Coronavirus Thread (Off Topic, Politics) (190 Viewers)

[BornSlippySkyBlue]

It'll be on frameworks but at an individual trust level. There is no NHS purchasing at genuinely national level apart from pharmaceuticals.

There may not be a central procurement framework but surely if someone at the top, idk like the health minister for example, told all trusts to ensure they had adequate numbers of ventilators a few months ago they wouldn’t have needed to publicly plead with car part makers on Twitter this week. Unless that was purely optics. I noticed they trotted out the phrase ‘on a war footing’, wonder who that was to appeal to...

 

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[djr8369]

There was the same attitude here up until the start of the lockdown, I fully expect the UK to suffer the same fate as here because of it too.

I think you’re right. I think it will be worse here. We’ve spent years demonising experts and telling the public they’re right. They’re not going to listen.


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[chiefdave]

Johnson is starting to look increasingly uncomfortable and out of his depth.

They need to take him out of the frontline. Never thought I'd say this but Andy Burnham is right. Just have one, qualified, person doing a daily briefing. Boris is the last person who should be doing it. He's spent years building up this jokey persona and can't just switch that off.

The press conference last night for example was a shambles. Ignoring if you think the message they are trying to get across is correct or not they are communicating it badly. Was listening on 5Live and as soon as it finished their lines were flooded with people wanting clarification from the medical professional on the show as they didn't understand the advice being given by the government.

 

[tisza]

Was going to ask how the U.K. attitude, both governmental and public, is being perceived abroad?

Was talking to a friend in Ireland and he was aghast that we were living our lives as normal over the weekend and don’t seem to comprehend the situation.


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People generally focusing on their own countries (and neighbours as freedom of movement much more relevant here).
Those that have mentioned UK are surprised Govt hasn't taken stronger action on pubs etc due to the impression of the UK drinking/socialising culture. Also a perception that Brits more likely to ignore their Govt anyway.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Sorry Pete but everyone could see the data and was screaming at them to change course. The idea we wouldn’t be affected like every other country in the world was just ridiculous.

They have changed course haven’t they? Haven’t we?

 

[djr8369]

Johnson is starting to look increasingly uncomfortable and out of his depth.

I’m starting to wonder if he’ll last the year. In fairness he at least seems to be trying to take it seriously even if he can’t quite switch off the jokey persona.


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[chiefdave]

Hoping today they actually formalise some of what they said yesterday regarding not going to events. Know a lot of venue owners and promoters from my days working in the music biz who are furious at the moment as they can't make insurance claims until that happens.

 

[PVA]

They need to take him out of the frontline. Never thought I'd say this but Andy Burnham is right. Just have one, qualified, person doing a daily briefing. Boris is the last person who should be doing it. He's spent years building up this jokey persona and can't just switch that off.

The press conference last night for example was a shambles. Ignoring if you think the message they are trying to get across is correct or not they are communicating it badly. Was listening on 5Live and as soon as it finished their lines were flooded with people wanting clarification from the medical professional on the show as they didn't understand the advice being given by the government.

Yes the scruffy hair and bumbling persona is all well and good when you're presenting HIGNFY, but it does not inspire confidence when speaking to the nation at a time of crisis.

Then the two scientific guys speak and it's like none of them have agreed much beforehand, they all say slightly different things to each other.

 

[fernandopartridge]

There may not be a central procurement framework but surely if someone at the top, idk like the health minister for example, told all trusts to ensure they had adequate numbers of ventilators a few months ago they wouldn’t have needed to publicly plead with car part makers on Twitter this week. Unless that was purely optics. I noticed they trotted out the phrase ‘on a war footing’, wonder who that was to appeal to...

Make no mistake, HanCOCK was playing to the crowd on that. Even if there is a load of ventilators, there are just not enough staff trained to use them. It isn't a case of plug in and away you go. Hancock is an utter utter c**t, my contempt for him is greater than any of the other members of this rotten government.

 

[chiefdave]

Then the two scientific guys speak and it's like none of them have agreed much beforehand, they all say slightly different things to each other.

And they're using language people don't understand. Think of your average Jeremy Kyle viewer sat on their sofa, that's who you've got to get the message across to.

 

[chiefdave]

Has anyone heard any mention of the homeless in all this? Its all well and good telling everyone to stay in but what about those that have nowhere to go?

 

[Skyblueweeman]

To be fair to the politicians, this is such an unknown thing to deal with. Yes, other countries have had it before is but in the grand scheme of things, the whole situation is relatively organic and given that it's a new virus and currently doesn't have a specific treatment, a lot of what is being tested globally is largely trial and error.

Yes people are dying. People die every day from flu like viral infections.

Regardless if it was wrong or not to go down the path the govt did, at least there was rationale there. There was a plan that was developed by leading scientists. Let's not forget that the UK has some of the world leading scientific bodies and institutions. The plan was based was risky and based on a number of assumptions.

It looks like they've quickly realised that a change in direction might be better so they're activating it. Is it still open to scrutiny - yes.

But given this is a total unknown that none of us have faced before, getting every decision right from day one (which we would hope and expect), just isn't possible when you're dealing with the unknown.

Stay safe peoples.

 

[Skyblueweeman]

Has anyone heard any mention of the homeless in all this? Its all well and good telling everyone to stay in but what about those that have nowhere to go?

Piers Morgan (for all his faults) mentioned them this morning. There's talk of letting them use lower standard hotels or hostels if required. Again, logical, not sure on the practicalities of it though.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

I still can't get my head around it. The entire world puts in measures to flatten the curve, yet our government thought we could do the same by… just letting it run. It's incredible. At least they have finally seen sense, some consolation I suppose.

Factually incorrect. If you’d said they delayed measures that would’ve been correct

 

[clint van damme]

To be fair to the politicians, this is such an unknown thing to deal with. Yes, other countries have had it before is but in the grand scheme of things, the whole situation is relatively organic and given that it's a new virus and currently doesn't have a specific treatment, a lot of what is being tested globally is largely trial and error.

Yes people are dying. People die every day from flu like viral infections.

Regardless if it was wrong or not to go down the path the govt did, at least there was rationale there. There was a plan that was developed by leading scientists. Let's not forget that the UK has some of the world leading scientific bodies and institutions. The plan was based was risky and based on a number of assumptions.

It looks like they've quickly realised that a change in direction might be better so they're activating it. Is it still open to scrutiny - yes.

But given this is a total unknown that none of us have faced before, getting every decision right from day one (which we would hope and expect), just isn't possible when you're dealing with the unknown.

Stay safe peoples.

There's a lot of truth in what you say, and I haven't really passed too much comment about it because I really have little understanding of what is going on.
But what djr8369 said is true. We have a government which has made of huge paly of demonising experts and now all of a sudden they need to try and get the public to listen to them and it looks like it could misfire badly on them.

 

[tisza]

There's a lot of truth in what you say, and I haven't really passed too much comment about it because I really have little understanding of what is going on.
But what djr8369 said is true. We have a government which has made of huge paly of demonising experts and now all of a sudden they need to try and get the public to listen to them and it looks like it could misfire badly on them.

not just a Govt but a political culture of demonizing experts - whether it's on economy, health, environment, immigration et al.
People find a theory then search for the expert/data to support it.

 

[BornSlippySkyBlue]

Make no mistake, HanCOCK was playing to the crowd on that. Even if there is a load of ventilators, there are just not enough staff trained to use them. It isn't a case of plug in and away you go. Hancock is an utter utter c**t, my contempt for him is greater than any of the other members of this rotten government.

Don’t worry I fully agree. It’s all soundbites for the gullible at the moment. Those that think we just need to buy some more beds to increase the capacity of the NHS.

 

[Ring Of Steel]

There may not be a central procurement framework but surely if someone at the top, idk like the health minister for example, told all trusts to ensure they had adequate numbers of ventilators a few months ago they wouldn’t have needed to publicly plead with car part makers on Twitter this week. Unless that was purely optics. I noticed they trotted out the phrase ‘on a war footing’, wonder who that was to appeal to...

In the last 24 hours Germany ordered 10,000 brand new ventilators from Irish manufacturers. Total orders by U.K.? Zero, we’re going to get some car companies to try and build some for us.

 

[Ring Of Steel]

It's good but it's not right!

lol

he’s turning into Colonel Blimp

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

They need to take him out of the frontline. Never thought I'd say this but Andy Burnham is right. Just have one, qualified, person doing a daily briefing. Boris is the last person who should be doing it. He's spent years building up this jokey persona and can't just switch that off.

The press conference last night for example was a shambles. Ignoring if you think the message they are trying to get across is correct or not they are communicating it badly. Was listening on 5Live and as soon as it finished their lines were flooded with people wanting clarification from the medical professional on the show as they didn't understand the advice being given by the government.

The sombrero comment should be gross misconduct - twat

 

[PVA]

In the last 24 hours Germany ordered 10,000 brand new ventilators from Irish manufacturers. Total orders by U.K.? Zero, we’re going to get some car companies to try and build some for us.

"Operation Last Gasp"

If that is true then that would be the end of him.

 

[Mcbean]

I think social media has proliferated armchair experts and those that think their opinion is the right one - what’s clear is somebody needs to be in charge of the country through this global emergency - not sure anyone else wouldn’t be in the same boat of continual criticism - we do need to go forward and this has transcended football - I was stunned by the pictures of cities with no people - this must have some effect - we live in a small village and I can see people helping each other - if you know older peeps make sure you ring them and talk about any old bollox - my neighbour is 94 and we shout at each other - she’s currently fine - my friend at 84 had dementia coming on but lives 7 miles away pretty sure I am going to ring him regularly - make a change to your direction think of your family and what’s important and also consider others around you - if everyone does this it will help !

 

[steve cooper]

not just a Govt but a political culture of demonizing experts - whether it's on economy, health, environment, immigration et al.
People find a theory then search for the expert/data to support it.

Trouble is, there are way too many people claiming to be experts on every subject immaginable. The BBC, ITV, Channels 4 & 5 all have a small army of so called experts repeating government advice either without understanding it themselves, or putting their own slant on things. Take the breifing yesterday. I fully understood the government position on the difference between 7 days and 14 days isolation although it was incredibly badly explained, but a channel 4 journalist tried to get it clalrified, and clearly demonstrated lack of understanding, and later the BBC incorrectly explained it on the news.

 

[better days]

Let's be honest which world leader has handled this well?
It's a problem with no correct answers
Even the brilliant communicator (before he went mad) Tony Blair would have struggled in these circumstances

 

[Colin Steins Smile]

They need to take him out of the frontline. Never thought I'd say this but Andy Burnham is right. Just have one, qualified, person doing a daily briefing. Boris is the last person who should be doing it. He's spent years building up this jokey persona and can't just switch that off.

The press conference last night for example was a shambles. Ignoring if you think the message they are trying to get across is correct or not they are communicating it badly. Was listening on 5Live and as soon as it finished their lines were flooded with people wanting clarification from the medical professional on the show as they didn't understand the advice being given by the government.

Totally agree. The communications from those briefings has not provided clarity on some points.
It would help if the government addressed the most basic of issues. i.e. Ensuring all out Doctors and Nurses had the right protective equipment, as currently they don't! So what happens when they get ill?

 

[shmmeee]

everything is political, this situation s highly political. Ridiculous to pretend otherwise.
And if the government gets it right, you'll be shouting it from the rooftops, if you say otherwise you're lying.

Pointing out Tory mistakes has always been “making things political”. Standard.

 

[ccfc92]

You know what the “19” means in the name I take it. I don’t know what rock you live under but this has been in the news, reported, very much not a secret for months. And if you have the role of “expert” in the medical field working for the government, I would have thought that it would have been of particular interest, no?

You’ve taken leave of your senses completely or been in a drunken stupor for 3 months if you think this is some new surprising development.

Nice side step there.

 

[Ring Of Steel]

Nice side step there.

Side step? You’re talking utter bullshit, and you know it.

This was not a complete surprise and there was plenty of information and experience to use from lots of sources. Unfortunately, they fucked it up. And they’ve confirmed themselves they fucked it up.

What actually are you on about?

 

[Ring Of Steel]

Let's be honest which world leader has handled this well?
It's a problem with no correct answers
Even the brilliant communicator (before he went mad) Tony Blair would have struggled in these circumstances

There may be no foolproof answer, but having to be goaded into saying anything at all is not a good look.

 

[PVA]

Let's be honest which world leader has handled this well?
It's a problem with no correct answers
Even the brilliant communicator (before he went mad) Tony Blair would have struggled in these circumstances

Nobody is saying it's easy, but Boris and Trump seem to be making a bigger hash of this than anyone else.

It seems as though a reality TV star and a disgraced journalist are not ideal heads of state in times of crisis.

Someone like Blair at least exudes confidence and calmness. Like you say he's a brilliant speaker and regardless of whether you agree with what he's saying, at least he comes across like a head of state. Unlike Boris and Trump, who inspire zero confidence and just confuse people.

 

[wingy]

Let's be honest which world leader has handled this well?
It's a problem with no correct answers
Even the brilliant communicator (before he went mad) Tony Blair would have struggled in these circumstances

Maybe the Far East, Germany up to this point.

 

[ccfc92]

Side step? You’re talking utter bullshit, and you know it.

This was not a complete surprise and there was plenty of information and experience to use from lots of sources. Unfortunately, they fucked it up. And they’ve confirmed themselves they fucked it up.

What actually are you on about?

Sounds like you're more happy they have fucked up, than finding a solution. I am just saying, no one knows what is the best action to take. If we were in total lockdown, people would be accusing "the man" of imprisoning the country.

I have changed my stance from not concerned to mildy concerned. More out of preparing for potentially having no work in the coming weeks, but I can also work from home.

Keep calm, adapt and then carry on.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Has anyone heard any mention of the homeless in all this? Its all well and good telling everyone to stay in but what about those that have nowhere to go?

Some countries have made plans to move them into hotels

 

[Ring Of Steel]

Sounds like you're more happy they have fucked up, than finding a solution. I am just saying, no one knows what is the best action to take. If we were in total lockdown, people would be accusing "the man" of imprisoning the country.

I have changed my stance from not concerned to mildy concerned. More out of preparing for potentially having no work in the coming weeks, but I can also work from home.

Keep calm, adapt and then carry on.

You are mistaking happiness for anger. I don’t particularly want my family over there to become seriously ill as the odds are not good for their survival if they become ill. So quite why I’d be happy they’re messing it all up is a mystery to me.

It would not matter who was in charge, if they acted like this they’d be getting the same message. The entire world can seemingly plainly see what they can’t (or won’t), but as someone else said, soon as you dare criticise these people you’re branded “anti Tory”.

it is now beyond politics and I don’t care what party anyone is in, I am not anti Tory, anti Labour- I am however anti-idiots and unfortunately we seem to have a surfeit of idiots making key decisions.

 

[Skyblueweeman]

There's a lot of truth in what you say, and I haven't really passed too much comment about it because I really have little understanding of what is going on.
But what djr8369 said is true. We have a government which has made of huge paly of demonising experts and now all of a sudden they need to try and get the public to listen to them and it looks like it could misfire badly on them.

Me too...as in I'm not expert and don't have a full understanding of everything that's happening.

I just think that given the unknown nature of this and the advice that we're getting from the 'experts', the rationality of their thoughts makes sense. If it has/continues to go wrong, more slack should be given to the uniqueness of the situation.

As someone else mentioned above - which govt has got this right? It's hard to say as we don't know what would've happened had we or other countries taken different paths. It's all pure conjecture.

I cannot wait to get back arguing about who is more of a super-fan or why Robins doesn't make earlier substitutions!