Grendel
Well-Known Member
Maximum of £7m I’d have thought and even then players would have to agree relegation clauses in their contracts
Have we just become a “Selling Club” or have we always been one? (13 Viewers)
- Thread starter Feb57
- Start date
Maximum of £7m I’d have thought and even then players would have to agree relegation clauses in their contracts
Razzle Dazzle Dean Gordon
Well-Known Member
We've always been a selling club and always will be, what i think we have improved at recently is getting better deals for those we have sold (although this could just be that we've been selling better players i suppose). Any sane fan knows that 99% of clubs have to sell up the pyramid, we sold Babb, Dublin, Boateng in PL and we continue to sell players now (Julian Gray for example). So long as we are getting good fees for people i dont see how fans can realistically complain.
Gibbo
Well-Known Member
Fed up with this subject. Every club, even Liverpool sells. The big Italian clubs sell all the time. We are in Tier 3 - by definition we are a selling club.
The only question is not whether you are or not a selling club, but whether you are any good at it. The better we become as a selling club the more likely we are to generate the cash to improve the team. The whole point about the Bayliss and McCallum sales was that the purchaser was paying for potential, NOT what they can contribute from day 1. Both Preston and Norwich have an eye on the sell on as they are selling clubs too.
Six of Saturday's team were out of contract - Mariosi, Rose, Allen, McF, Dabo and Kelly. This was the thing we got most wrong last year - Ogogo and Brown, and is the key measure of just how good our management team are, or are not. Not whether we are selling or not. McCallum is just one player who has just contributed to the wages of the other six.
The only question is not whether you are or not a selling club, but whether you are any good at it. The better we become as a selling club the more likely we are to generate the cash to improve the team. The whole point about the Bayliss and McCallum sales was that the purchaser was paying for potential, NOT what they can contribute from day 1. Both Preston and Norwich have an eye on the sell on as they are selling clubs too.
Six of Saturday's team were out of contract - Mariosi, Rose, Allen, McF, Dabo and Kelly. This was the thing we got most wrong last year - Ogogo and Brown, and is the key measure of just how good our management team are, or are not. Not whether we are selling or not. McCallum is just one player who has just contributed to the wages of the other six.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
We are selling not to improve the team but just to fund a basic squad
tisza
Well-Known Member
All clubs outside the top 4 or 5 are selling clubs. Even the PL "smaller" clubs get cherry picked by the big ones.
Even if we go up we'll be needing to try and sell a couple of players to finance a season in the Championship ( wages aren't going to stay at L1 levels)
Average wage bill for the 2017/18 season was 34m. The range was about 10m to 73m.
Only 2 clubs had an operating profit whist total operating losses were 361m.
Seen people refer to Preston but they are backed by Hemmings who's another "billionaire" owner.
Even if we go up we'll be needing to try and sell a couple of players to finance a season in the Championship ( wages aren't going to stay at L1 levels)
Average wage bill for the 2017/18 season was 34m. The range was about 10m to 73m.
Only 2 clubs had an operating profit whist total operating losses were 361m.
Seen people refer to Preston but they are backed by Hemmings who's another "billionaire" owner.
Gibbo
Well-Known Member
That is my point.....
The cash from a good sale funds the wages for x players acquired for no fee, who add a lot more cumulatively than the departing single star player. Only Godden (and Baka?) cost something. The job of the management is to be smart with the out of contract players - as there are loads of them - by persuading them that City have future, and funding it in part with periodic good sales. Then coaching them and organizing them to maximize on their abilities. Big transfers are a small part of the job.
Thus far under Robins Willis is the only player we have "lost" because they were out of contract and whom we might have preferred to stay. That is much more important in the global scheme of things than McCallum or Bayliss or McNulty or Chaplin. Despite the "loss" of three of those, we sit 5th. Mind you McNulty might have been handy.
Ring Of Steel
Well-Known Member
Dion Dublin
Darren Huckerby
Robbie Keane
Ian Wallace
Dennis Mortimer
You can trace it back decades, it started as soon as money came more into the game, it was always the same and always will be the same, for us and everybody else.
I would say that the question is not "have we become a selling club", it is "are our expectations wrong?"
Moreso than ever in this day and age, any club apart from a select few is going to be structured by buying for less and selling high, bringing youth through, spotting talent and making sure the conveyor belt is running at all times for when players go.
It is wrong to be disappointed and sad when big players go, it should be accepted and taken as a sign we're doing things right- the anger & disappointment should be reserved for if we don't discover a replacement or the replacement doesn't work- thats the cause for concern because it would show our model is not working. If we sell big we're doing something right- long as the new faces coming through allow us to keep making progress.
Sounds intuitively wrong, but we shouldn't be upset when players leave, we should actually be ok with it and the focus should be the 'conveyor belt'.
Skyblueweeman
Well-Known Member
I think you've just plagiarised post #6 mate ;-)
Ring Of Steel
Well-Known Member
We "lost" those players yet we're higher up the league and going well, our model is working.
We are asking the wrong questions- we need to accept that players will go and focus attention on the replacements, thats where our future is, hungry & ambitious players -not desperately hoping that we cling onto players who know they can earn x2 elsewhere.
Its the wrong way to assess how we're doing as a club- we need to buy low/ delevop and sell high, and keep a highly efficient conveyor belt. That brings success and money, as opposed to getting depressed when a player leaves.
SkyBlueScottie
Well-Known Member
Ref the timing of this sale, what could we do different? The agent told Robins in September the plan was to move him on. That would have happened whether he was playing 1st team or not. Had we kept him in the U23's the scouts would visited there and picked him up for a lower price.
eastwoodsdustman
Well-Known Member
Whoops! Great minds Eh
On a positive note we seem to have a good scouting system of our summer signings only Kasteneer has so far failed to deliver, all the players brought in have good technical ability, will be lnteresting what this summers batch will be like. We have players like Wakefield and Walters yet to feature and I know left back Joe Newton is well rated.
SlowerThanPlatt
Well-Known Member
Wakefield and Walters are both likely to be released
D
Deleted member 5849
Guest
I've got no problem with selling players to grow the club. I accept some of the fees will go into keeping the club running. What's galling is that more of the latter is happening than should. That also stops the former from happening as effectively as it could.
Fergusons_Beard
Well-Known Member
Trouble with football is it’s difficult to take out the emotion and make a strictly business decision.
The best model is to buy players with obvious talent (or future ability) and buy them for a lot less than market value.
Then find a club willing to buy the same player for a lot more than they are worth (or potentially worth).
That way the club makes a load of money confident that they have systems in place to recruit replacements that are the same or better.
Trouble happens when your replacements are not very good and you sell players leaving your team a lot weaker.
I have no problem selling McCallum as we already have a like for like replacement in Mason. We bought him for peanuts and sold him for Millions. We have things in place that guarantee further money should the player be sold etc.
All the noises suggest that our recruitment will happen during the summer-if the McCallum money means we can get a more high calibre replacement then the transfer is a good one.
Chris Badlam and co have been much better one good argue than Widdrington and I have every faith that our analysis and scouting have already unearthed more gems to add to our already talented team.
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The best model is to buy players with obvious talent (or future ability) and buy them for a lot less than market value.
Then find a club willing to buy the same player for a lot more than they are worth (or potentially worth).
That way the club makes a load of money confident that they have systems in place to recruit replacements that are the same or better.
Trouble happens when your replacements are not very good and you sell players leaving your team a lot weaker.
I have no problem selling McCallum as we already have a like for like replacement in Mason. We bought him for peanuts and sold him for Millions. We have things in place that guarantee further money should the player be sold etc.
All the noises suggest that our recruitment will happen during the summer-if the McCallum money means we can get a more high calibre replacement then the transfer is a good one.
Chris Badlam and co have been much better one good argue than Widdrington and I have every faith that our analysis and scouting have already unearthed more gems to add to our already talented team.
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SlowerThanPlatt
Well-Known Member
McCallum was scouted through the V9 academy event rather than actually being scouted through his club
It’s not running this year as there’s lack of funding for it apparently
Ring Of Steel
Well-Known Member
I blame Rebekah Vardy for that.
Nick
Administrator
SkyBlueDom26
Well-Known Member
Lack of funding you say? Hows Vardy not going to help fund the academy when hes on over 100k a week lol
mrtrench
Well-Known Member
We bought players too. Does that mean we are a buying club? We also trained some in the academy, so that makes us a training club.
So for completeness, we are a buying, training and selling club. This makes us different to every other club in the world in a way that I dont see able to articulate.
So for completeness, we are a buying, training and selling club. This makes us different to every other club in the world in a way that I dont see able to articulate.
SkyBlueDom26
Well-Known Member
Should contact Mr Heavy pockets Icky ickman, he'd be able to sort the funding out
Sky Blue Harry H
Well-Known Member
Just read that Mortimer's gone to Villa - I really hate Sepalla! (just glanced back through the thread - sorry Ring of Steel!)
Sky Blue Harry H
Well-Known Member
8 messages in 6 and a half years - but at least you make sure they're a long one (or are you just very slow at typing?) !!
GaryJones
Well-Known Member
I remember the day we sold Dennis Mortimer to Aston Villa - it was my first season following the Sky Blues 74/75 and I cried my eyes out! Couldnt understand why we just sold our best player - only thing that has changed now is I dont cry anymore!
Sky Blue Harry H
Well-Known Member
I was making my way back home from school in Leamington, and remember seeing it as a CET heading outside the paper shop about him going. First time I remember being gutted/stunned by anything to do with a player leaving.
lifeskyblue
Well-Known Member
Of course we are a selling club; currently L1 and cash strapped. We have some assets and bigger fish are bound to come calling. The secret is to maximise the return on the players we are forced to sell and try and ensure they move up the football ladder so that bigger clubs know we develop/nurture talent and our assets are worth investing in.
Norwich are a bigger club than us at the minute (and they are reasonably well run)...next season with the parachute payments and decent investment they are likely to be challenging for an immediate return to the PL. we on the other hand, even with sound investment and a few shrewd buys are at best likely to finish mid table in my opinion. Therefore Norwich are not really our rivals...I would have been far less happy to see Sam go to brum or Wigan etc...the level of club we will have to finish above next year (assuming promotion
) if we are not to return back to this division.
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Norwich are a bigger club than us at the minute (and they are reasonably well run)...next season with the parachute payments and decent investment they are likely to be challenging for an immediate return to the PL. we on the other hand, even with sound investment and a few shrewd buys are at best likely to finish mid table in my opinion. Therefore Norwich are not really our rivals...I would have been far less happy to see Sam go to brum or Wigan etc...the level of club we will have to finish above next year (assuming promotion
) if we are not to return back to this division. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
tisza
Well-Known Member
Hutch to Man City. Cried, couldn't understand.
He'd been an ever-present in my City "career". Had no idea at the time that he was 34 and supposed to be winding down (although he was still playing for Swansea 10 years later).
Ring Of Steel
Well-Known Member
I can't say anyone leaving really 'upset' me, but I was sad when Bennett, Houchen, Sedgeley & Phillips all left in within a few months of each other in 1989, as I thought it had that "end of an era" feel about it. Similarly when Butcher started trying to bomb out Peake, Kilcline & Regis, it just felt all wrong. I guess Hartson was the worst I felt about someone leaving, as we'd just gone down and he was going to be our figurehead in The Championship or whatever it was called in 2001, he made those statements about not leaving even if Man Utd came in... then he was gone soon after.
I think Dublin leaving was the biggest immediate shock to the system, the whole club seemed to be rattled & we promptly went to Luton (same day I think?) and put in an absolutely dismal performance & lost 2-0. Probably biggest impact was losing McAllister, Whelan & Keane all in one summer.
I just think that we have to always look forward- thats how its going to be- we'll always rely on smart recruiting as opposed to big name recruiting, and we need to get behind the new players instead of spending days mourning & deliberating the departures & the rights & wrongs of whether they should have gone.
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Fergusons_Beard
Well-Known Member
Agreed but we were there and we saw enough in him to buy .
Obviously he’s made rapid improvements as was originally part of U23 and back up to Mason.
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robbiethemole
Well-Known Member
you should be in "the office" hahaha
robbiethemole
Well-Known Member
Just had a quick look and in 2018, promotion to the Championship was estimated to be worth around £6.7m, then tv rights are higher, £100k for Friday, £120k for Saturday and £140k for Thursday games. Plus added on increased tickets sales and merchandise and increased away support, so will it be worth going for promotion?? absofuckinglutely. PUSB
Manchester_sky_blue
Well-Known Member
All clubs are selling clubs, it's only the number of zeros that varies.
At least we are developing home grown players through the academy and into the first team.
At least we are developing home grown players through the academy and into the first team.
Johhny Blue
Well-Known Member
Surprised to see John Tudor on the list. In the pre internet days he received a lot of stick from the fans