shmmeee
Well-Known Member
And who do you see as the PLP winning? The membership have the final say on the leader. Whoever wins it’s the memberships choice.
New Labour Leader (23 Viewers)
- Thread starter shmmeee
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And who do you see as the PLP winning? The membership have the final say on the leader. Whoever wins it’s the memberships choice.
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
Dare I say that the Tory method of choosing the leader is a bit more effective?
Ian1779
Well-Known Member
That’s true - but the membership got their choice the last 2 times and it didn’t stop a sizeable portion of people within the PLP actively undermining the leader both in 2017 and 2019. We can’t carry on like this or we won’t ever be able to unite. You only have to look at the ‘justification’ behind the attempt at ousting Corbyn in 2016.... he didnt campaign enough for Remain when actually his campaign presence/appearance was larger than most people that were on ‘Team Remain’
I suspect that the 2 highest performing candidates with the membership will be RLB and Starmer because their values still reflect the nature of the manifesto direction. If RLB wins for example Labour don’t perform well at local elections in May will they turn on her straight away? If Starmer wins and they don’t perform will it be because he’s an out of touch Londoner that doesn’t understand the ‘Labour heartlands’?
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
Boris Johnson couldn’t have less in common with ordinary people if he tried but he’s a master charlatan and bullshitter. Let’s be honest about it and go for the equivalent.
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
It’s been changed to try and get more Corbynite people onto the ballot, but basically there’s two nomination stages then a final ballot.
First you need 5% of the MPs/MEPs to nominate you, about 22 at the moment. Phillips, Starmer, Nandy, RLB and Thornberry managed that.
Then (this is the new bit) you need either a certain percentage of affiliates group like unions and socialist societies (based on size of membership so Unite means more than the Musicians Union or whatever) OR a certain percentage of CLPs to nominate you. This is the stage we are currently in. RLB will get Momentumite CLPs and left wing unions like Unite and Food Workers begins her for that. Phillips realises she was too right wing for the unions and too disliked by members and dropped out. Currently Starmer and Nandy are through on affiliate nominations alone, RLB will probably make it too, question marks over Thornberry.
Then it’s a vote by members with alternative vote so members rank their options, if no one gets over 50% they are eliminated and their second options redistributed. Repeat until someone’s over 50%.
Polling is suggesting it’s Starmer by a mile. RLB got lots of Momentumite first preferences but you need the soft left like Corbyn had and they don’t seem to be taking to her. As you say she’s pretty unimpressive and the wider field is more palatable to the soft left than it was when Corbyn won.
tisza
Well-Known Member
Ordinary people don't want/expect to have something in common with the leaders of political parties. They look for someone who seems to have a clear message and then they decide whether they can implement that message.
Johnson can "get away" with the bluster for now but will still get judged on results once things settle down. Do people really know what Johnson's policies on a lot of issues are? - many seemed to be made on the hoof. Throw big numbers at an issue - xxx thousand of new nurses or policemen and everything will be better!!
Local elections will be an interesting litmus test when the focus is back on domestic issues.
Who is the Labour "equivalent" of Johnson?
Grendel
Well-Known Member
Has Mcloskey and unite declared its choice yet?
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
Its likely to be RLB, but I’m holding out hope there’s an outbreak of sense and they pull a surprise.
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
I was thinking about this and I think the best thing would be a think tank to create and test policy ideas that the Labour Party can draw upon. the Party needs to be an election winning machine focused on voters IMO, and a lot of members (not just Momentum) get more excited by big ideas that scare voters at first.
tisza
Well-Known Member
Problem with labour is how they draw up a think tank that isn't heavily influenced by 1 particular "faction".
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
Just have lots of them, one for each faction. Then the party picks and chooses when it needs policy ideas.
Ian1779
Well-Known Member
You could argue that Labour First and Progress should do the same thing. At least Momentum brought with them an organised and effective campaigning machine - the other 2 had nothing like this.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
Yes an organised campaign that appealed to very few people
Ian1779
Well-Known Member
Actually it did well where it campaigned - but was not diverse or wide ranging enough.
W
westcountry_skyblue
Guest
I want to vote labour again so it must be Lisa Nandy or Kier Starmer.
RLB is just a diluted Corbyn,Who cannot see the worst defeat since 1935? Momentum need getting rid of period!!
RLB is just a diluted Corbyn,Who cannot see the worst defeat since 1935? Momentum need getting rid of period!!
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
What effect did it have?
Ian1779
Well-Known Member
Certainly not the effect it had in 2017. In my opinion this is because it was too London focused and too Remain focused. Maybe the infrastructure isn’t there outside of the big city areas.
That said - Momentum have as much right to be a part of the Labour family as any other organisation or group. Not sure why the dismissal of them.
Ian1779
Well-Known Member
Exacerbated by the Brexit issue. It’s not a comparable measure.
Sick Boy
Super Moderator
Period?
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
Equally supported by Brexit. Labour got a lot of Remain votes it otherwise wouldn’t have.
We need to listen to what people are telling us dude. Corbyns changed the party for the better in many ways, we have a large membership as you say and the current slate is more left than any I can remember but in many other ways he was a disaster and it’s time to move on.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
Not really. Brexit was a key part of the election and as usual labour blundered their strategy
Labour other than under Blair have seemed incapable of running an election strategy. Tories with the exception of 2017 are pretty good at it
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
Was having this chat with a guy at CLP last night. The Tories are an election winning machine and no less focused on their ideological goals for it. We could learn a lot from them.
tisza
Well-Known Member
Wasn't momentum set up to be this electoral winning machine? Where it has got lost (made electorate nervous) is becoming its own political group within the Labour Party. Ultimately going to need rebranding because of its association with Corbynism.
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
Momentum is a campaigning and activist organisation. Not the same thing. Winning elections is about a lot more than ground game.
agreed and having the ability to flex your ideology to suit the wider population...something momentum appear unwilling to do. I’d go even further and suggest their ‘if you don’t agree with us you’re Tory scum’ might’ve actually put a few people off as well !
SkyBlueDom26
Well-Known Member
Momentum killed the Labour party and im sure most decent labour supporters would agree with me on that, prove me wrong lol
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
It’s so frustrating. Was at a meeting last night where someone said “the most important people are the membership” I wanted to scream at him. I didn’t join the party to help make a bunch of middle class graduates lives slightly easier!
Ian1779
Well-Known Member
The thing is I don’t disagree on reflection. He has set a narrative and one that we should build on with a new leader. But I worry we lose the good things and slip back to being a party ambivalent on austerity.
Ian1779
Well-Known Member
The Labour Party became lost in 2010.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
Most of the country is ambivalent so there is your first problem
Ian1779
Well-Known Member
To be fair - irrespective of their agendas and splits, come election time they unite behind a single voice. Labour couldn’t follow suit.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
Labour are a party controlled by its members and the unions. It’s a huge problem
The Tories are far more realistic that members are not vital at all
Often labour supporters quote policies that are popular but they are labour policies so it’s the media. No it’s because they never ask the questions in context of an election. So a policy of removing food banks in 5 years will be popular. Unless you experience this hardship though it will have zero influence on how you vote.
Most people engage in politics for a few weeks at election time and that’s it. They aren’t interested in think tanks, policy detail, coatings - it’s a quick sharp slogan and a unification message
Until labour realise this they are dead