General Election 2019 thread (51 Viewers)

[Deleted member 5849]

You're being a tit...many people use hypothetical examples to make a point. Even yourself I am sure.



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What if they were to consult on a policy of coating the streets in sugar, before making diabetics lick it up in sunny weather when it became sticky?

What if!

 

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[SkyblueBazza]

What kind of world do we live in where looking into whether it's feasible to improve workers' conditions is a vote loser...?

The same one where any effort to run a free at point of care health service more efficiently while improving patient outcomes is derided?

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[SkyblueBazza]

Asked why he was staying out of the election, Trump said:

"Because I don’t want to complicate it. I’ll stay out of the election. You know that I was a fan of Brexit. I called it the day before.
I think Boris is very capable and I think he’ll do a good job."

Trump has repeatedly claimed that he predicted the result of the Brexit referendum in advance, when he was visiting his golf course in Scotland. As explained here, this is not true. FactCheck: Did Donald Trump predict Brexit at his Scottish golf course the day before the vote?

Trump has been proven time and again to be a compulsive liar.....just like he blonde shaggy haired mate.


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To be fair he might have done so in a private conversation. Who cares?

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[shmmeee]

The same one where any effort to run a free at point of care health service more efficiently while improving patient outcomes is derided?

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Hahahahaha. What effort was that then? You realise we have one of the most cost efficient health services and the Tories market based reforms were ideological changes that cost billions.

 

[Monners]

Quoted for posterity!

Brown's error was allowing the PR machine to try and portray him as Blair-lite, when what the country was crying out for was an anti Blair. Brown, deep thinking, conviction politician who kept his personal life out of the limelight instead of using it for political gain, was it, if they'd let him be himself. What they saw as weaknesses were his strengths.

Have to say, Blair and Brown's governments are the best ones during my lifetime. In my view, of course. They weren't as left as I'd have liked there are some obvious sticks to beat Blair with, in particular, but there was a return to a general philosophy of inclusiveness within society.

Plus my Mum could catch a bus into town again(!)

Same in my lifetime (53 and getting older). Apart from the illegal war and Blair’s almost Thatcheresque megalomania. I thought Brown was a serious politician though. Shame John Smith didn’t get his chance.

 

[SkyblueBazza]

He also said he wasn't interested in the NHS even if it was handed to him on a silver platter. You seem to have missed that bit out. Don't understand why.....

Selective hearing, seeing & believing.

I was lampooned a little for suggesting I view everything any of the same with scepticism.
As I just offered a comment on Trump, some of the Muppets on here will have me as his friend as well as Bojo's & Farage's no doubt. Balance is only for science it seems.

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[shmmeee]

Same in my lifetime (53 and getting older). Apart from the illegal war and Blair’s almost Thatcheresque megalomania. I thought Brown was a serious politician though. Shame John Smith didn’t get his chance.

Brown is the most underrated PM we’ve ever had. Maybe second to Major.

 

[shmmeee]

He also said he wasn't interested in the NHS even if it was handed to him on a silver platter. You seem to have missed that bit out. Don't understand why.....

Because it’s clear nonsense he’s been asked to say because we are in an election period. Come on, he’s so bad at this you can tell when he’s giving a line. Especially as it goes against every piece of evidence we have.

Everyone was saying before he came that he’d be told to stay well away from Boris and the NHS because he’ll do damage. lo and behold that’s what’s happened.

 

[stupot07]

He also said he wasn't interested in the NHS even if it was handed to him on a silver platter. You seem to have missed that bit out. Don't understand why.....

Dom has already posted that bit, I didnt feel the need to repost it.

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[chiefdave]

Here we go Labour lovers, this is what you want for our country

Disgraceful

Have you actually read the article? It says the current system doesn't work. The current system led to the attack last week so if you are saying the article is rubbish are you saying we stick with the current system and risk more attacks like last week?

"The “lock ’em up & throw away the key” battle cry may suit a panicked politician in the middle of a general election campaign, but it isn’t going to keep us safe from another Usman Khan”

Justify that title

That's not the title but anyway the point being made is that we already have the 'lock them up and throw away the key' option and that didn't stop this attack. Therefore the likes of Johnson just saying 'lock them up' is saying keep doing the same as at present and fingers crossed for a different outcome.

 

[SkyBlueDom26]

Dom has already posted that bit, I didnt feel the need to repost it.

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Because its true

 

[stupot07]

Because its true

It's not.

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[SkyblueBazza]

What if they were to consult on a policy of coating the streets in sugar, before making diabetics lick it up in sunny weather when it became sticky?

What if!

No I wouldn't vote a party with that as a policy. Not until it was clearly stated on record to no longer be a policy. Whether it be in a manifesto or not.

How about you?

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[Nick]

It's project fear.

 

[skybluetony176]

What has been said is that it was on THEIR 'wishlist' to discuss Pharma pricing - which is NOT privatising. 'Opening up the NHS to big US Pharma' is a scare story. They are already here. They price products competitively ageing EU & UK Pharma. If US Pharma get patent extensions, so do EU & British.
Patent life was last extended in 1995 for drugs filed. There is an argument that this helps reduce the overall cost of drugs as they can recoup development costs over a longer period, but that it would also free up more money to be reinvested in research of the next generation of potentially life-saving medications.

You won't miss them unless you are ever unfortunate enough to need them!

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On the single issue of drug prices if as being discussed the extension of licensing for drugs is approved (let’s remember that they’re talking about it) that single action on this single issue of many issues in the NHS could cost the NHS more a year than we send to the EU a year. The NHS wasn’t the only thing being discussed though. Secret courts where American corporations could sue the British government if it does something like close a coal fired power station and the American coal industry loses a customer.
Brexiteers should be the most concerned about this document as it’s a road map to take whatever sovereignty they think we’ve lost to the EU and hand it straight to the US with interest. Yet...

 

[SkyblueBazza]

Hahahahaha. What effort was that then? You realise we have one of the most cost efficient health services and the Tories market based reforms were ideological changes that cost billions.

All governments (including this one) for as long as I can remember have spent unimaginable sums restructuring our NHS...so somebody sees some potential for further improvement. It depends how you measure it.

Personally, based on my own knowledge & experience...6wks to wait for a GP appointment, with a GP I have never seen or heard of. I think that is certainly two things that ought to be addressed for a start.

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[chiefdave]

The problem that has been highlighted several times on here is we shouldn't trust the Tories because of the previous times they have been in power yet we should forget what happened on the previous times Labour have been in power. Don't you think that Tory voters push the same ideals?

In my opinion there's a big difference between saying don't trust the current Government based on the actions of the current government and don't trust the opposition based on their past performance in government under a completely different ideology.

 

[SkyblueBazza]

Because it’s clear nonsense he’s been asked to say because we are in an election period. Come on, he’s so bad at this you can tell when he’s giving a line. Especially as it goes against every piece of evidence we have.

Everyone was saying before he came that he’d be told to stay well away from Boris and the NHS because he’ll do damage. lo and behold that’s what’s happened.

What...you mean...A CONSPIRACY???!

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[shmmeee]

All governments (including this one) for as long as I can remember have spent unimaginable sums restructuring our NHS...so somebody sees some potential for further improvement. It depends how you measure it.

Personally, based on my own knowledge & experience...6wks to wait for a GP appointment, with a GP I have never seen or heard of. I think that is certainly two things that ought to be addressed for a start.

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There’s loads that needs to be sorted. Most of it from my limited discussions with NHS staff has come from either Blair or the Tories more recently trying to make the NHS “more like private industry” with management consultants and layers of beuracracy (sp?) that would best be solved by getting the fuck out of their way, and giving them the staff and resources they need.

I saw it in schools with the whole “competition” angle. Public service just doesn’t work like that and it just introduces a load of middle men who cream a profit off.

Free markets are only efficient if they are actually free markets. Health, education, policing, aren’t free markets by any stretch of the imagination.

 

[SkyblueBazza]

On the single issue of drug prices if as being discussed the extension of licensing for drugs is approved (let’s remember that they’re talking about it) that single action on this single issue of many issues in the NHS could cost the NHS more a year than we send to the EU a year. The NHS wasn’t the only thing being discussed though. Secret courts where American corporations could sue the British government if it does something like close a coal fired power station and the American coal industry loses a customer.
Brexiteers should be the most concerned about this document as it’s a road map to take whatever sovereignty they think we’ve lost to the EU and hand it straight to the US with interest. Yet...

First point...THEY (the US) WANT to talk about it as part of negotiations on a trade deal. Doesn't mean it WILL be in the negotiations.

The rest is back to the same thing...they want to discuss it doesn't mean it WILL be nor even if it is discussed, that it WILL be as they want in the final agreement

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[shmmeee]

What...you mean...A CONSPIRACY???!

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No. Just a proven liar lying for his proven liar mate. No conspiracy needed.

 

[shmmeee]

First point...THEY (the US) WANT to talk about it as part of negotiations on a trade deal. Doesn't mean it WILL be in the negotiations.

The rest is back to the same thing...they want to discuss it doesn't mean it WILL be nor even if it is discussed, that it WILL be as they want in the final agreement

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The US stated areas that were off the table. We didn’t. Those are the facts.

 

[skybluetony176]

What if they were to consult on a policy of coating the streets in sugar, before making diabetics lick it up in sunny weather when it became sticky?

What if!

Is that what you want because that’s what will happen!

 

[Nick]

Is that what you want because that’s what will happen!

Like for the Harry Enfield quote whether you meant it or not.

 

[shmmeee]

Is that what you want because that’s what will happen!

 

[SkyblueBazza]

There’s loads that needs to be sorted. Most of it from my limited discussions with NHS staff has come from either Blair or the Tories more recently trying to make the NHS “more like private industry” with management consultants and layers of beuracracy (sp?) that would best be solved by getting the fuck out of their way, and giving them the staff and resources they need.

I saw it in schools with the whole “competition” angle. Public service just doesn’t work like that and it just introduces a load of middle men who cream a profit off.

Free markets are only efficient if they are actually free markets. Health, education, policing, aren’t free markets by any stretch of the imagination.

Wouldn't disagree on any of that.

Your last point is an interesting one that coupled with your first point applies absolutely to the EU & being a part of it as well

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[shmmeee]

Like for the Harry Enfield quote whether you meant it or not.

He did. See previous Harry Enfield reference.

 

[chiefdave]

One question for you. The question that never gets answered. When was the last decent Labour government? I'm 51 and have never had one.

When was the last decent government full stop? In my lifetime I've had Heath, Wilson and Gallaghan, all of which I have no memory of.

Then it was Thatcher during my childhood. Memories of the power going off, strikes, riots etc. The economy crashing and people losing their homes due to negative equity.

Then onto Major, who seemed OK but seemed to not be Thatcher enough for the Conservatives and not different enough to Thatcher for everyone else.

Onto Blair, the less said about him the better. Brown was better but didn't really seem to be given a chance.

Cameron was basically the Conservative's Blair and equally as bad. Then the useless May and incompetent Johnson.

All in all a pretty depressing list.

 

[SkyblueBazza]

No. Just a proven liar lying for his proven liar mate. No conspiracy needed.

So you think Bojo sends a text or some little helper over to tell Trump, one of if not THE most powerful man in the world, what to do & say?

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[clint van damme]

Which reinforces what I said really doesn't it?

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not one little bit.
People have provided plenty of counter arguments to your points on here and the EU thread when the subject of the NHS is raised. You may not agree, your prerogative.

 

[skybluetony176]

You're being a tit...many people use hypothetical examples to make a point. Even yourself I am sure.



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What like we can’t trust Trump because he thinks it’s OK to grab women by the pussy? No wait that’s true. We can’t trust Trump because the self certified genius uses....... No wait... that’s true also. Just the 3 dots you genius. We can’t trust Trump because he said that in a trade negotiations everything is on the table even the NHS. Nope, again true. We can’t trust Trump because he tells people to go back to where they come from. Nope, also true. New York apparently. OK not the best example, let’s try Boris then. Parliament blocked his deal. No wait... Parliament passed his deal. Parliament blocked his queen speech. No wait... it didn’t. Here’s a good one. BBC presenters under the strictest control of their charter are allowed to call Boris a racist and a liar. Surely that’s got to be an imaginary scenario. What? It isn’t.

And that in a nutshell is why I don’t need to make up imaginary scenarios to discredit Boris etc. The reality is far worse than anything I could imagine.

 

[clint van damme]

That the Tory government has dropped the ball on deradicalisation? A politician attacking an opponent in an election period? What a shocker!

Have you actually read the article?

I'd say lifting a control order on a known terrorist so they can go and do your dirty work in Libya and as a consequence they slip under the radar and carry out the bombing of a pop concert is the very definition of dropping the ball.
Telling police chiefs that they were drama queens when they warned you it would happen is dropping the ball, sticking a big knife through it and setting it on fire.

 

[skybluetony176]

Brown is the most underrated PM we’ve ever had. Maybe second to Major.

Certainly in my lifetime. Major edges it for me because of his work that ultimately led to the GFA. Having spent a great deal of time over the years in Northern Ireland in the troubles, from the ceasefire until the GFA and the period since the GFA I really appreciate what a great piece of politics and diplomacy that was, true leadership.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

So you think Bojo sends a text or some little helper over to tell Trump, one of if not THE most powerful man in the world, what to do & say?

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No I think Trump's aides tell him to say it if he wants Alexander to win so they could potentially be on the table in the trade deal. Or he can say 'yes' or 'we're looking into that' and lose Johnson votes so it's not available to US companies.

I think the whole thing is semantics anyway. Technically 'the NHS' wouldn't be on the table. But all the services etc could be put up for tender with the US being given first dibs on them. So although 'the NHS' is still public in terms of funding and availability to all, it's all provided by private companies.

Being a largely closed system it's more liable to profiteering - all you need to ensure is that your tender is the one accepted and we've seen before that hasn't necessarily gone to the cheapest/best available. G4S continually fuck up yet get given huge swathes of govt contracts. If these companies come back and say we can't do it for the quoted price then it's either cough up or let the system fail, which would be catastrophic politically as well as for the population. If it did it would have to be taken back over by the state so once again profits are privatised, losses are nationalised and ends up costing more than if the state had just provided it in the first place.

 

[skybluetony176]

First point...THEY (the US) WANT to talk about it as part of negotiations on a trade deal. Doesn't mean it WILL be in the negotiations.

The rest is back to the same thing...they want to discuss it doesn't mean it WILL be nor even if it is discussed, that it WILL be as they want in the final agreement

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Do you know that the word gullible isn’t in the dictionary?