07]

Christ you talk so much drivel. All railway investment comes from the public purse, Network Rail funds the infrastructure and the DFT buys the trains. The private train operators only lease trains for the length of their franchise. They invest very little.

Yup, saw on the news that they rail company owners/shareholders took £1.5bn in payouts last year, at a time they put prices up and recieved £5bn government funding. All the rail companies are worried it is line their pocket.

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[Monners]

Or get to Northampton and go London midland from there it’s £25 I think

It’s now London Northwestern. (Part of West Midlands Railways).

The cheapest peak travel that I can do is £40 with a railcard (from Northampton). That’s booking advance on specific trains. Otherwise it’s about £60. £69 for a travel card.

 

[SkyBlueDom26]

Not one person on here believes that!

Abit slow to react ain't ya?

 

[shmmeee]

Not one person on here believes that!

Hey now, he’s got a degree from the University of Life in Common Sense and Hard Knocks!

 

[Ian1779]

The meltdown on this thread if Boris gets a majority will be hilarious, will be interesting to see what excuses people will come up with.....

Not nearly as fun as it would be if Corbyn is in No.10

 

[Ian1779]

I booked tickets last week (2 returns) Rugby to Euston, out on Friday at 9:11 and returning Sunday 3pm. Using a TwoTogether railcard (£30 pa) it cost me £22.60 (£33.90 without the railcard).
We used to drive down, park at Edgware and get the tube in. Parking, and fuel was around £35.
I think that's pretty good value.

There is some good value - but it’s too few and far between.

If you want to encourage people to access public transport it needs to be cheap even for the causal user. You should pay the same price at any point of use.

I’ve used public transport in Scandavia, Central Europe and Australia - I’ve been able to travel several hundred miles (in one case between 2 countries) for the cost of a pint - modern, clean, spacious.

I’ve yet to see a reason why we can’t have the same in this country.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Not nearly as fun as it would be if Corbyn is in No.10

Since we have had 0 polls in months suggesting that, think we can safely say it isn’t happening