Non League teams (3 Viewers)

Somerset Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
The MJPL's fixtures seem to be going ahead whereas the JPL have decided to call theirs off - it's caused quite a bit of controversy between parents who like to compare the two
Have to admit, I had to Google mjpl (I did guess it would be that!).
Not hoping to divert this thread....but how does it compare?
Down in the southwest, just not enough players/population to support academy, localised jpl (is Somerset jpl) and grassroots, which is why the jpl around here can stretch 3+ hours of traveling, down to Cornwall!
 

Walsgrave

Well-Known Member
Have to admit, I had to Google mjpl (I did guess it would be that!).
Not hoping to divert this thread....but how does it compare?
Down in the southwest, just not enough players/population to support academy, localised jpl (is Somerset jpl) and grassroots, which is why the jpl around here can stretch 3+ hours of traveling, down to Cornwall!
The Midland Junior Premier League was set up in 2004 with the intention to bridge the gap between academy and grassroots football - it had age group teams from U12-U16 for many of the biggest non league teams in the Midlands, and clubs who were successful in their local leagues were often encouraged to enter the League to play against the best teams in the Midlands, so to speak. Up until 2011, the MJPL operated and featured these big clubs from the Midlands but then there came a number of issues if I remember rightly - their website was shut down, there were concerns about the standard of the league (e.g. big scoreline differences like 10-0 victories were quite common, and it was believed that this was because too many clubs, playing under the banner of a professional club , were not actually that good).

So then some of the managers from the Midland Junior Premier League (I think Bath City in particular were involved in this) decided to create a new elite league which they originally named the Junior Premier League South', featuring many of the teams from the MJPL but also quite a few more teams from the the Somerset area going all the way down to Bournemouth. Over the years, the Junior Premier League expanded and thus were able to drop the 'South' from their name (I think in 2013) and now there are leagues within the JPL covering all parts of the country, whereas the MJPL still covers the Midlands area only.

The website of the JPL seems to be a lot fancier that that of the MJPL, and I think it's because there are so many more teams serving as feeder/shadow teamas to professional clubs in that league. As for comparisons about the standards between the leagues, it is probably the case that one can only really compare the standard within the Midlands for a fair comparison, and this is hard to deduce because for all the glamour of the JPL's website, it says relatively little about how good their players are compared to the MJPL.
 

Somerset Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
The Midland Junior Premier League was set up in 2004 with the intention to bridge the gap between academy and grassroots football - it had age group teams from U12-U16 for many of the biggest non league teams in the Midlands, and clubs who were successful in their local leagues were often encouraged to enter the League to play against the best teams in the Midlands, so to speak. Up until 2011, the MJPL operated and featured these big clubs from the Midlands but then there came a number of issues if I remember rightly - their website was shut down, there were concerns about the standard of the league (e.g. big scoreline differences like 10-0 victories were quite common, and it was believed that this was because too many clubs, playing under the banner of a professional club , were not actually that good).

So then some of the managers from the Midland Junior Premier League (I think Bath City in particular were involved in this) decided to create a new elite league which they originally named the Junior Premier League South', featuring many of the teams from the MJPL but also quite a few more teams from the the Somerset area going all the way down to Bournemouth. Over the years, the Junior Premier League expanded and thus were able to drop the 'South' from their name (I think in 2013) and now there are leagues within the JPL covering all parts of the country, whereas the MJPL still covers the Midlands area only.

The website of the JPL seems to be a lot fancier that that of the MJPL, and I think it's because there are so many more teams serving as feeder/shadow teamas to professional clubs in that league. As for comparisons about the standards between the leagues, it is probably the case that one can only really compare the standard within the Midlands for a fair comparison, and this is hard to deduce because for all the glamour of the JPL's website, it says relatively little about how good their players are compared to the MJPL.
Thanks walsgrave - a very thorough comparison!
As you mention, from what I can see, it should be about player development and enjoyment, very few of these kids will end up playing for a living, as those players are already at academies...though I guess the dream is still on.
In an area with fewer players, the leap to academy from some of the jpl players seems very slight, likewise some in grassroots could easily step up to jpl.
What has been good is the access to better and more regular coaching - the coaches at grassroots do give the best and try (though a few still like to play a neanderthal style!), whereas I've seen a real focus on developing a style of playing it from the back, playing with confidence and no shouting from parents at the side with jpl.
 

mark82

Super Moderator
No one who is a CCFC fan should support Cov United.

They were formed in reaction to us moving to Northampton, therefore using our shiity situation as a way to promote themselves.

They are not a true alternative Coventry club as far as I'm concerned. Support Coventry Sphinx instead.

Sent from my I3113 using Tapatalk

Chill, they aren't a threat to us.

@AStonesThrow hope you managed to get to a local game somewhere whether it was Cov United, Sphinx or another.
 

Walsgrave

Well-Known Member
Thanks walsgrave - a very thorough comparison!
As you mention, from what I can see, it should be about player development and enjoyment, very few of these kids will end up playing for a living, as those players are already at academies...though I guess the dream is still on.
In an area with fewer players, the leap to academy from some of the jpl players seems very slight, likewise some in grassroots could easily step up to jpl.
What has been good is the access to better and more regular coaching - the coaches at grassroots do give the best and try (though a few still like to play a neanderthal style!), whereas I've seen a real focus on developing a style of playing it from the back, playing with confidence and no shouting from parents at the side with jpl.
Youth football is quite a fascinating topic especially in this day and age where many more players are breaking through at 18-20 from non league having never stepped foot on pristine academy pitches before - I think it brings us back to the importance of treating under-16 football as something for enjoyment.

On that note, one impact that the Junior Premier League has had (as well as the MJPL) is to bring about a relative demise of schools FA football. Both the JPL and the MJPL play on Saturday mornings, which is the same time as when schools FA fixtures take place. Many parents of kids in schools FA teams believe (rightly or wrongly) that the chances of their sons making it into an academy is higher in a JPL or MJPL team, as opposed to getting spotted playing for a schools district team so they shun the opportunity for their sons to represent their city/district schools FA team in favour of what they think is a more elite standard. One reason could also be that the facilities that schools district teams play on (typically school playing fields), are inferior to the facilities on offer at a Junior Premier League team (often as academy training grounds).

In Coventry, schools district teams run from U12-U15 age groups and I remember that Coventy Sphinx often set up an under 16 team in the MJPL, taking the best players (including previouss Coventry schools district players) to play in the MJPL. I think that gave them the best of both worlds - representing the schools FA and then continuing their development during their last year of school.
 

Somerset Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
Youth football is quite a fascinating topic especially in this day and age where many more players are breaking through at 18-20 from non league having never stepped foot on pristine academy pitches before - I think it brings us back to the importance of treating under-16 football as something for enjoyment.

On that note, one impact that the Junior Premier League has had (as well as the MJPL) is to bring about a relative demise of schools FA football. Both the JPL and the MJPL play on Saturday mornings, which is the same time as when schools FA fixtures take place. Many parents of kids in schools FA teams believe (rightly or wrongly) that the chances of their sons making it into an academy is higher in a JPL or MJPL team, as opposed to getting spotted playing for a schools district team so they shun the opportunity for their sons to represent their city/district schools FA team in favour of what they think is a more elite standard. One reason could also be that the facilities that schools district teams play on (typically school playing fields), are inferior to the facilities on offer at a Junior Premier League team (often as academy training grounds).

In Coventry, schools district teams run from U12-U15 age groups and I remember that Coventy Sphinx often set up an under 16 team in the MJPL, taking the best players (including previouss Coventry schools district players) to play in the MJPL. I think that gave them the best of both worlds - representing the schools FA and then continuing their development during their last year of school.
We have a different problem here in Somerset - grassroots play on a Saturday morning (apparently so they don't clash with Sunday morning rugby), so players who have been in grassroots team can switch to jpl at under 11, resulting in a drop at grassroots!
And...the jpl teams (either professional clubs like Yeovil, Southampton or Exeter) or local non league like Taunton have started to recruit, train and offer friendlies for under 7,8,9 and 10s.... impacting further on grassroots.
School football is way down the list.
 

Walsgrave

Well-Known Member
We have a different problem here in Somerset - grassroots play on a Saturday morning (apparently so they don't clash with Sunday morning rugby), so players who have been in grassroots team can switch to jpl at under 11, resulting in a drop at grassroots!
And...the jpl teams (either professional clubs like Yeovil, Southampton or Exeter) or local non league like Taunton have started to recruit, train and offer friendlies for under 7,8,9 and 10s.... impacting further on grassroots.
School football is way down the list.

The moral of the story is sadly then that money (which comes in abundance at Premier League teams) seems to rule the way youth football is being organised. I used to raise my eyebrows seeing teams such as 'Arsenal Soccer Schools Bournemouth' being put on a pedestal but now that seems to be the normality. Reading some of the profiles of professional youth team players and seeing phrases such as 'Having entered academy football at a relatively late stage at the under 13 level' makes me question whether the whole academy environment really is a good thing, because there is almost an implicit assumption there that if one does not enter academy at the under 8 level, then their chances of making it professionally are gone, and it promotes the idea that academy football is like a job.

I guess that the JPL does seem to be a very good idea particularly in the southwest where it is not feasible for academy teams to travel around the country, and the rep teams do a great job at finding talent (indeed, they often beat academy teams in friendlies), it's just a question about whether the league takes out the enjoyment out of youth football!
 
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Somerset Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
The moral of the story is sadly then that money (which comes in abundance at Premier League teams) seems to rule the way youth football is being organised. I used to raise my eyebrows seeing teams such as 'Arsenal Soccer Schools Bournemouth' being put on a pedestal but now that seems to be the normality. Reading some of the profiles of professional youth team players and seeing phrases such as 'Having entered academy football at a relatively late stage at the under 13 level' makes me question whether the whole academy environment really is a good thing, because there is almost an implicit assumption there that if one does not enter academy at the under 8 level, then their chances of making it professionally are gone, and it promotes the idea that academy football is like a job.

I guess that the JPL does seem to be a very good idea particularly in the southwest where it is not feasible for academy teams to travel around the country, and the rep teams do a great job at finding talent (indeed, they often beat academy teams in friendlies), it's just a question about whether the league takes out the enjoyment out of youth football!
Enjoyment and fun should be key for young players. Kids at eight given sheets to monitor diets and regular training with limits to game time / other sports with friends has a real impact socially for them.
I still 'play' a few times a week in my mid forties and love it. You hear and see youngsters who become disillusioned with the game as teenagers and stop playing - the kinds of players who would fill up local amateur teams, powerleague etc.
Another friend has links with jpl in London area and says it is vital due to the high number of players, so a clearer step up from grassroots, to jpl to the very few that get selected for academy.
Who knows if it is positive overall? Whilst we look at the premier League and money, it is also a global game, so the English teams are also competing with others for the best talent. If parents keep players grounded and the coaches focus on enjoyment and development, it should be positive, but human nature isn't always that simple.
 

Irish Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
Youth football is quite a fascinating topic especially in this day and age where many more players are breaking through at 18-20 from non league having never stepped foot on pristine academy pitches before - I think it brings us back to the importance of treating under-16 football as something for enjoyment.

On that note, one impact that the Junior Premier League has had (as well as the MJPL) is to bring about a relative demise of schools FA football. Both the JPL and the MJPL play on Saturday mornings, which is the same time as when schools FA fixtures take place. Many parents of kids in schools FA teams believe (rightly or wrongly) that the chances of their sons making it into an academy is higher in a JPL or MJPL team, as opposed to getting spotted playing for a schools district team so they shun the opportunity for their sons to represent their city/district schools FA team in favour of what they think is a more elite standard. One reason could also be that the facilities that schools district teams play on (typically school playing fields), are inferior to the facilities on offer at a Junior Premier League team (often as academy training grounds).

In Coventry, schools district teams run from U12-U15 age groups and I remember that Coventy Sphinx often set up an under 16 team in the MJPL, taking the best players (including previouss Coventry schools district players) to play in the MJPL. I think that gave them the best of both worlds - representing the schools FA and then continuing their development during their last year of school.
This is true. My son played for Nuneaton Schools but as he progressed up the age groups more and more of his team mates opted to play MJPL on Saturday mornings. The district team in his final year of playing was considerably weaker than when he started. He played MJPL when the district team finished when he was 15.. He played for Nuneaton Town youth team in the Midland Floodlit League from age 18 to 20 and that was a good standard of football.
 

Walsgrave

Well-Known Member
This is true. My son played for Nuneaton Schools but as he progressed up the age groups more and more of his team mates opted to play MJPL on Saturday mornings. The district team in his final year of playing was considerably weaker than when he started. He played MJPL when the district team finished when he was 15.. He played for Nuneaton Town youth team in the Midland Floodlit League from age 18 to 20 and that was a good standard of football.
I seem to remember around 10 years ago when I was playing, Nuneaton Town launched their MJPL academy from under 14 to under 18, with additional teams in the MFYL and the Leicestershire Youth Floodlit Leagues at Youth team level, and they were particularly good (winning MJPL cups/doing well in the leagues). For some of the younger age groups, they put out a joint MJPL and schools FA team so that they could compete in both. There is generally a lack of decent pitches in Nuneaton so they would play at places like Griff and Coton, Haunchwood, Atherstone and Bulkington (though I don't rmemeber where the schools FA team played). If I remember rightly, the youth team was scrapped due to racism and possibly financial issues but then relaunched again the year after and did pretty well!
 

Irish Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
I seem to remember around 10 years ago when I was playing, Nuneaton Town launched their MJPL academy from under 14 to under 18, with additional teams in the MFYL and the Leicestershire Youth Floodlit Leagues at Youth team level, and they were particularly good (winning MJPL cups/doing well in the leagues). For some of the younger age groups, they put out a joint MJPL and schools FA team so that they could compete in both. There is generally a lack of decent pitches in Nuneaton so they would play at places like Griff and Coton, Haunchwood, Atherstone and Bulkington (though I don't rmemeber where the schools FA team played). If I remember rightly, the youth team was scrapped due to racism and possibly financial issues but then relaunched again the year after and did pretty well!
Nuneaton did have joint Youth and MJPL teams, the former playing mid week (home games at Liberty Way) the latter playing Saturday mornings (home games at Griff and Coton). My son's second and last season with the youth team was the season you mention. It ended under a cloud due to allegations of racist comments made by some Nuneaton players to black players playing for Chasetown. (My son, who played in that game, said that there were racist comments made but that some of the boys who were suspended as a result of this were not the ones responsible). Unfortunately, there were one or two idiot boys in the team that season who also had idiot dad's as well. It caused quite a forore at the time, making national news and drawing comments from former professionals on the way Nuneaton had handled the issue.
The school FA played their games at Nicolas Chamberlain when my son played.
 

Walsgrave

Well-Known Member
Nuneaton did have joint Youth and MJPL teams, the former playing mid week (home games at Liberty Way) the latter playing Saturday mornings (home games at Griff and Coton). My son's second and last season with the youth team was the season you mention. It ended under a cloud due to allegations of racist comments made by some Nuneaton players to black players playing for Chasetown. (My son, who played in that game, said that there were racist comments made but that some of the boys who were suspended as a result of this were not the ones responsible). Unfortunately, there were one or two idiot boys in the team that season who also had idiot dad's as well. It caused quite a forore at the time, making national news and drawing comments from former professionals on the way Nuneaton had handled the issue.
The school FA played their games at Nicolas Chamberlain when my son played.
That rings a lot of bells, yes - I was a few age groups below. Back in the days when Nuneaton Town was on the up as a progressive, modern club looking to break into the football league and created an academy to reflect that ambition.
 

Irish Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
That rings a lot of bells, yes - I was a few age groups below. Back in the days when Nuneaton Town was on the up as a progressive, modern club looking to break into the football league and created an academy to reflect that ambition.
He had a really good two years, played with and against some very good players. He also played at some good venues including Lilleshall, Telford Utd and Hendesford Town. The latter two grounds would certainly be league standard. The two main highlights would have been playing at the Bescot Stadium against the Walsall youth team (Nuneaton 2-0 up after half an hour and outplaying Walsall before they hieventually ran out of steam and lost 5-2 in a Midlands Junior Floodlit Cup game) and beating Stratford Town at Rugby Town's ground to win the Birmingham Youth Cup. My son is 26 this year and that will be the best standard he played at although he has gone on to work in football, though not as a player.
 

Walsgrave

Well-Known Member
He had a really good two years, played with and against some very good players. He also played at some good venues including Lilleshall, Telford Utd and Hendesford Town. The latter two grounds would certainly be league standard. The two main highlights would have been playing at the Bescot Stadium against the Walsall youth team (Nuneaton 2-0 up after half an hour and outplaying Walsall before they hieventually ran out of steam and lost 5-2 in a Midlands Junior Floodlit Cup game) and beating Stratford Town at Rugby Town's ground to win the Birmingham Youth Cup. My son is 26 this year and that will be the best standard he played at although he has gone on to work in football, though not as a player.
The MFYL seemed to be a much higher standard league back then compared to now (though it is hard to judge), but simply looking at the quality of teams etc. Walsall's youth set up has always seemed a bit confusing - they play at Birmingham County FA and entered 'non-academy' competitions such as the MFYL cup (I'm happy to be corrected but was the MFYL Cup opened up to professional academies? And by that I mean not just those college programmes that Birmingham City seem to run, but the actual Under 18 teams of league clubs).

You know more than I about this but that team definitely rings a bell - having within its ranks former Coventry City youth players and would be/former Walsall and Manchester United Players to name a few!
 

no_loyalty

Well-Known Member
National league and all grass roots Football has now been suspended until April. My 5 yr old Nephew who plays for a team on Saturday will be in tears, but it's the most sensible idea.
 

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