Meeting with Joy Seppala & Dave Boddy - Thursday 27th February 2020 (9 Viewers)

[Ring Of Steel]

Nobody is getting lairy for calling SISU to account, in fact it's being applauded because Mark and Pete have started doing that directly to them.

They are far from "SISU Lovers" and have gone about things the right way, as I said Pete has been at sit ins shouting SISU out and has hassled councillors and tried to get Wasps to talk to him.

Nobody disagrees that IF (thats a massive if) there is a new stadium then it needs to be our home and not something shit. Reading this thread most don't think there will be a new stadium at all and after reading Pete's posts over the years and seeing what he is done I don't think there's a chance of him blindly falling for things and letting it drop. He didn't with the indemnity on CWR.

This hopefully isn't a one time thing and nobody is believing everything said, they have just put down what was said. It will be followed up.

The club comes first for the majority of people on here but for some individuals it doesn't sadly.

I think they do mean to build, but they mean to build at lowest cost possible which is what I hate the thought of. You can knock up something like Shrewsbury's ground for £11m, thats three player sales so the conspiracy theorist in me thinks they'd want to avoid paying anything by selling off some playing assets. Can't let that happen. Well "I" couldn't actually stop it, but you know what I mean.

 

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[Nick]

An accurate one why not ?

I am sure we will find out.

 

[shmmeee]

the possibility of a new stadium will pick up momentum if the commission rules there is no case to answer.
Common sense dictates SISU aren't going to commit large sums until things are clearer. The financial picture for wasps isn't bright as is and is downright gloomy if the Commission decides there is a case to answer.

What are you expecting to happen if the council lose their case? You think Sisu will pay market rate and CCFC will be able to afford it on their own?

 

[Nick]

I think they do mean to build, but they mean to build at lowest cost possible which is what I hate the thought of. You can knock up something like Shrewsbury's ground for £11m, thats three player sales so the conspiracy theorist in me thinks they'd want to avoid paying anything by selling off some playing assets. Can't let that happen. Well "I" couldn't actually stop it, but you know what I mean.

I'd probably worry about the stadium design and branding when it came to it. At the moment it's like trying to decide whether I would finish on Holly Willoughby's face or chest.

 

[hill83]

What are you expecting to happen if the council lose their case? You think Sisu will pay market rate and CCFC will be able to afford it on their own?

Champions league

 

[Grendel]

I’m sure mr Duggins is impartial

Wasps recognised in Civic reception

 

[rob9872]

SISU are full of sh*t, we've seen that for years, but equally I think this is progress. I don't for one minute believe they'll ever lay a brick and their short term plan imo remains to distress Wasps or win the legal battle to oust them and gain control of the Ricoh or failing that to get a stake in the Ricoh so they can control some of the income - a bit like having a dragon from the den on board and Wasps would do well imo to get them on side. Ultimately they want to sell us for a profit and that's only achieved with on-field success and a commercial revenue stream. They have finally woken up to that part.

What Pete and Mark did in getting them round the table is not a love in, nor is it holding them to account, but it opens dialogue and affords an opportunity to push home the point that all fans from all sides of all arguments want a long term sustainable deal in Coventry. They were rightly courteous to Joy and Dave and I'm sure they'd offer the same to Wasps or Council hierarchy in the best interests of nobody but CCFC and the fans. We deserve better and they are doing something to facilitate that. Ultimately it might not make a difference, but they're trying and should be applauded for doing so. Those saying it didn't go far enough, what did you expect them to achieve in a first ever face to face? It's a starting point and at least they're doing something. I'd shake Joy's hand, Eastwood's hand, I'd even consider Johnson and the trust cronies or Council luvvies if I thought it would make a difference.

Well done Pete/Mark, fantastic start, keep up the momentum.

 

[HuckerbyDublinWhelan]

What are you expecting to happen if the council lose their case? You think Sisu will pay market rate and CCFC will be able to afford it on their own?

The best outcome would be that we go back to square 1, the lease reverts back to the council and we get it at a more favourable rental deal. Despite the hostility - the council would still welcome the club back

 

[Grendel]

What are you expecting to happen if the council lose their case? You think Sisu will pay market rate and CCFC will be able to afford it on their own?

No I’d expect wasps to go under and the original lease re-applied which also of course is a reason the council do not want the club back

 

[Ring Of Steel]

I'd probably worry about the stadium design and branding when it came to it. At the moment it's like trying to decide whether I would finish on Holly Willoughby's face or chest.

When you've spent a year on top of Jo Brand you have to cling onto hope :woot:

 

[Nick]

I’m sure mr Duggins is impartial

Wasps recognised in Civic reception

You mean this bloke?

 

[shmmeee]

No I’d expect wasps to go under and the original lease re-applied which also of course is a reason the council do not want the club back

The lease that would “bankrupt the club within years”. That lease? And then what? We go on rent strike and move to Northampton again but this time there’s no Wasps to buy the Ricoh? Do we stop Marty’s Dad from getting beaten up by Biff before or after this?

 

[Nick]

The lease that would “bankrupt the club within years”. That lease? And then what? We go on rent strike and move to Northampton again but this time there’s no Wasps to buy the Ricoh? Do we stop Marty’s Dad from getting beaten up by Biff before or after this?

No, the lease to the stadium management company.

 

[Ring Of Steel]

You mean this bloke?

That makes me fucking sick when we have Coventry Rugby Club here. I said it before but anyone who suddenly becomes a London Wasps fan- the MK Dons of rugby, the franchise club, the unwelcome interlopers- has no soul, no character, is a disgusting human being, and for a councillor to do that, he should seriously be called to account if & when the Wasps "adventure" goes belly up.

 

[SkyBlueZack]

What are you expecting to happen if the council lose their case? You think Sisu will pay market rate and CCFC will be able to afford it on their own?

I’m hoping we pay the same market rate formula they used to determine the cost to wasps for ownership and lease extension.

 

[hill83]

I’m sure mr Duggins is impartial

Wasps recognised in Civic reception

I got married there and that photo has ruined it for me.

 

[Grendel]

The lease that would “bankrupt the club within years”. That lease? And then what? We go on rent strike and move to Northampton again but this time there’s no Wasps to buy the Ricoh? Do we stop Marty’s Dad from getting beaten up by Biff before or after this?

Are you drinking? I suggest you look at the terms of the lease in the case of foreclosure.

 

[Gibbo]

Agree 100% with this post.

as do I

 

[Gynnsthetonic]

Would they allow a writeup to be posted though? Duggins and Wasps.

I hope they would why won't they although Duggins would have to be pre written as there is a certain Dianne Abbot about him

 

[chiefdave]

Would they allow a writeup to be posted though? Duggins and Wasps.

If they won't they you stick that in a press release. Say you asked for an on the record meeting with Wasps and they refused.

 

[clint van damme]

What are you expecting to happen if the council lose their case? You think Sisu will pay market rate and CCFC will be able to afford it on their own?

so now it is the councils case? So you agree the legals against wasps have ceased as requested and agreed?

 

[shmmeee]

I’m hoping we pay the same market rate formula they used to determine the cost to wasps for ownership and lease extension.

That would be the formula that in this hypothetical the EC has ruled as illegal state aid? That formula?

And how would the club afford the running costs of said stadium? Apparently Wasps are fucked without us there, but we’d be fine without them?

It’s a pipe dream. And one invented by fans as a desperate attempt to see an end to this.

This whole argument is “CCFC are lying about everything and are really doing this convoluted plan they’ve explicitly said they aren’t doing and I’m fine with that and see no issues”.

 

[Nick]

That would be the formula that in this hypothetical the EC has ruled as illegal state aid? That formula?

And how would the club afford the running costs of said stadium? Apparently Wasps are fucked without us there, but we’d be fine without them?

It’s a pipe dream. And one invented by fans as a desperate attempt to see an end to this.

This whole argument is “CCFC are lying about everything and are really doing this convoluted plan they’ve explicitly said they aren’t doing and I’m fine with that and see no issues”.

You are the only one constantly inventing things though? Why?

 

[shmmeee]

so now it is the councils case? So you agree the legals against wasps have ceased as requested and agreed?

Really? That’s the best you’ve got?

“the case involving the Ricoh” does that meet your pedantry requirements. FFS.

 

[Gibbo]

Agree with this.

The old Highfield Road (1980's and before) was basically 4 boxes. I'd prefer that to a bowl any day, particularly as t would be a high % full for Championship matches (Hopefully). After the ghastly atmosphere at the Ricoh and obviously the limitations of St Andrews.....

 

[Nick]

Really? That’s the best you’ve got?

“the case involving the Ricoh” does that meet your pedantry requirements. FFS.

You are still trying your best to ignore the fact that they agreed to drop all legal action going forward?

You are on here giving it the billy big spuds and you seem to know fuck all, yet again. Either intentionally or you just want to block certain things out.

 

[SkyBlueZack]

That would be the formula that in this hypothetical the EC has ruled as illegal state aid? That formula?

And how would the club afford the running costs of said stadium? Apparently Wasps are fucked without us there, but we’d be fine without them?

It’s a pipe dream. And one invented by fans as a desperate attempt to see an end to this.

This whole argument is “CCFC are lying about everything and are really doing this convoluted plan they’ve explicitly said they aren’t doing and I’m fine with that and see no issues”.

Afford the running costs? You sound like italia, the problem with the Ricoh is the debt that is attached to it. Initially by the council, then by wasps bonds. If we could have no debt attached to it, then I’d fancy our chances. It was mooted that Sisu would bring in aeg, if they were brought in, would you doubt there ability to run the arena?

 

[mr_monkey]

Really? That’s the best you’ve got?

“the case involving the Ricoh” does that meet your pedantry requirements. FFS.

And that's the issue mate, wasps terms were set out as action against them which sisu agreed to and signed an agreement to say as such and then wasps changed the goal posts to say actions involving the sale of the Ricoh (Which is where the indemnity comes from) so there is no direct question around wasps at all, it is all around the council but again you already know that

 

[Grendel]

That would be the formula that in this hypothetical the EC has ruled as illegal state aid? That formula?

And how would the club afford the running costs of said stadium? Apparently Wasps are fucked without us there, but we’d be fine without them?

It’s a pipe dream. And one invented by fans as a desperate attempt to see an end to this.

This whole argument is “CCFC are lying about everything and are really doing this convoluted plan they’ve explicitly said they aren’t doing and I’m fine with that and see no issues”.

You are gabbling

Foreclosure returns the lease to council ownership - it’s their responsibility to maintain in though there is a clause that protects sub tenants ...

 

[clint van damme]

Really? That’s the best you’ve got?

“the case involving the Ricoh” does that meet your pedantry requirements. FFS.

You were halfway to acknowledging the truth, that legals against wasps have ceased as they requested. For someone who's been banging on about the truth you seem happy to ignore it when it suits.

 

[Ring Of Steel]

The old Highfield Road (1980's and before) was basically 4 boxes. I'd prefer that to a bowl any day, particularly as t would be a high % full for Championship matches (Hopefully). After the ghastly atmosphere at the Ricoh and obviously the limitations of St Andrews.....

Not quite true though- 4 very different 'boxes' including a two tiered West Stand (when do you ever see a double decker stand in new grounds apart from the very top ones?), and each stand kind of morphed into the next in the corners- the newer ones like Shrewsbury/ Oxford/ Chesterfield etc have big empty patches of tarmac in the corners so the noise just seeps out and one stand is miles away from the next. The atmosphere of 'old' grounds was because they were built in piecemeal fashion in very awkward sites so people had to be very clever to get as many people in, you cannot recreate that, but you can be smart and have four stands with atmosphere, we don't have to throw up another cheap set of four boxes. A good example of how you can do it is Wigan where you have 4 different stands but the corners are pretty effectively blocked out. Then again I only have bad memories of Wigan having seen us concede 6 there across 2 seasons. I would definitely prefer 4 stands, but done right.

 

[tisza]

The lease that would “bankrupt the club within years”. That lease? And then what? We go on rent strike and move to Northampton again but this time there’s no Wasps to buy the Ricoh? Do we stop Marty’s Dad from getting beaten up by Biff before or after this?

The playing field has radically shifted since the original lease.
1. The possibility of a significantly extended lease. Revalues everything.
2.removal of higgs trust from the equation. That relationship was a problematical.

 

[Senior Vick from Alicante]

Haven't posted for a while and this thread takes some reading, it's like war and fucking peace. My question for shmee is why would Sisu withdraw the appeal, which they can't? If you win that appeal after you have built a new stadium you could use the possibility of getting a financial settlement to offset the cost? Or perhaps get some sort of part ownership of the Ricoh as settlement which means a new stadium would be a white elephant. The one thing that you can't argue with is CCC are a bunch of idiots. I have a relative that started their last year after working in the corporate sector for 20 years. They waist money constantly and are top heavy in the management structure. If you're shit at your job you get moved side ways or paid off, this means that it's the same people doing the same things whilst holding the same political bias. The issues of grounds and ownership will never be resolved until the legal avenue's open to our owner's are exhausted. Wasps have insisted on the indemnity after taking legal advice presumably, they won't change that as they advice will have modelled all the possible outcomes. One would think that the 3 year agreement at Blues is because the owners thought that would be the time scale for legals to be exhausted. The whole scenario is s clusterfuck with 3 guilty party's, I am not s fan of them or the EU but at least the EU will give us closer for once and all.

 

[shmmeee]

Afford the running costs? You sound like italia, the problem with the Ricoh is the debt that is attached to it. Initially by the council, then by wasps bonds. If we could have no debt attached to it, then I’d fancy our chances. It was mooted that Sisu would bring in aeg, if they were brought in, would you doubt there ability to run the arena?

But how would the debt be gone in a deal that by definition was state aid and can’t be replicated. You want the council to write off debt just after receiving a slap on the wrist for state aid.

I don’t think we can afford the Ricoh on crowds of less than 10k, no. As I said to Grendel that might change if we get promoted.

The bigger point is how long do we try this avenue before giving up? Would you support another three years away while we appeal say? What about after that if we want civil action would you support another decade away?

The assumption seems to be that wait a few months and Wasps will go and CCC will come crawling giving us the Ricoh for peanuts and we ride off into the sunset making millions. It just doesn’t make sense for me. But it is a very nice dream to hold onto when wondering why your club are playing outside Coventry. People were saying this would happen any minute now for the last six years. When is enough enough?

 

[tisza]

What are you expecting to happen if the council lose their case? You think Sisu will pay market rate and CCFC will be able to afford it on their own?

Have to figure in market rate will drop if only one potential buyer.
Also the deal wasps got with the extended lease was a very attractive one. Shouldn't be difficult to attract investment if coupled with championship football.
Also increases possibilities for getting SISU out as ccfc becomes a different investment opportunity.
Also finances distorted due to size of wasps bond which in part was used to pay off debt/loans to their owners.