General Election 2019 thread (64 Viewers)

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Certainly in my lifetime. Major edges it for me because of his work that ultimately led to the GFA. Having spent a great deal of time over the years in Northern Ireland in the troubles, from the ceasefire until the GFA and the period since the GFA I really appreciate what a great piece of politics and diplomacy that was, true leadership.

Were you living or working there?

 

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[shmmeee]

Wouldn't disagree on any of that.

Your last point is an interesting one that coupled with your first point applies absolutely to the EU & being a part of it as well

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The EU absolutely has market issues.

 

[Astute]

Same in my lifetime (53 and getting older). Apart from the illegal war and Blair’s almost Thatcheresque megalomania. I thought Brown was a serious politician though. Shame John Smith didn’t get his chance.

John Smith was great fir Labour. It was because of Smith that Bliar got in.

So are you happy that good pensions were taken away from the man on the street? Our gold was sold off at a 75% discount to make the finances look better. You alsi missed out speeding up of privatisation of the NHS. And you also missed out in getting rid of social housing.

But sime seem happy because they could get a bus.

And this was from a Labour government styled on Tory principles. Even the Tories agreed with a lot if what they did.

 

[Astute]

Because it’s clear nonsense he’s been asked to say because we are in an election period. Come on, he’s so bad at this you can tell when he’s giving a line. Especially as it goes against every piece of evidence we have.

Everyone was saying before he came that he’d be told to stay well away from Boris and the NHS because he’ll do damage. lo and behold that’s what’s happened.

So explain why someone would want to take over something that doesn't make a profit. Selling things to the NHS instead of us relying on EU countries that we have been threatened with difficulties makes sense though.

 

[skybluetony176]

Were you living or working there?

It’s where my family are from. Been going my whole life. Sadly only seems to be funerals these days.

 

[Astute]

In my opinion there's a big difference between saying don't trust the current Government based on the actions of the current government and don't trust the opposition based on their past performance in government under a completely different ideology.

I agree. But that isn't what is said most of the time.

 

[Astute]

Brown is the most underrated PM we’ve ever had. Maybe second to Major.

The problem for Brown is how he cooked the books under Bliar. It has made the man on the street poorer and none of it will be recovered.

But yes that is what a cross between a Labour and Tory government is. There has to be a cost and method of payment somewhere.

 

[Grendel]

Pensions bad.

Selling off the gold bad.

Their government based on Tory ideals...depends which way you see it.

The spending on the welfare state was huge - in fact it’s the only labour administration that has outdone Tory spending

Blair was controlled by Alistair Campbell - he was a media creation and a front for Campbell

Brown was a socialist but unlike the unruly mob we now have was intelligent enough to know capitalism has to be the way forward. He’d have been a good PM but tried to adopt the spin and idiocy of his predecessor and couldn’t do the smug charm act

 

[Astute]

When was the last decent government full stop? In my lifetime I've had Heath, Wilson and Gallaghan, all of which I have no memory of.

Then it was Thatcher during my childhood. Memories of the power going off, strikes, riots etc. The economy crashing and people losing their homes due to negative equity.

Then onto Major, who seemed OK but seemed to not be Thatcher enough for the Conservatives and not different enough to Thatcher for everyone else.

Onto Blair, the less said about him the better. Brown was better but didn't really seem to be given a chance.

Cameron was basically the Conservative's Blair and equally as bad. Then the useless May and incompetent Johnson.

All in all a pretty depressing list.

Quite spot on other than the power cuts were down to Labour and not Maggie.

But there again there isn't room for what Maggie did.

 

[Astute]

The spending on the welfare state was huge - in fact it’s the only labour administration that has outdone Tory spending

Blair was controlled by Alistair Campbell - he was a media creation and a front for Campbell

Brown was a socialist but unlike the unruly mob we now have was intelligent enough to know capitalism has to be the way forward. He’d have been a good PM but tried to adopt the spin and idiocy of his predecessor and couldn’t do the smug charm act

Campbell is always given credit for something he hasn't done.

Bliar got in because of Smith. He stayed in power because they used Tory principles and were a change from Labour principles. That is what the slogan New Labour was all about.

 

[Grendel]

Campbell is always given credit for something he hasn't done.

Bliar got in because of Smith. He stayed in power because they used Tory principles and were a change from Labour principles. That is what the slogan New Labour was all about.

Blair got in because of Blair. He became an acceptable face of labour. John Smith would not have maintained a decade of Labour Rule - I couldn’t name a single thing he stood for and if you are honest neither can you

 

[Astute]

Blair got in because of Blair. He became an acceptable face of labour. John Smith would not have maintained a decade of Labour Rule - I couldn’t name a single thing he stood for and if you are honest neither can you

Bliar got in because of the work Smith did before he died. Smith would have been the next PM.

 

[Grendel]

Bliar got in because of the work Smith did before he died. Smith would have been the next PM.

What policies did Smith have that differed from Blair in any way at all?

 

[Astute]

What policies did Smith have that differed from Blair in any way at all?

You mean the policies Bliar copied from the leader before him......Smith?

 

[Grendel]

You mean the policies Bliar copied from the leader before him......Smith?

Well then Smith also was a Tory by your own argument this makes no sense

 

[Astute]

Well then Smith also was a Tory by your own argument this makes no sense

Bliar wasn't a Tory. He had Tory principles.

In the first term of office Bliar kept to what Smith set. But in his second term Bliar did change things. Look back at history. It is all there in black and white.

 

[Grendel]

Bliar wasn't a Tory. He had Tory principles.

In the first term of office Bliar kept to what Smith set. But in his second term Bliar did change things. Look back at history. It is all there in black and white.

Really? What did he actually change?

 

[Astute]

Really? What did he actually change?

So you want ti talk about what you don't know about. What a surprise.

 

[Grendel]

So you want ti talk about what you don't know about. What a surprise.

Well I don’t actually believe there was any change at all in policy from the first election to the second and was asking what you thought made it a shift to the right at that point

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

So explain why someone would want to take over something that doesn't make a profit. Selling things to the NHS instead of us relying on EU countries that we have been threatened with difficulties makes sense though.

Because if it's privatised it can be moved more to the profit angle than the service angle. As it is if people don't get the treatment they need it's the fault of the service and we have to look at how that service can be improved so it can be provided. With a more private system it's the fault of the individual for not being able to afford the treatment/insurance that covers it.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

It’s where my family are from. Been going my whole life. Sadly only seems to be funerals these days.

Fair enough. I’ve been interested in it for a while now.

 

[Monners]

Brown is the most underrated PM we’ve ever had. Maybe second to Major.

Certainly in my lifetime. Agree on both, apar

John Smith was great fir Labour. It was because of Smith that Bliar got in.

So are you happy that good pensions were taken away from the man on the street? Our gold was sold off at a 75% discount to make the finances look better. You alsi missed out speeding up of privatisation of the NHS. And you also missed out in getting rid of social housing.

But sime seem happy because they could get a bus.

And this was from a Labour government styled on Tory principles. Even the Tories agreed with a lot if what they did.

I would like an argument please! Take a day off mate.

Or go back to bed.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Blair got in because of Blair. He became an acceptable face of labour. John Smith would not have maintained a decade of Labour Rule - I couldn’t name a single thing he stood for and if you are honest neither can you

If we're being brutal, what Smith was responsible for, was the shadow budget that lost them 92.

 

[shmmeee]

The problem for Brown is how he cooked the books under Bliar. It has made the man on the street poorer and none of it will be recovered.

But yes that is what a cross between a Labour and Tory government is. There has to be a cost and method of payment somewhere.

You think far far too simply. Look before 1979, or to countries other than U.K./US.

 

[shmmeee]

So explain why someone would want to take over something that doesn't make a profit. Selling things to the NHS instead of us relying on EU countries that we have been threatened with difficulties makes sense though.

Your second para is nonsense. There’s been no threats.

As for your first. Just because something isn’t run for profit doesn’t mean you can’t profit from it. Simple example: when my school was made an academy our budget basically remained the same, the sponsor insisted we buy our paper through him, it was more expensive than our previous supplier but it made him a profit. He privatised the catering which meant the same staff came back offering smaller meals for more money. He also took over several million quids worth of land and gave several family members well paid board positions. Side note: he was then made a Tory Lord.

 

[SkyblueBazza]

What like we can’t trust Trump because he thinks it’s OK to grab women by the pussy? No wait that’s true. We can’t trust Trump because the self certified genius uses....... No wait... that’s true also. Just the 3 dots you genius. We can’t trust Trump because he said that in a trade negotiations everything is on the table even the NHS. Nope, again true. We can’t trust Trump because he tells people to go back to where they come from. Nope, also true. New York apparently. OK not the best example, let’s try Boris then. Parliament blocked his deal. No wait... Parliament passed his deal. Parliament blocked his queen speech. No wait... it didn’t. Here’s a good one. BBC presenters under the strictest control of their charter are allowed to call Boris a racist and a liar. Surely that’s got to be an imaginary scenario. What? It isn’t.

And that in a nutshell is why I don’t need to make up imaginary scenarios to discredit Boris etc. The reality is far worse than anything I could imagine.

Bloody hell Mart...oh sorry - I mean Tony...you are gibbering and frothing at the same time & not making too much sense but I get what you're saying. We can't trust Trump. Well bravo...like I keep saying...I don't trust any of them.

What I trust is that common sense prevails, & the idea of selling off the NHS is a silly thing to try to propagate. It will not happen.

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[Ian1779]

He also said he wasn't interested in the NHS even if it was handed to him on a silver platter. You seem to have missed that bit out. Don't understand why.....

You believe Trump...?

I expected better from you.

 

[Ian1779]

Here we go Labour lovers, this is what you want for our country

Disgraceful

You are actually a moron. Have you no concept that dealing with the root of the the problem will have a bigger impact overall.
You are literally another tub-thumping British Empire craving idiot.

 

[shmmeee]

Bloody hell Mart...oh sorry - I mean Tony...you are gibbering and frothing at the same time & not making too much sense but I get what you're saying. We can't trust Trump. Well bravo...like I keep saying...I don't trust any of them.

What I trust is that common sense prevails, & the idea of selling off the NHS is a silly thing to try to propagate. It will not happen.

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I’ll just leave this here.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

You believe Trump...?

I expected better from you.

Seems like Astute's in kahoots with Juncker to sell off the NHS

 

[Grendel]

I’ll just leave this here.

View attachment 13599

So a continual upward curve - your analytical ability shows no beginnings

 

[shmmeee]

Seems like Astute's in kahoots with Juncker to sell off the NHS

Just imagining an exchange between Trump and Astute...

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Just imagining an exchange between Trump and Astute...

Imagining anyone having an exchange with him in real life. England's answer to William Ulsterman

 

[shmmeee]

Thought this was lovely. Like the tweeter says trying not to sound too Corbyn culty but watch this and tell me you’ve ever heard anything close to as genuine from another party leader.



For all my issues with him. He’s clearly got his heart in the right place.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

I’ll just leave this here.

View attachment 13599

To be fair that is showing roughly the same increase over time as under Labour. Of course we can never tell if it would've continued that way had Labour stayed in power and at the time Labour was more to the right than it is now.

However one thing we can say is that this trend has not led to improvements in service at all. It is in fact worse so the advantages of doing it are very much under question.