Coronavirus Thread (Off Topic, Politics) (186 Viewers)

[wingy]

I think one reason the numbers are holding up may be due to a segment of the population acting on their own initiative ahead of official advice.
This was coming down the tracks liike train from mid January.
Of course that may have been negated by the folk who initially ignored recommendations.

 

---

[Ring Of Steel]

No I’m asking if you think the whole of the west should be investigated - are you drinking early? In one of those “closed” pubs?

Any country which is dangerously negligent towards the safety of its own people should be held to account. Our government was dangerously negligent towards its own people. Now we have the usual Conservative attempts to airbrush events and divert attention to those nasty foreign countries who are clearly much worse than we are so we should all be grateful. Johnson was on live TV encouraging handshakes while people were dying and the whole world knew what was coming. Sums it up- comically, tragically but unsurprisingly inept.

so Steve- you’re not one of the others who just runs down other countries, but do not come on here trying to pretend that our initial steps were effective- you are lying, they were not, all the U Turns confirm that, keep a modicum of reality here.

 

[Spurs 'City Away Kit' Kit]

Japan is interesting - I suspect it’s culture of natural social distancing may actually prove to be a factor that worked in their favour

I'm not so sure they have a culture of social distancing.......

 

[cc84cov]

"The Bland family have not been tested for coronavirus, but if their results came back positive it means the virus hit UK shores a month earlier than thought."

Without a doubt it was here way before they told us

 

[Grendel]

Any country which is dangerously negligent towards the safety of its own people should be held to account. Our government was dangerously negligent towards its own people. Now we have the usual Conservative attempts to airbrush events and divert attention to those nasty foreign countries who are clearly much worse than we are so we should all be grateful. Johnson was on live TV encouraging handshakes while people were dying and the whole world knew what was coming. Sums it up- comically, tragically but unsurprisingly inept.

In what way were we dangerously negligent and how is that manifesting itself compared to other countries. Odd you also were bigging up Eire and it’s financial support package and then went somewhat silent when the uk launched a huge economic stimulus with more to come tomorrow

 

[clint van damme]

Any country which is dangerously negligent towards the safety of its own people should be held to account. Our government was dangerously negligent towards its own people. Now we have the usual Conservative attempts to airbrush events and divert attention to those nasty foreign countries who are clearly much worse than we are so we should all be grateful. Johnson was on live TV encouraging handshakes while people were dying and the whole world knew what was coming. Sums it up- comically, tragically but unsurprisingly inept.

Jumping up and down and shouting Corbyn won't do it this time so they're playing the no time for point scoring card.

Incredibly though, not one pro government post (of which I have, quite unusually for me), made a couple has been met with the same response.

 

[Grendel]

I'm not so sure they have a culture of social distancing.......

They dont touch each other. They queue in an orderly way and they don’t push and shove. Also much higher hygiene standards. Masks may not be very useful but a lot where them in crowded roads and many where gloves as well

 

[Jcap]

Yes possibly

Japan is very naturally reserved - they keep distance, from orderly queues and like their own space. The Spanish and Italian cultures are the opposite

true it’s a more reserved society but I’m not convinced it’s the only reason. I’ve been to Japan many times and often hve to take the subway during rush hour - which usually means being jammed into sardine like carriages by staff members who are literally pushing passengers in through the doors as they’re closing. Also loads of their bars are tiny and absolutely packed - some are even stand up only bars they’re so small.
I think a bigger factor is likely to be their ability to conform to instruction especially in light of several natural and other man made disasters over the years - they do what they’re told. Also they routinely wear masks if they have any illness that could affect others. In reality it could be just a mix of all of the above including less shaking of hands generally.

 

[better days]

Yes possibly

Japan is very naturally reserved - they keep distance, from orderly queues and like their own space. The Spanish and Italian cultures are the opposite

And Japan is generally warming up as it's Spring now
Summer starts around May/June
Let's hope that's a factor

 

[Ring Of Steel]

Without a doubt it was here way before they told us

And yet we are told that our “initial steps were effective and put us ahead of other countries”.

If it is true then it just brings the criminal ineptitude of our authorities into even harsher focus.

 

[Grendel]

true it’s a more reserved society but I’m not convinced it’s the only reason. I’ve been to Japan many times and often hve to take the subway during rush hour - which usually means being jammed into sardine like carriages by staff members who are literally pushing passengers in through the doors as they’re closing. Also loads of their bars are tiny and absolutely packed - some are even stand up only bars they’re so small.
I think a bigger factor is likely to be their ability to conform to instruction especially in light of several natural and other man made disasters over the years - they do what they’re told. Also they routinely wear masks if they have any illness that could affect others. In reality it could be just a mix of all of the above including less shaking of hands generally.

Yes the tubes and bars are crowded - especially the bars in the underground - actual lack of physical contact may be more significant than we thought. Latin America (so I assume Spain as well) is the opposite - men and women invade your space and are always hugging and embracing

 

[Grendel]

And yet we are told that our “initial steps were effective and put us ahead of other countries”.

If it is true then it just brings the criminal ineptitude of our authorities into even harsher focus.

Oh dear

 

[djr8369]

true it’s a more reserved society but I’m not convinced it’s the only reason. I’ve been to Japan many times and often hve to take the subway during rush hour - which usually means being jammed into sardine like carriages by staff members who are literally pushing passengers in through the doors as they’re closing. Also loads of their bars are tiny and absolutely packed - some are even stand up only bars they’re so small.
I think a bigger factor is likely to be their ability to conform to instruction especially in light of several natural and other man made disasters over the years - they do what they’re told. Also they routinely wear masks if they have any illness that could affect others. In reality it could be just a mix of all of the above including less shaking of hands generally.

While there's no doubt various social and cultural reasons for differences between nations I think the main thing is many of the Asian countries were hit hard by SARs and learnt a lot from it.

 

[chiefdave]

Banks under fire for coronavirus loan tactics

 

[CCFCSteve]

You are trying to rewrite history.

so Steve- you’re not one of the others who just runs down other countries, but do not come on here trying to pretend that our initial steps were effective- you are lying, they were not, all the U Turns confirm that, keep a modicum of reality here.

Not at all. Look back through my posts. For example I asked Sick Boy if Italians were having to go into doctors surgeries if they had symptoms (which they were). We ran a different initial strategy. As I mentioned to DJR (and on previous posts) whether we then utilised the time we brought ourselves wisely, is a different question.

 

[Ring Of Steel]

In what way were we dangerously negligent and how is that manifesting itself compared to other countries. Odd you also were bigging up Eire and it’s financial support package and then went somewhat silent when the uk launched a huge economic stimulus with more to come tomorrow

I’m gonna say this once more and then go back to ignoring the drivel. I focus on there, my family are all there. Everything with you is about trying to prove England is the best, it’s all about trying to demonstrate how Britain is truly great, it’s all a competition. Whereas I want this thing fixed everywhere, you don’t give a shit about anywhere else- “would you rather be in Italy”, slating the Chinese etc- you are highly jingoistic and I have no interest in that stuff. Don't waste your time trying to get me sucked into a “who’s country is best” debate.

 

[better days]

Banks under fire for coronavirus loan tactics

Scumbags
We saved them after they caused the 2008 crash
A bit more on this
CORONAVIRUS
Companies could wait weeks for rescue loans

James Hurley, Enterprise Editor
Wednesday March 25 2020, 12.01am, The Times
Banking
Investment

This restaurant in Covent Garden, central London, shows the impact on the leisure sector of the fight against the spread of the coronavirus
TIMES PHOTOGRAPHER JACK HILL
Share
Save
Emergency loans for companies hit by the Covid-19 pandemic could take more than a month to process, experts have warned, after frontline staff told customers that they were not ready to process applications.

Staff at Natwest, part of Royal Bank of Scotland, Britain’s biggest banker for small companies, have told struggling business owners that they have not yet received instructions on how to deal with the government scheme.

Other lenders have turned away businesses eager to access the credit because they are taking applications only from existing customers owing to high demand.

Ian Cass, managing director of the Forum of Private Business, said: “There seems to be confusion at most of the banks who were approached, with our members being told that they don’t know how the loans will operate and can they ring back next week. The government needs to act quickly to ensure that its announcements are being matched by actions on the ground, or delays could cause many small businesses to collapse.”

The coronavirus business interruption scheme provides loans of up to £5 million to companies with annual sales of up to £45 million. The government underwrites 80 per cent of the risk on individual loans, which are being provided by about 40 banks.

The scheme was launched on Monday, but there are signs that lenders have struggled to get frontline staff prepared. One Natwest customer was told yesterday that relationship managers “haven’t been given any instructions regarding how customers can apply” and are not expecting them until the end of the week.

Natwest said that relationship managers had received guidance and added that training sessions were being provided yesterday.

Rangewell, a business finance intermediary, warned borrowers that the process would take four to six weeks, but it expected lenders to try to expedite urgent cases. It told the government and banks to ensure that directors understand that they remain liable for the full amount of any loan and would be pursued before the state guarantee was called on.

The British Business Bank, which operates the scheme, has opened applications to more lenders, including non-bank lenders such as Funding Circle and Iwoca.



https://www.thetimes.co.uk/topic/banking

 

[skybluetony176]

No I’m asking if you think the whole of the west should be investigated - are you drinking early? In one of those “closed” pubs?

Every country in the world should be investigated. If we don’t how do you think we’ll learn from this event. You’re talking like it’s an option. It isn’t.

 

[Flying Fokker]

Trigger warning: this is the guy who made the graph

Really interesting thread on why absolute and not per capita numbers used here:

I agree.
Look at San Marino and Andorra. The per capita still impacts on the community but there would be a bigger impact on London of course. The London rate is probably going to have a steep climb. I will be more concerned about London hitting San Marino figures although the population may have similar concentration of people.

 

[Ring Of Steel]

Banks under fire for coronavirus loan tactics

yep, I said this yesterday and the usual suspects got wound up.

Anyone looking to avail their companies of the “government assistance” schemes need to be very careful indeed of the fine print (where there is any).

 

[Grendel]

I’m gonna say this once more and then go back to ignoring the drivel. I focus on there, my family are all there. Everything with you is about trying to prove England is the best, it’s all about trying to demonstrate how Britain is truly great, it’s all a competition. Whereas I want this thing fixed everywhere, you don’t give a shit about anywhere else- “would you rather be in Italy”, slating the Chinese etc- you are highly jingoistic and I have no interest in that stuff. Don't waste your time trying to get me sucked into a “whose country is best” debate.

It’s you who talks drivel - you make general claims about negligence, criminals, blood on hands yet can’t seem to explain why you single out the uk for this diatribe

 

[tisza]

Without a doubt it was here way before they told us

for sure. just object to a needless hearsay story - not helpful at these times.

 

[Ring Of Steel]

Scumbags
We saved them after they caused the 2008 crash
A bit more on this
CORONAVIRUS
Companies could wait weeks for rescue loans

James Hurley, Enterprise Editor
Wednesday March 25 2020, 12.01am, The Times
Banking
Investment

This restaurant in Covent Garden, central London, shows the impact on the leisure sector of the fight against the spread of the coronavirus
TIMES PHOTOGRAPHER JACK HILL
Share
Save
Emergency loans for companies hit by the Covid-19 pandemic could take more than a month to process, experts have warned, after frontline staff told customers that they were not ready to process applications.

Staff at Natwest, part of Royal Bank of Scotland, Britain’s biggest banker for small companies, have told struggling business owners that they have not yet received instructions on how to deal with the government scheme.

Other lenders have turned away businesses eager to access the credit because they are taking applications only from existing customers owing to high demand.

Ian Cass, managing director of the Forum of Private Business, said: “There seems to be confusion at most of the banks who were approached, with our members being told that they don’t know how the loans will operate and can they ring back next week. The government needs to act quickly to ensure that its announcements are being matched by actions on the ground, or delays could cause many small businesses to collapse.”

The coronavirus business interruption scheme provides loans of up to £5 million to companies with annual sales of up to £45 million. The government underwrites 80 per cent of the risk on individual loans, which are being provided by about 40 banks.

The scheme was launched on Monday, but there are signs that lenders have struggled to get frontline staff prepared. One Natwest customer was told yesterday that relationship managers “haven’t been given any instructions regarding how customers can apply” and are not expecting them until the end of the week.

Natwest said that relationship managers had received guidance and added that training sessions were being provided yesterday.

Rangewell, a business finance intermediary, warned borrowers that the process would take four to six weeks, but it expected lenders to try to expedite urgent cases. It told the government and banks to ensure that directors understand that they remain liable for the full amount of any loan and would be pursued before the state guarantee was called on.

The British Business Bank, which operates the scheme, has opened applications to more lenders, including non-bank lenders such as Funding Circle and Iwoca.

Just wait until the terms & conditions for the furlough scheme get announced.

 

[Grendel]

yep, I said this yesterday and the usual suspects got wound up.

Anyone looking to avail their companies of the “government assistance” schemes need to be very careful indeed of the fine print (where there is any).

Actually you got mixed up between the loan scheme and the 80% coverage of people’s salaries and alleged these were loans

 

[better days]

And yet we are told that our “initial steps were effective and put us ahead of other countries”.

If it is true then it just brings the criminal ineptitude of our authorities into even harsher focus.

Shadow Health Secretary Jon Ashworth has been generally supportive of the government's actions while also calling it to account for a number of things they could have done better
Generally speaking they have responded positively to his suggestions
All pulling together is what we have to do now
Plenty of time to apportion blame later

 

[Flying Fokker]

I wonder how they can validate who is self employed - I am a professional c*nt stretcher but don’t declare my earnings

Do you do this all in-house?

 

[Ring Of Steel]

Actually you got mixed up between the loan scheme and the 80% coverage of people’s salaries and alleged these were loans

Seeing as you’re not being xenophobic with that I will honour you with an answer. I don’t remember that but maybe you’re right. But having now studied and modelled all of the various schemes, it is a fact that they are not what they appear to be. By a long stretch. And like I said before, they’re rushing this through in 3 weeks when it would normally take a year, so it’s not a complete pop at them, but this is not the “assistance” people think it is.

 

[steve cooper]

I think one reason the numbers are holding up may be due to a segment of the population acting on their own initiative ahead of official advice.
This was coming down the tracks liike train from mid January.
Of course that may have been negated by the folk who initially ignored recommendations.

And that could explain why our serious / critical cases are low as a proportion of all cases, compared to other countries.

 

[Flying Fokker]

And by the same token, could Italy and Spain have had it worse because they are a bit more huggy/kiss on the cheek types for greetings?

The same can also be said for some of our diverse groups in Coventry. If nothing else I now realise a lot of people don’t know what 2 metres is. Interesting that the Dutch are advised to stay 1.5 metres away from each other.

 

[Ring Of Steel]

I think one reason the numbers are holding up may be due to a segment of the population acting on their own initiative ahead of official advice.
This was coming down the tracks liike train from mid January.
Of course that may have been negated by the folk who initially ignored recommendations.

i think this is right. The official advice was so bad and the evidence from elsewhere so stark, a lot of people took it upon themselves to do the right thing. There was even uproar when football stopped before any kind of government info was rolled out, but they sure got it right.

 

[David O'Day]

No 'real booze'?? Have you resorted to making moonshine in your toilet?

Nah just not drinking, couple of cans and I get the itch to go out

 

[tisza]

Shadow Health Secretary Jon Ashworth has been generally supportive of the government's actions while also calling it to account for a number of things they could have done better
Generally speaking they have responded positively to his suggestions
All pulling together is what we have to do now
Plenty of time to apportion blame later

Of course. Opposition parties all over the world will be looking to make political capital out of this once the danger has passed. nature of the beast.

 

[David O'Day]

Vallance hasn’t been dropped has he ?! I’ll happy to amend and say both, the only reason I mentioned Witty solely is I know he’s an epidemiologist

I was referring to our trace and track methods at the early stages (getting people to call 111 rather than going into doctors surgeries, getting them to self isolate and those they’d been into contact with) I presume these had a positive impact looking at the dates of the first/early cases and then the delayed spread after this. The actions taken following is what I think you are referring to ie not starting a lockdown sooner, which I’m sure will be looked into.

Ps No need for the other stuff

Vallance is still doi g the briefings

 

[Grendel]

Seeing as you’re not being xenophobic with that I will honour you with an answer. I don’t remember that but maybe you’re right. But having now studied and modelled all of the various schemes, it is a fact that they are not what they appear to be. By a long stretch. And like I said before, they’re rushing this through in 3 weeks when it would normally take a year, so it’s not a complete pop at them, but this is not the assistance people think it is.

Im not being xenophobic with anything. It’s your anti government blame and all costs mantra that’s the problem

 

[The coventrian]

It’s you who talks drivel - you make general claims about negligence, criminals, blood on hands yet can’t seem to explain why you single out the uk for this diatribe

Because hes a

It’s you who talks drivel - you make general claims about negligence, criminals, blood on hands yet can’t seem to explain why you single out the uk for this diatribe

Because he's a racist twat who hates this country.