General Election 2019 thread (21 Viewers)

[shmmeee]

To be fair that is showing roughly the same increase over time as under Labour. Of course we can never tell if it would've continued that way had Labour stayed in power and at the time Labour was more to the right than it is now.

However one thing we can say is that this trend has not led to improvements in service at all. It is in fact worse so the advantages of doing it are very much under question.

Not party political. Blair wanted privatisation too. Point is it’s already happening so the idea “they’ll never get away with it” is a little naive.

 

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[SkyblueBazza]

Do you know that the word gullible isn’t in the dictionary?

As you swallow everything Labour says...I think you should be careful throwing that kinda thing out there

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[SkyblueBazza]

No I think Trump's aides tell him to say it if he wants Alexander to win so they could potentially be on the table in the trade deal. Or he can say 'yes' or 'we're looking into that' and lose Johnson votes so it's not available to US companies.

I think the whole thing is semantics anyway. Technically 'the NHS' wouldn't be on the table. But all the services etc could be put up for tender with the US being given first dibs on them. So although 'the NHS' is still public in terms of funding and availability to all, it's all provided by private companies.

Being a largely closed system it's more liable to profiteering - all you need to ensure is that your tender is the one accepted and we've seen before that hasn't necessarily gone to the cheapest/best available. G4S continually fuck up yet get given huge swathes of govt contracts. If these companies come back and say we can't do it for the quoted price then it's either cough up or let the system fail, which would be catastrophic politically as well as for the population. If it did it would have to be taken back over by the state so once again profits are privatised, losses are nationalised and ends up costing more than if the state had just provided it in the first place.

Hmmm...so it IS a conspiracy

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[SkyblueBazza]

However one thing we can say is that this trend has not led to improvements in service at all. It is in fact worse so the advantages of doing it are very much under question.

I think you are right there. People who work for 'X' service provider are probably not the same people (even if simply moved from NHS to 'X' provider), & do not feel or have the same pride or committent to the NHS that those actually working FOR the NHS have & bring in terms of goodwill. I believe we actually lose value for money...but of course that is not measurable on a spreadsheet is it?

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[stupot07]

Boris still running scared of Andrew Neil. Let's face it, he hasn't got the bollocks to face him.

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[Brighton Sky Blue]

Boris still running scared of Andrew Neil. Let's face it, he hasn't got the bollocks to face him.

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Simple. Invite him on for Marr or some other dude then swap for Neil at the last minute and record the footage if he ducks out.

 

[chiefdave]

Simple. Invite him on for Marr or some other dude then swap for Neil at the last minute and record the footage if he ducks out.

If I was the BBC I'd have got him in the studio for the Marr interview last weekend and then said Marr's ill so we've got Neil in to cover.

 

[clint van damme]

see Dominic Raab has admitted US drug companies will be able to charge us more for drugs post Brexit but says it's unlikely they will.
Yes Dominic, big pharmacy companies in the States who have instigated an opioid epidemic which kills 70,000 a year in order to make huge profits won't get greedy will they?!

 

[skybluetony176]

see Dominic Raab has admitted US drug companies will be able to charge us more for drugs post Brexit but says it's unlikely they will.
Yes Dominic, big pharmacy companies in the States who have instigated an opioid epidemic which kills 70,000 a year in order to make huge profits won't get greedy will they?!

It’s alright we’ll only buy half as much therefore it will be the same cost.

 

[clint van damme]

It’s alright we’ll only buy half as much therefore it will be the same cost.

you couldn't make it up could you? What an absolute weapon.

 

[skybluetony176]

Boris still running scared of Andrew Neil. Let's face it, he hasn't got the bollocks to face him.

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It will avoid all the snowflakes that thought Marr gave him a hard time contacting the BBC in tears if nothing else.

 

[skybluetony176]

you couldn't make it up could you? What an absolute weapon.

It sounds like he’s one of the favourites to lose his seat so at least they’ll be getting rid of one of their Diane Abbott’s, just Boris to go.

 

[clint van damme]

It sounds like he’s one of the favourites to lose his seat so at least they’ll be getting rid of one of their Diane Abbott’s, just Boris to go.

I think even she knows how important Dover is to UK trade.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

If I was the BBC I'd have got him in the studio for the Marr interview last weekend and then said Marr's ill so we've got Neil in to cover.

That was exactly what I said they should've done

 

[Ian1779]

see Dominic Raab has admitted US drug companies will be able to charge us more for drugs post Brexit but says it's unlikely they will.
Yes Dominic, big pharmacy companies in the States who have instigated an opioid epidemic which kills 70,000 a year in order to make huge profits won't get greedy will they?!

Hold tight - CCHQ will be along soon to tell us all we’re off our tits on overpriced opioids....

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

see Dominic Raab has admitted US drug companies will be able to charge us more for drugs post Brexit but says it's unlikely they will.
Yes Dominic, big pharmacy companies in the States who have instigated an opioid epidemic which kills 70,000 a year in order to make huge profits won't get greedy will they?!

Like it was promised the Royal Mail shares wouldn't be sold immediately making a massive profit on a ridiculous low offer price?

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Hmmm...so it IS a conspiracy

I think that's a bit far. Just politics of wording something very carefully so you can get around what you actually mean.

 

[SkyblueBazza]

see Dominic Raab has admitted US drug companies will be able to charge us more for drugs post Brexit but says it's unlikely they will.
Yes Dominic, big pharmacy companies in the States who have instigated an opioid epidemic which kills 70,000 a year in order to make huge profits won't get greedy will they?!

The Pharma companies don't dish the drugs out...what you're suggesting is that Doctors are easily incorruptible.

IF they charge more for their drugs...I can guarantee you that unless their drug has a pretty significant advantage over EU or UK alternatives Medicines Optimisation squads will actively move patients OFF their expensive ones.

Then they will reduce the prices back down but it will be too late.

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[SkyblueBazza]

I think that's a bit far. Just politics of wording something very carefully so you can get around what you actually mean.

What...like...50000 new nurses you mean?


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[Astute]

Well I don’t actually believe there was any change at all in policy from the first election to the second and was asking what you thought made it a shift to the right at that point

He got elected on no tax rises. But they did stealth tax hits. People soon got wise.

Tax must rise by 4p, Blair told

 

[Astute]

Because if it's privatised it can be moved more to the profit angle than the service angle. As it is if people don't get the treatment they need it's the fault of the service and we have to look at how that service can be improved so it can be provided. With a more private system it's the fault of the individual for not being able to afford the treatment/insurance that covers it.

So they couldn't make money selling drugs to the NHS like countries in the EU do presently? As in we 'might' have a drug shortage soon?

 

[Astute]

Your second para is nonsense. There’s been no threats.

As for your first. Just because something isn’t run for profit doesn’t mean you can’t profit from it. Simple example: when my school was made an academy our budget basically remained the same, the sponsor insisted we buy our paper through him, it was more expensive than our previous supplier but it made him a profit. He privatised the catering which meant the same staff came back offering smaller meals for more money. He also took over several million quids worth of land and gave several family members well paid board positions. Side note: he was then made a Tory Lord.

No-deal Brexit could cause ‘fatal’ medicine shortages, health unions warn

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/...hin-a-fortnight-of-a-no-deal-brexit-2hbzwzsbh

How many links would you like? It was mentioned enough on here as a reason we shouldn't leave.

 

[Astute]

Not party political. Blair wanted privatisation too. Point is it’s already happening so the idea “they’ll never get away with it” is a little naive.

The problem that we have in the way the NHS has been privatised so far is it saves not paying out immediately for instance new hospitals. But we have to pay for it eventually. They build and pay. We pay for many years and they make a fortune out of us. And this style of contract comes out of the budget for the NHS.

 

[clint van damme]

The Pharma companies don't dish the drugs out...what you're suggesting is that Doctors are easily incorruptible.

IF they charge more for their drugs...I can guarantee you that unless their drug has a pretty significant advantage over EU or UK alternatives Medicines Optimisation squads will actively move patients OFF their expensive ones.

Then they will reduce the prices back down but it will be too late.

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you might want to look at Purdues sales and marketing strategy in the States and how they pushed oxycontin.
I'm not saying that would happen here but they never would have succeeded without corrupt doctors, (and some naïve ones as well) in the US.

 

[shmmeee]

No-deal Brexit could cause ‘fatal’ medicine shortages, health unions warn

Drugs ‘to run short within a fortnight’ of a no-deal Brexit

How many links would you like? It was mentioned enough on here as a reason we shouldn't leave.

Those aren’t threats...

Those are articles pointing out that if we no deal and disrupt supply chains we don’t have stockpiles to see us through. It’s not the EU threatening us.

 

[shmmeee]

The problem that we have in the way the NHS has been privatised so far is it saves not paying out immediately for instance new hospitals. But we have to pay for it eventually. They build and pay. We pay for many years and they make a fortune out of us. And this style of contract comes out of the budget for the NHS.

PFI was a result of trying to do proper government on neoliberal ideals. It was a terrible idea. What Blair proved is the Thatcherite way of running the economy can’t provide public services or improvements in QoL or the economy. It always leads to a crash because it’s unsustainable.

Which is why we need Corbyn

 

[shmmeee]

Something to bring the thread together.

 

[Ian1779]

Something to bring the thread together.

View attachment 13605

I see Chuka is positioning himself to take over the Lib Dems - such a whore.

 

[rob9872]

XR targeting all parties and have glued themselves to the UnLib-UnDem's so far. Nothing but trouble-makers, arrest them all and keep arresting them with longer sentences for repeat offenders.

 

[shmmeee]

XR targeting all parties and have glued themselves to the UnLib-UnDem's so far. Nothing but trouble-makers, arrest them all and keep arresting them with longer sentences for repeat offenders.

Eh?

How about no? You want to arrest me for attending a meeting? Why?

Also, arrestables are trying to get arrested, not sure you’ve thought this through.

 

[Philosoraptor]

And the disaster zone starts again.

Will someone pop a question in to a hustings about what they would do about bullying in the workplace.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Never been exit-polled before because Cov has been such safe seats but reckon there might a few knocking about in Cov S and NW this time round.

 

[Philosoraptor]

I think it's going to come down to a simple equation.

It was mentioned earlier on it he thread but I just let it go then.

Tory remainers and Labour leavers.

These are the one that are most likely to switch to another party or not vote at all.

It was pointed out that Tory remainers are the most likely to stay with their own party. I think there is another reason more logical conclusion that all of the groups respect the result of the EU referendum.

I can only see one group moving with enough clout to affect the GE and that is Labour leave voters moving to other camps or not vote at all.

 

[shmmeee]

And the disaster zone starts again.

Will someone pop a question in to a hustings about what they would do about bullying in the workplace.

TBF blocking anonymous abusive twitter accounts is pretty standard. Same goes for that “Cov Road Safety” weirdo.

Sort of people that write letters in green pen.

If you want politicians to take you seriously on social media use your real name.

The Kings Hill lot are nutters. All over my local FB group as well turning red and waffling about bollocks.

 

[shmmeee]

I think it's going to come down to a simple equation.

It was mentioned earlier on it he thread but I just let it go then.

Tory remainers and Labour leavers.

These are the one that are most likely to switch to another party or not vote at all.

It was pointed out that Tory remainers are the most likely to stay with their own party. I think there is another reason more logical conclusion that all of the groups respect the result of the EU referendum.

I can only see one group moving with enough clout to affect the GE and that is Labour leave voters moving to other camps or not vote at all.

I think most of the recent movement has been Labour remainers actually. The gains have generally been at the expense of the LDs