London Bridge (11 Viewers)

[Sky Blue Pete]

I appreciate your sentiment, but when are you and others going to realise that not all souls can be saved?

There are people in this world that need locking up/taken out of it. No friendly chats or rehabilitation can save them.

Oh all souls can be saved that’s not the same as having a justice system that serves society well though. Interesting there are 75 people locked away for whole life terms. Can’t work out the wider issues but this guy shouldn’t have been released without probation considering his risk to society

 

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[shmmeee]

Oh all souls can be saved that’s not the same as having a justice system that serves society well though. Interesting there are 75 people locked away for whole life terms. Can’t work out the wider issues but this guy shouldn’t have been released without probation considering his risk to society

It’s easy saying that now. Same as we can all say Ian Huntley shouldn’t have been allowed near kids. Or Saville was a pedo.

Yet no one can tell me who the next pedo or terrorist will be. Which if it’s so easy to spot who can be redeemed and who can’t should be simple.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

It’s easy saying that now. Same as we can all say Ian Huntley shouldn’t have been allowed near kids. Or Saville was a pedo.

Yet no one can tell me who the next pedo or terrorist will be. Which if it’s so easy to spot who can be redeemed and who can’t should be simple.

Yep course

 

[ccfc92]

How can you spot these “unsavable souls”. And what if you’re an atheist and don’t believe in souls?

My point was more aimed at the already convicted.

 

[Alan Dugdales Moustache]

Metro headline says about the two young people murdered that they were killed for caring.
I think they were killed by the hatred which divides nation from nation, race from race and class from class in the words of the cathedral litany. All the hate papers are showing their hatred this morning. They really aren’t part of any solution

There is no solution. I don't want to hug a terrorist who blows up children in Manchester etc. I want them to die a very slow and painful death. Sorry but they deserve nothing less.

 

[Grendel]

Oh all souls can be saved that’s not the same as having a justice system that serves society well though. Interesting there are 75 people locked away for whole life terms. Can’t work out the wider issues but this guy shouldn’t have been released without probation considering his risk to society

If seriously think that Usman Khan could be saved by roasting marshmallows and singing Kumbaya round the campfire your insane

 

[Grendel]

There is no solution. I don't want to hug a terrorist who blows up children in Manchester etc. I want them to die a very slow and painful death. Sorry but they deserve nothing less.

Correct - I also found it staggering that there was even a report on the death of Dennis Neilson and his undignified death. His many victims had zero dignity and the only question should be why one penny of NHS funding was spent treating the creep in the first place

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

If seriously think that Usman Khan could be saved by roasting marshmallows and singing Kumbaya round the campfire your insane

I don’t what have I said that makes you think that?

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

There is no solution. I don't want to hug a terrorist who blows up children in Manchester etc. I want them to die a very slow and painful death. Sorry but they deserve nothing less.

I think he killed himself

 

[shmmeee]

My point was more aimed at the already convicted.

So none of them are savable?

Im not trying to be a cock. But either you think some people can change and therefore you need a system to try and change all people and assess the level of that change, or you don’t think anyone can change and we condemn people for life on first offence.

Assuming you’re somewhere in the former category, how do we tell?

There was an interesting woman on R4 this morning saying how traditional rehabilitation techniques aren’t proven to work with terrorists and how we need to look at other places but no ones really got it right. That I can buy, that we need better rehab specifically for terrorists, but the point still stands that you don’t write people off after one offence. Or even two or three arguably

How many chances would we want a child of ours to be given? It’s a really thorny question.

 

[SkyBlueDom26]

So none of them are savable?

Im not trying to be a cock. But either you think some people can change and therefore you need a system to try and change all people and assess the level of that change, or you don’t think anyone can change and we condemn people for life on first offence.

Assuming you’re somewhere in the former category, how do we tell?

There was an interesting woman on R4 this morning saying how traditional rehabilitation techniques aren’t proven to work with terrorists and how we need to look at other places but no ones really got it right. That I can buy, that we need better rehab specifically for terrorists, but the point still stands that you don’t write people off after one offence. Or even two or three arguably

How many chances would we want a child of ours to be given? It’s a really thorny question.

They are terrorists. Why in any way would you think they could be savable?:banghead::banghead::banghead:

 

[shmmeee]

They are terrorists. Why in any way would you think they could be savable?:banghead::banghead::banghead:

Maajid Nawaz - Wikipedia

Another thing you’ll understand when you grow up. Life isn’t like the movies, easily split into goodies and baddies.

 

[SkyBlueDom26]

Maajid Nawaz - Wikipedia

Another thing you’ll understand when you grow up. Life isn’t like the movies, easily split into goodies and baddies.

But how can you argue, like honestly now.... that people who have tried and planned to commit terrorist attacks against innocent people can seriously be reformed? Simple answer is they can't and they will be a huge threat to our safety and security

Would you feel safe living next to someone convicted?? I think if we surveyed this question we know what the majority answer would be

 

[Otis]

They are terrorists. Why in any way would you think they could be savable?:banghead::banghead::banghead:

There was a bloke on 5Live yesterday. Was a former terrorist jihadist. Had totally turned his life around and was now employed in a role to trying to stop others becoming radicalised.

He now totally rejected his previous life and beliefs.

 

[clint van damme]

But how can you argue, like honestly now.... that people who have tried and planned to commit terrorist attacks against innocent people can seriously be reformed? Simple answer is they can't and they will be a huge threat to our safety and security

Would you feel safe living next to someone convicted?? I think if we surveyed this question we know what the majority answer would be

He's just given you an example of someone that has been reformed, Nawaz, I'd imagine is in a minority, but he's an example that reform can happen none the less.
Having listened to his radio show I wish they had kept him in jail.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

They are terrorists. Why in any way would you think they could be savable?:banghead::banghead::banghead:

Nelson Mandela was considered a terrorist for many years.

 

[SkyBlueDom26]

Nelson Mandela was considered a terrorist for many years.

Of course you'd disagree with a point i made, wouldn't expect anything less

 

[Otis]

Nelson Mandela was considered a terrorist for many years.

Yup, our Maggie called him one, didn't she?

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Of course you'd disagree with a point i made, wouldn't expect anything less

You know, I gave you a chancve, thought you might have found your brain cell, but this response shows, yet again, that you're clearly too stupid to engage in rational conversation.

 

[Grendel]

Nelson Mandela was considered a terrorist for many years.

If you follow that logic he won and managed to get the society he wanted. I don’t want the society Usman Khan is fighting for

 

[Grendel]

Yup, our Maggie called him one, didn't she?

She called Gerry Adams one as well - unlike Mr Corbyn who sold his book for him in the commons

 

[Deleted member 5849]

If you follow that logic he won and managed to get the society he wanted. I don’t want the society Usman Khan is fighting for

I agree.

I'm just pointing out that the blanket qualifier of 'terrorist' shouldn't be used to judge.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

I agree.

I'm just pointing out that the blanket qualifier of 'terrorist' shouldn't be used to judge.

The Suffragettes became radicalised and were considered 'terrorists'. They bombed/set fire to shops and offices and physically attacked MP's. Only stopped due to WWI.

 

[Monners]

She called Gerry Adams one as well - unlike Mr Corbyn who sold his book for him in the commons

Was Michael Collins a terrorist? Eamonn De Valera? James Connolly? Padraig Pearce?

Menachin Begin when fighting against the British empire for the creation of a Jewish homeland?
Mandela was a very competent bomb maker by all accounts.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

So none of them are savable?

Im not trying to be a cock. But either you think some people can change and therefore you need a system to try and change all people and assess the level of that change, or you don’t think anyone can change and we condemn people for life on first offence.

Assuming you’re somewhere in the former category, how do we tell?

There was an interesting woman on R4 this morning saying how traditional rehabilitation techniques aren’t proven to work with terrorists and how we need to look at other places but no ones really got it right. That I can buy, that we need better rehab specifically for terrorists, but the point still stands that you don’t write people off after one offence. Or even two or three arguably

How many chances would we want a child of ours to be given? It’s a really thorny question.

Although this probably wouldn't be popular and wouldn't be suitable for all but maybe one of the ways to look at it differently if more traditional rehabilitation isn't working is to question the logic of their beliefs and point out the obvious flaws and errors.

The obvious obstacle is that some would see it as 'conditioning' but IMO you're far less likely to try and kill someone over your beliefs if there's a bit of doubt in your mind about them.

 

[shmmeee]

But how can you argue, like honestly now.... that people who have tried and planned to commit terrorist attacks against innocent people can seriously be reformed? Simple answer is they can't and they will be a huge threat to our safety and security

Would you feel safe living next to someone convicted?? I think if we surveyed this question we know what the majority answer would be

https://www.washingtonpost.com/loca...9a7b18-47aa-11e7-98cd-af64b4fe2dfc_story.html

There’s one from the states. You’ve been given Mandela and Nawaz. What about most of those involved in Irish terrorism that are now law abiding members of government?

There’s countless stories of reformed terrorists. Just because you use the word terrorist doesn’t make them some special creature. They’re humans.

Terrorism needs better deradicalisation strategies (that thing you think is so terrible in the other thread), they’ve basically been brainwashed and need reprogramming, but it’s possible and happens all the time.

As I say, when you get older you get a bit more imagination and can better understand how people might find themselves in various situations and similarly might get themselves out of them.

You seem to think “terrorists” are some non-human life form born with a suicide vest on or something.

 

[shmmeee]

Although this probably wouldn't be popular and wouldn't be suitable for all but maybe one of the ways to look at it differently if more traditional rehabilitation isn't working is to question the logic of their beliefs and point out the obvious flaws and errors.

The obvious obstacle is that some would see it as 'conditioning' but IMO you're far less likely to try and kill someone over your beliefs if there's a bit of doubt in your mind about them.

I don’t know much about terrorist groups but have read some interesting pieces on people coming out of cults which seems very similar and that’s basically exactly what they do. We had started working on these programs before the Tories pulled the funding. Dom thinks it’s a terrible idea to try and reprogram terrorists for some reason.

 

[clint van damme]

She called Gerry Adams one as well - unlike Mr Corbyn who sold his book for him in the commons

she didn't have a bad word to say about Pol Pot though.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

she didn't have a bad word to say about Pol Pot though.

Loved Pinochet.

 

[Houchens Head]

In yer face, Terrorists!
.

 

[clint van damme]

Loved Pinochet.

General Suharto and the Pakistani general whose name escapes me.

 

[fellatio_Martinez]

In yer face, Terrorists!
.
View attachment 13597

This is it's own form of terrorism.

 

[Grendel]

Was Michael Collins a terrorist? Eamonn De Valera? James Connolly? Padraig Pearce?

.

Without doubt yes. I believe De Velara was spared the execution he deserved for treachery

 

[Monners]

Without doubt yes. I believe De Velara was spared the execution he deserved for treachery

You really are an obnoxious fool. Do some reading and educated yourself.

 

[Grendel]

You really are an obnoxious fool. Do some reading and educated yourself.

I have and I’m well educated in the unedifying Irish murderers who call themselves an army

Go back to your Bobby Sands poster