Corona in reverse (6 Viewers)

[Grendel]

Do people think they would be behaving the same way if the mortality rates were reversed - namely there’s was a significantly higher risk of under 60’s dying than the other way round?

I’ve only started a separate thread as I think the minder is I’m alright Jack as I’m not old and vulnerable

 

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[richnrg]

yes, very much so.
The Sun would be calling it 'the baby eating virus'

 

[wingy]

Do people think they would be behaving the same way if the mortality rates were reversed - namely there’s was a significantly higher risk of under 60’s dying than the other way round?

I’ve only started a separate thread as I think the minder is I’m alright Jack as I’m not old and vulnerable

Maybe so.
Was the case with Spanish flu , prevalent among the 20-40's.

 

[chiefdave]

People do seem to very casually toss out 'its only old people and those with existing conditions' as if they don't matter.

 

[Ring Of Steel]

Do people think they would be behaving the same way if the mortality rates were reversed - namely there’s was a significantly higher risk of under 60’s dying than the other way round?

I’ve only started a separate thread as I think the minder is I’m alright Jack as I’m not old and vulnerable

Its a good point- I have parents, uncles, aunties etc, a lot are blatantly in the 'at most risk' group and its very worrying. I'm in decent shape and not so worried but my folks are getting on a bit now. All these people ignoring the advice & carrying on as normal are risking lives. There was one guy on the other forum saying his wife worked with someone who tested positive and he was looking forward to going to St Andrews- that type of behaviour could literally kill people.

I am also sick of people saying "its only the old and sick", oh thats ok then, totally expendable. What group will be next to be written off as unimportant- the unemployed? the disabled? People are people.

 

[Otis]

My dad is 90 and my mum, 89.

Do feel they are being casually tossed aside in many a conversation.

 

[Ring Of Steel]

My dad is 90 and my mum, 89.

Do feel they are being casually tossed aside in many conversation.

Yep, I feel the same. Even if that weren't the case with elderly parents though so there was no personal interest, I don't like this classification of some people being more important than others.

And I hope your folks remain unaffected and in rude health for a long time to come :emoji_muscle:

 

[Evo1883]

Do people think they would be behaving the same way if the mortality rates were reversed - namely there’s was a significantly higher risk of under 60’s dying than the other way round?

I’ve only started a separate thread as I think the minder is I’m alright Jack as I’m not old and vulnerable

Ofcourse, because the main consensus would be that it will wipe out the working population.

 

[lifeskyblue]

My mum in her 80s, lives alone. Me and my sister both live outside Coventry...so yes worried for her (and I’m in 60s with underlying health problem). Sister going tomorrow to visit and I am Friday. Mum also has a help go in once a week (can see that service under threat if staff become ill). Luckily she has good neighbours who would give one of us a call if there were any issues.
But yes it is the usual media response....elderly not interesting, not newsworthy, just another statistic. Wait till a child or teen (I know more unlikely from what we know of covid19 so far), or a health professional in uk or (god forbid) a celeb dies of Coronavirus...then the reporting will change, the government response become controlling (in terms of restricting events, movement etc), and people taking the whole thing more seriously.

 

[djr8369]

People are being a bit blasé about it in that sense.

Governments would also act differently as the economic harm would be more severe if younger people would be at higher risk.

I was just saying today that they should be looking at yelling at risk groups to not come to work to limit their risk of exposure. Those of us in our 20s and 30s could carry on working longer and so mitigate some of the economic harm of a shutdown.


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[Liquid Gold]

I don't think it is people tossing aside the elderly or vulnerable I think it is being used as a reason to calm the mad fears of people in their 30s in perfect health panic buying things that are needed to help those more likely to have complications.

'If you're not elderly and in good health you have very little to fear' =\= 'fuck the old'
'If you're not elderly and in good health you have very little to fear' = 'calm down and wash your hands'

If it was more fatal for kids though people would lose their shit.

 

[wingy]

Ofcourse, because the main consensus would be that it will wipe out the working population.

But will all be old in the future.
What happens when that one comes along .
Mind you could be a few hastened inherentences cropping up.lol

 

[wingy]

People are being a bit blasé about it in that sense.

Governments would also act differently as the economic harm would be more severe if younger people would be at higher risk.

I was just saying today that they should be looking at yelling at risk groups to not come to work to limit their risk of exposure. Those of us in our 20s and 30s could carry on working longer and so mitigate some of the economic harm of a shutdown.


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And their kids who are still at school MN

 

[olderskyblue]

Were'nt the old uns blamed for the brexit result? This is Corbyn's revenge...

 

[CCFCSteve]

I don't think it is people tossing aside the elderly or vulnerable I think it is being used as a reason to calm the mad fears of people in their 30s in perfect health panic buying things that are needed to help those more likely to have complications.

'If you're not elderly and in good health you have very little to fear' =\= 'fuck the old'
'If you're not elderly and in good health you have very little to fear' = 'calm down and wash your hands'

If it was more fatal for kids though people would lose their shit.

Spot on. Most have got elderly parents or grandparents so I don’t think it’s a case of a majority of people not giving a toss at all. Hopefully it’s people appreciating that it’s the elderly/ill that are at greater risk and therefore they should try not to worry too much about themselves, follow the health and hygiene advice and minimise the risk of passing it on if they do have symptoms

unfortunately as I’ve said numerous times before the younger/healthier people panic buying, booking up grocery slots etc etc, suggest there are still many others that appear to care more about themselves than anyone else young or old

 

[OffenhamSkyBlue]

I don't necessarily think it's the case that the old and otherwise vulnerable are being tossed aside. The fact of the matter is that, on average, 8000 people in that category die from seasonal flu in England every year, but we don't tell anyone to "self-isolate" to prevent the spread of flu do we? So we clearly don't care THAT much about the old and vulnerable dying from infections.
That said, it is very important that people who may have symptoms do everything they can to prevent the spread to the wider population, and self-isolate or get tested.

 

[shmmeee]

I don't necessarily think it's the case that the old and otherwise vulnerable are being tossed aside. The fact of the matter is that, on average, 8000 people in that category die from seasonal flu in England every year, but we don't tell anyone to "self-isolate" to prevent the spread of flu do we? So we clearly don't care THAT much about the old and vulnerable dying from infections.
That said, it is very important that people who may have symptoms do everything they can to prevent the spread to the wider population, and self-isolate or get tested.

Getting so tired of seeing this.
U
Self isolation is because it’s more deadly and we don’t have an immunity. That’s why we send isolate here and not for the flu (which we have vaccines for), or as I saw today on FB car crashes (!!) which aren’t contagious.

 

[Ian1779]

I actually think if it was something that affects kids like that there would be less in the press about it.

 

[OffenhamSkyBlue]

Getting so tired of seeing this.
U
Self isolation is because it’s more deadly and we don’t have an immunity. That’s why we send isolate here and not for the flu (which we have vaccines for), or as I saw today on FB car crashes (!!) which aren’t contagious.

WHERE is the evidence that it is "more deadly"? Absolute rubbish! You cannot calculate a headline case fatality rate on so few deaths when all those who have died are in an identified at-risk group.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

People do seem to very casually toss out 'its only old people and those with existing conditions' as if they don't matter.

I don't think that's the case at all. I think it is worth balancing however, that the fear about its impact has needed to be balanced out by pointing out that people who are older and / or with pre-existing conditions are the ones most under threat, and that many people also die from flu. That doesn'#t mean that people want to write off people, but they do want to emphasise that the 'threat' isn't as totalising as it sometimes comes across.

Now... as somebody with a pre-existing condition that *could* cause trouble, am I in a position to say that?

The advice about washing hands etc. is well-founded and of course should be followed, *every* death is a tragedy to somebody (and all the more if it's somebody you're actually close to), and the case that it coul;d overwhelm the NHS is a perfectly valid reason to try and keep it at bay for the moment.

But the simple fact is, *most* people should be OK, and that probably needs explaining to calm a panic. The same as *most* people are OK from flu, *most* people don't get complications from operations. The scale here *might* be more, so steps can be taken to safeguard. That doesn't mean 30yos have to buy a shop's supply of bog roll!

That doesn't mean that those under threat, or who suffer, can't be shown compassion, and steps can't be taken to help them and try and help prevent them (and us) being infected. It's not an either / or. It's not all or none.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Do people think they would be behaving the same way if the mortality rates were reversed - namely there’s was a significantly higher risk of under 60’s dying than the other way round?

I’ve only started a separate thread as I think the minder is I’m alright Jack as I’m not old and vulnerable

That would have a far more potent threat for the economy and even you must see that.

 

[OffenhamSkyBlue]

I don't think that's the case at all. I think it is worth balancing however, that the fear about its impact has needed to be balanced out by pointing out that people who are older and / or with pre-existing conditions are the ones most under threat, and that many people also die from flu. That doesn'#t mean that people want to write off people, but they do want to emphasise that the 'threat' isn't as totalising as it sometimes comes across.

Now... as somebody with a pre-existing condition that *could* cause trouble, am I in a position to say that?

The advice about washing hands etc. is well-founded and of course should be followed, *every* death is a tragedy to somebody (and all the more if it's somebody you're actually close to), and the case that it coul;d overwhelm the NHS is a perfectly valid reason to try and keep it at bay for the moment.

But the simple fact is, *most* people should be OK, and that probably needs explaining to calm a panic. The same as *most* people are OK from flu, *most* people don't get complications from operations. The scale here *might* be more, so steps can be taken to safeguard. That doesn't mean 30yos have to buy a shop's supply of bog roll!

That doesn't mean that those under threat, or who suffer, can't be shown compassion, and steps can't be taken to help them and try and help prevent them (and us) being infected. It's not an either / or. It's not all or none.

Best post i've seen on the subject, full stop!

 

[David O'Day]

No as I have and elderly mother

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[Grendel]

That would have a far more potent threat for the economy and even you must see that.

I think it’s more self interest - I don’t think there would be obsessions about cancelling football matches robbing our season if it was under 40’s at risk - people won’t self isolate as they don’t think it impacts them

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

I think it’s more self interest - I don’t think there would be obsessions about cancelling football matches robbing our season if it was under 40’s at risk - people won’t self isolate as they don’t think it impacts them

The impact on society's ability to function of pensioners dying is much less than that of the workforce. If that changes then the government will change tack. That doesn't mean it isn't horrible for those who have been bereaved

 

[OffenhamSkyBlue]

This latest peak has been caused by well-off people coming back from their holidays in Italy (which is why Hertfordshire and Kensington & Chelsea have the highest incidence rates - 18x a city the size of Birmingham!), and when that stops, I think/hope the rates of new cases will decline.
The unknown in all of this is just WHY Italy have been utterly incapable of controlling its spread. Anyone heard any theories on that? Free-spiritedness??

 

[Grendel]

The impact on society's ability to function of pensioners dying is much less than that of the workforce. If that changes then the government will change tack. That doesn't mean it isn't horrible for those who have been bereaved

It’s not the government buying up paracetamol stock piling everything and flogging hand gel on e bay for £30

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

It’s not the government buying up paracetamol stock piling everything and flogging hand gel on e bay for £30

That's people being stupid and swallowing media headlines unquestioningly-but then again you dismiss the idea that some of the general public are stupid so I'm not sure what to make of it

 

[Grendel]

This latest peak has been caused by well-off people coming back from their holidays in Italy (which is why Hertfordshire and Kensington & Chelsea have the highest incidence rates - 18x a city the size of Birmingham!), and when that stops, I think/hope the rates of new cases will decline.
The unknown in all of this is just WHY Italy have been utterly incapable of controlling its spread. Anyone heard any theories on that? Free-spiritedness??

Italy have thousands of illegal Chinese migrants it’s a sub class who have been travelling freely between the two countries - oddly it’s not getting much reporting

 

[rob9872]

Annoying how each time somebody old dies, they seem to try and justify it by saying they had underlying health issues. Go figure! They're old. Almost all old people have underlying health issues, doesn't make them expendable.

Twat at work said if the old people die of Corona that we could cancel Brexit, he didn't think it was so funny when I said shut the fk up you snivelling little c**t.

 

[CCFCSteve]

Annoying how each time somebody old dies, they seem to try and justify it by saying they had underlying health issues. Go figure! They're old. Almost all old people have underlying health issues, doesn't make then expendable

Rob, I honestly don’t think that’s the point they are making,l. More the fact that’s these health issues have, more than likely, combined with the coronavirus to cause the fatality (it might even be that their underlying health issues caused the fatality but the individual also had coronavirus). It is important that the distinction is made. It goes without saying that if there are increased fatalities of people without underlying health issues then it’s obviously a more deadly virus.

 

[CCFCSteve]

Italy have thousands of illegal Chinese migrants it’s a sub class who have been travelling freely between the two countries - oddly it’s not getting much reporting

I don’t know about Chinese migrant population but I recall reading about one of the initial Italian ‘super spreaders’ that went to the doctors three times before being tested and diagnosed.

It’s hard to make comparisons as it appears we are at different stages of the spread, however, as Sick Boy mentioned whilst Italy have an excellent health system, there may not have an equivalent NHS 111 which could make a difference here. Since the start of the spread here people concerned that they might have contracted the virus have been asked to call 111 and not attend doctors surgeries. I am hoping that this may have helped to reduce the spread of the virus to those who are already ill (the surgeon who returned from Italy skiing and didn’t self isolate aside - ridiculous !) which could be important in relation to the severity of the reactions/fatalities. If they appear to have the virus then the advice has also been for these individuals to self isolate straight away, rather than them continuing to be out and about, or in doctors surgeries or hospitals. I have also read about the earlier strain (more prevalent in China and then italy) which might’ve been more aggressive.

Who knows. It’s just too early to tell. Fingers crossed for our sake that some of the above mean that it is less severe over here and let’s also hope there are also improvements in Italy soon.

 

[rob9872]

Rob, I honestly don’t think that’s the point they are making,l. More the fact that’s these health issues have, more than likely, combined with the coronavirus to cause the fatality (it might even be that their underlying health issues caused the fatality but the individual also had coronavirus). It is important that the distinction is made. It goes without saying that if there are increased fatalities of people without underlying health issues then it’s obviously a more deadly virus.

I get what you're saying, but perhaps they need to be more explicit in their explanation. It sounds like they're saying it was expected because of underlying health issues but in reality almost every old person I know has something wrong with them.

 

[Ring Of Steel]

That would have a far more potent threat for the economy and even you must see that.

You encapsulate the entire point- why is every fucking thing about ‘the economy’? About how rich people can become? About how much peoples investments might drop? These are human beings, not economic assets, pieces of meat whose purpose is to keep the wheels turning on UK PLC, it’s people’s mums and dads, grandparents, family. So take the “economic impact” stuff and try having some humanity, some decency.

 

[Alan Dugdales Moustache]

You encapsulate the entire point- why is every fucking thing about ‘the economy’? About how rich people can become? About how much peoples investments might drop? These are human beings, not economic assets, pieces of meat whose purpose is to keep the wheels turning on UK PLC, it’s people’s mums and dads, grandparents, family. So take the “economic impact” stuff and try having some humanity, some decency.

Bravo. We all know this anyway. My investments have dropped but I couldn't give a toss right now compared with ensuring my family are going to be looked after as much as possible. It's not all about how rich people can become. Most people aren't thinking that way.