Mark Robins (8 Viewers)

[Ring Of Steel]

So let me get this right if by some miracle we finish 8th in the Championship next season then you think finishing 6th in League 2 would be a better achievement because we got promoted?

We may as well just stay in League One then as I don’t think we’re getting promoted into the Premier League anytime soon

Which would be harder, to totally and completely revamp a club who were at the lowest point in their entire history with zero unity on or off the field, or finishing off the job you started 3 years ago by slotting in a few more players in backed by a unified& revitalised support?

And we can only be successful in the Championship by winning a trophy or getting promoted?

Robins has his work cut out then as I don’t think that’s very likely

No you clearly don't, and your views on Robins are crystal clear.

 

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[Ring Of Steel]

I have. I’ve listed about 6

5 if you exclude Sam Allardyce.

 

[SlowerThanPlatt]

Which would be harder, to totally and completely revamp a club who were at the lowest point in their entire history with zero unity on or off the field, or finishing off the job you started 3 years ago by slotting in a few more players b


No you clearly don't, and your views on Robins are crystal clear.

Hmm okay it’s just you said finishing 8th you don’t get a trophy - indicating the only way of success in the Championship is to get promoted

 

[Liquid Gold]

Why don't you tell me, seeing as the naysayers are point blank refusing to actually name a manager who has done more for our club than Mark Robins apart from 'the big two'. Question stands- if we went up this year tell me three managers who would have achieved more bearing in mind the circumstances.

I'm trying to say that we can think Mark Robins is a brilliant manager for us, which he is, and not want him replaced by anybody, which I don't, without having to think the sun shines out of his arse, that he hasn't had benefits that other managers have had and that he doesn't have his faults.

You're the other side of the coin to the idiots suggesting we chuck him after a couple of bad results. We can appreciate him without having to go overboard about everything and be objective about his achievements.

 

[clint van damme]

They don't give them out for finishing 8th in league one but I thought that was a good achievement by robin's and the team in our first season back.
Would you have preferred a relegation and a Checkatrade win?

 

[Ring Of Steel]

Not necessarily but it does at least take us back to the actual discussion on stats.

If you look coldly at stats of managers across divisions you’d look at someone like Gordon Milne and he looks average

Reality is he kept the club in the top flight against the odds season after season and gave the club its most exciting season in my memory

He couldn’t get promoted, couldn’t win a cup where only lower league teams played or get a Wembley appearance in a play off as he was too good to manage a team at that level

77/78 was exciting, yes. I have Milne up there but I would give the nod to Robins if we go up again purely due to the degree of tranformation at a dying club, taking over from Slade whereas Milne took over a pretty stable club & team from Joe Mercer.

 

[Skyblueweeman]

Not necessarily but it does at least take us back to the actual discussion on stats.

If you look coldly at stats of managers across divisions you’d look at someone like Gordon Milne and he looks average

Reality is he kept the club in the top flight against the odds season after season and gave the club its most exciting season in my memory

He couldn’t get promoted, couldn’t win a cup where only lower league teams played or get a Wembley appearance in a play off as he was too good to manage a team at that level

Stats are like a bikini.

They don't show you everything you want to see.

 

[Ring Of Steel]

I'm trying to say that we can think Mark Robins is a brilliant manager for us, which he is, and not want him replaced by anybody, which I don't, without having to think the sun shines out of his arse, that he hasn't had benefits that other managers have had and that he doesn't have his faults.

You're the other side of the coin to the idiots suggesting we chuck him after a couple of bad results. We can appreciate him without having to go overboard about everything and be objective about his achievements.

I am being objective- if we went up he is in the top three managers of all time. I can live with top 5 maybe if you want to go down the Milne/ Storer route, but the sheer transformation of the club is what gives it to Robins for me.

 

[Ring Of Steel]

They don't give them out for finishing 8th in league one but I thought that was a good achievement by robin's and the team in our first season back.
Would you have preferred a relegation and a Checkatrade win?

No, but that had nothing to do with Mark Robins, did it? What has that got to do with it?

 

[Liquid Gold]

I am being objective- if we went up he is in the top three managers of all time. I can live with top 5 maybe if you want to go down the Milne/ Storer route, but the sheer transformation of the club is what gives it to Robins for me.

You can't be objective on a personal preference thing, it's the definition of subjective.

 

[SlowerThanPlatt]

No, but that had nothing to do with Mark Robins, did it? What has that got to do with it?

You attributed the Checkatrade win to him before

 

[Ring Of Steel]

I'm trying to say that we can think Mark Robins is a brilliant manager for us, which he is, and not want him replaced by anybody, which I don't, without having to think the sun shines out of his arse, that he hasn't had benefits that other managers have had and that he doesn't have his faults.

You're the other side of the coin to the idiots suggesting we chuck him after a couple of bad results. We can appreciate him without having to go overboard about everything and be objective about his achievements.

I'm trying to say that we can think Mark Robins is a brilliant manager for us, which he is, and not want him replaced by anybody, which I don't, without having to think the sun shines out of his arse, that he hasn't had benefits that other managers have had and that he doesn't have his faults.

You're the other side of the coin to the idiots suggesting we chuck him after a couple of bad results. We can appreciate him without having to go overboard about everything and be objective about his achievements.

Thats fascinating. However take that scenario- we go up this year whether is automatic or a playoff win- whatever. Who do you then put above Robins in the hierarchy of managers who've done the most for us? Name names, stop with the rhetoric.

 

[Ring Of Steel]

You can't be objective on a personal preference thing, it's the definition of subjective.

Whereas I think even you would have to agree that promotions & cups are very objective, and Robins would have more of those than virtually all our other managers, ever.

Is there any other definition you want to try and throw out there as a deflection from the hard facts?

 

[shmmeee]

Not necessarily but it does at least take us back to the actual discussion on stats.

If you look coldly at stats of managers across divisions you’d look at someone like Gordon Milne and he looks average

Reality is he kept the club in the top flight against the odds season after season and gave the club its most exciting season in my memory

He couldn’t get promoted, couldn’t win a cup where only lower league teams played or get a Wembley appearance in a play off as he was too good to manage a team at that level

I think you’re agreeing with me TBH. It’s quite a complex and subjective discussion that takes into account relative success, board support, club circumstances, and fan expectations.

Which is why I don’t think any of these single data points help in what is a multivariate analysis.

 

[Liquid Gold]

Thats fascinating. However take that scenario- we go up this year whether is automatic or a playoff win- whatever. Who do you then put above Robins in the hierarchy of managers who've done the most for us? Name names, stop with the rhetoric.

I haven't got a wall chart of #1 managers. I'm not a child. He'll have done a very good job, which he is doing. Why do you need to try and quantify it?

 

[Liquid Gold]

Whereas I think even you would have to agree that promotions & cups are very objective, and Robins would have more of those than virtually all our other managers, ever.

Is there any other definition you want to try and throw out there as a deflection from the hard facts?

But they're not, as this thread has been going round in circles about, some think lower league promotions and FL Trophy is better than treading water in the premier league is better, others think completely the opposite. It's subjective.

 

[Ring Of Steel]

I haven't got a wall chart of #1 managers. I'm not a child. He'll have done a very good job, which he is doing. Why do you need to try and quantify it?

I don't, its there for all to see all nicely quantified already for everyone.

But ok, whatever- you refuse to acknowledge what Robins is doing and that he is at the helm of the biggest transformation of our club since Jimmy Hill turned up to watch us lose to Kings Lynn. Bit strange and I don't know what animosity towards Robins is fuelling it, but away you go with it.

 

[Ring Of Steel]

But they're not, as this thread has been going round in circles about, some think lower league promotions and FL Trophy is better than treading water in the premier league is better, others think completely the opposite. It's subjective.

Promotions are not subjective.

 

[SlowerThanPlatt]

It is an interesting discussion. For example, do you put McNulty above Dion Dublin because in his season for us he scored more goals and was vital in promotion albeit 3 divisions below?

 

[clint van damme]

This is a terrible methodology. I could fluke my way into a Premiership job, lose every game, finish bottom and according to you I’d be a better manager than 72 others in the EFL.

I dont know about terrible but its flawed, definitely.
There has to be some measure and league position is about as good as it gets.

There are so many other intangibles,spend, inherited youth set up, coaching staff, that you can argue about all day without really proving anything.

There's also personal preference, a lot of people would take Warnock like a shot if we got to the Championship given his record of promotions, personally I wouldn't based purely on the style of football.

 

[Liquid Gold]

Promotions are not subjective.

But how you value them above lesser achievements further up the pyramid is.

 

[SlowerThanPlatt]

But how you value them above lesser achievements further up the pyramid is.

I imagine his CCFC all time 11 has Lee Burge in goal as he has 2 Wembley wins which trumps mid table in the Premier League

 

[clint van damme]

No, but that had nothing to do with Mark Robins, did it? What has that got to do with it?

You just said you could argue he won the Checkatrade. Would you prefer relegation and a trophy or 8th in league one which you get fuck all for?

 

[Liquid Gold]

Mark Robins is a brilliant manager for us, which he is, and not want him replaced by anybody, which I don't

you refuse to acknowledge what Robins is doing... I don't know what animosity towards Robins is fuelling it

 

[Ring Of Steel]

But how you value them above lesser achievements further up the pyramid is.

There was no achievement further up the pyramid. 20+ points off 6th place in a season when Reading got 106 points and the all the promotion & playoff places were decided a fortnight before the end of the season is meaningless.

You just said you could argue he won the Checkatrade. Would you prefer relegation and a trophy or 8th in league one which you get fuck all for?

If you can explain to me what the hell this has to do with why you are unwilling to admit you're wrong and that Mark Robins is doing more for this club than Micky Adams ever did, I'll conjure up some kind of answer. But you'll be hard pushed I suspect.

 

[clint van damme]

There was no achievement further up the pyramid. 20+ points off 6th place in a season when Reading got 106 points and the all the promotion & playoff places were decided a fortnight before the end of the season is meaningless.


If you can explain to me what the hell this has to do with why you are unwilling to admit you're wrong and that Mark Robins is doing more for this club than Micky Adams ever did, I'll conjure up some kind of answer. But you'll be hard pushed I suspect.

What am I wrong about.
Ive consistently praised Robins.
I've never said Adams did more for the club than Robins.
Are you purposely making things up or is it the voices in your head?

 

[SlowerThanPlatt]

There was no achievement further up the pyramid. 20+ points off 6th place in a season when Reading got 106 points and the all the promotion & playoff places were decided a fortnight before the end of the season is meaningless.


If you can explain to me what the hell this has to do with why you are unwilling to admit you're wrong and that Mark Robins is doing more for this club than Micky Adams ever did, I'll conjure up some kind of answer. But you'll be hard pushed I suspect.

If you were deciding your CCFC best 11 of all time - if it’s not the 2017/18 side I guess it would include the likes of Dublin and Regis?

 

[shmmeee]

I dont know about terrible but its flawed, definitely.
There has to be some measure and league position is about as good as it gets.

There are so many other intangibles,spend, inherited youth set up, coaching staff, that you can argue about all day without really proving anything.

There's also personal preference, a lot of people would take Warnock like a shot if we got to the Championship given his record of promotions, personally I wouldn't based purely on the style of football.

See my other reply to Grendel. It’s a multifaceted metric and any singular data point will fall short.

In other words this whole thread is pointless. Entertaining. But pointless.

 

[Ring Of Steel]

What am I wrong about.
Ive consistently praised Robins.
I've never said Adams did more for the club than Robins.
Are you purposely making things up or is it the voices in your head?

If you were deciding your CCFC best 11 of all time - if it’s not the 2017/18 side I guess it would include the likes of Dublin and Regis?

I do not know, and I also am not sure what that has to do with Mark Robins, aside from you continuing to try and downplay what Mark Robins has done & is doing. And what weird examples- an FA Cup Winner and someone who achieved full international honours while with us.

 

[Liquid Gold]

See my other reply to Grendel. It’s a multifaceted metric and any singular data point will fall short.

In other words this whole thread is pointless. Entertaining. But pointless.

I think all but one person knows that.

 

[Ring Of Steel]

See my other reply to Grendel. It’s a multifaceted metric and any singular data point will fall short.

In other words this whole thread is pointless. Entertaining. But pointless.

If people just saw sense and agreed with me we could all get on with our day & talk about Stephen Pressley's stellar time with us.

 

[Grendel]

77/78 was exciting, yes. I have Milne up there but I would give the nod to Robins if we go up again purely due to the degree of tranformation at a dying club, taking over from Slade whereas Milne took over a pretty stable club & team from Joe Mercer.

We weren’t a dying club - the season in league two as I’ve already explained and now has been shown was a lot easier as we were competitive

 

[SlowerThanPlatt]

I do not know, and I also am not sure what that has to do with Mark Robins, aside from you continuing to try and downplay what Mark Robins has done & is doing. And what weird examples- an FA Cup Winner and someone who achieved full international honours while with us.

But the international never won a trophy with us or got promoted? I believe this is what you’ve said makes a good manager

 

[SlowerThanPlatt]

If people just saw sense and agreed with me we could all get on with our day & talk about Stephen Pressley's stellar time with us.

I don’t think a football forums the right place for you then if you want everyone to agree with you

 

[Ring Of Steel]

We weren’t a dying club - the season in league two as I’ve already explained and now has been shown was a lot easier as we were competitive

The day that Mark Robins came back was the start of the upswing. 23rd in League One under Russell Slade was the nadir. Never before has there been so much apathy, such a disconnect between club & fans and such constant garbage shown on the pitch week after week.