Coronavirus Thread (Off Topic, Politics) (105 Viewers)

[MalcSB]

I read about that, is it actually true that they left a note, or is that urban legend?

It was reported at the time, and subsequently given as a reason for poor election performance in 2015 by the bloke who wrote it, Labours Liam Byrne. So yes, it really happened.

 

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[David O'Day]

Didn’t the decade of austerity follow the banks fiasco and Labour famously leaving the note on leaving office saying not to bother looking for the money - there isn’t any?

There was always money, we have an independent central bank.

Also the note is a long running political tradition goin back to the note the tory reggie maudling left for james callaghan in 64.

So do austerity was a political choice to shrink government

 

[Ring Of Steel]

You would hope this thing causes socialist principles to stay in effect where they are useful but I'm sure the various think tanks will be going full throttle for disaster capitalism.

This guy can't wait
https://citywire.co.uk/wealth-manager/news/odey-makes-115m-in-coronavirus-crash/a1339044

 

[wingy]

Has anyone had a look on Euronews this morning
It's grim veiwing from inside a hospital and warnings on the age split being much wider than suggested.

 

[MalcSB]

There was always money, we have an independent central bank.

Also the note is a long running political tradition goin back to the note the tory reggie maudling left for james callaghan in 64.

So do austerity was a political choice to shrink government

Gordon Brown had sold of most our our gold reserves at a time when gold was at a low price. On this occasion, the note was a true reflection of the position.

The point is that reasons for the NHS being where it is goes back through many years and many national administrations of all political persuasions.

 

[wingy]

Spain's gone through the roof again this morning.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Has anyone had a look on Euronews this morning
It's grim veiwing from inside a hospital and warnings on the age split being much wider than suggested.

Any links to what you’re watching?

 

[Astute]

We should have closed up at least a week before we did as we knew what was coming our way, and we should not have allowed the situation of supermarkets looking like a Royal Rumble to get hold of some bog roll.

So out of all them words there was just these two things you say we should have done differently.

So you say we should have gone into lockdown before getting financial matters sorted for those who were going to be put out of work. And the government should have taken over the shops by the sound of it.

 

[shmmeee]

It was reported at the time, and subsequently given as a reason for poor election performance in 2015 by the bloke who wrote it, Labours Liam Byrne. So yes, it really happened.

Its a tradition among chancellors apparently dating back to an outgoing Tory chancellor in 1964 saying to the incoming Labour chancellor “Sorry old cock, to leave it in this shape”.

Of course normally incoming chancellors have the deceny not make political hay out of what is clearly a joke among peers. Decency and George Osbourne aren’t exactly bedfellows though.

 

[shmmeee]

So out of all them words there was just these two things you say we should have done differently.

So you say we should have gone into lockdown before getting financial matters sorted for those who were going to be put out of work. And the government should have taken over the shops by the sound of it.

Yet again I’m genuinely unsure if you have difficulties with reading comprehension or are just playing dumb to start a fight.

 

[David O'Day]

Gordon Brown had sold of most our our gold reserves at a time when gold was at a low price. On this occasion, the note was a true reflection of the position.

The point is that reasons for the NHS being where it is goes back through many years and many national administrations of all political persuasions.

No it wasn't GB sold the gold as it is a terrible holding which only makes money when you sell it. The money was reinvested in other holdings which pay a continuous income to HMT.

Please don't pretend the current state of the NHS is not due to a decade of under investment

 

[Ring Of Steel]

So out of all them words there was just these two things you say we should have done differently.

So you say we should have gone into lockdown before getting financial matters sorted for those who were going to be put out of work. And the government should have taken over the shops by the sound of it.

You're just being silly now, or looking for a row.

 

[Ring Of Steel]

Its a tradition among chancellors apparently dating back to an outgoing Tory chancellor in 1964 saying to the incoming Labour chancellor “Sorry old cock, to leave it in this shape”.

Of course normally incoming chancellors have the deceny not make political hay out of what is clearly a joke among peers. Decency and George Osbourne aren’t exactly bedfellows though.

I had no idea that was a tradition.

 

[Astute]

You are spot on. I find myself in the position of questioning the Conservatives all the time when in fact I am not Tory or labour and dislike them both- but the fact is that the Conservatives are the ones who made the mistakes so its them who get the questions.

As for when, there will never be a when. The spin machine is probably already in overdrive about how Boris became Winston Churhchill and galvanised the nation to beat the Coronavirus. He'll never be put under scrutiny.

Yet again they made mistakes but not how they should have done it better.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

I read about that, is it actually true that they left a note, or is that urban legend?

It's true, but there was a tradition of leaving witty notes... just not to publicise them.

 

[shmmeee]

I had no idea that was a tradition.

Apparently. Not sure if it’s always done or if it’s just that but that’s what Byrne says he was referencing. He should’ve known better but equally Osbourne and Cameron knew damn well what they were doing.

Here: The wider political tradition behind Liam Byrne's misjudged letter

 

[Astute]

You're just being silly now, or looking for a row.

No. You constantly say everything has been done wrong but never come out with how it could have been done better.....that wouldn't have caused major problems elsewhere. You think it would have been best to put everyone on lockdown and not earning money before anything was put in place to help them when there was hardly any cases.

Sensible is like what was said earlier. NHS needs more funding. We should pay more tax.

 

[David O'Day]

It's true, but there was a tradition of leaving witty notes... just not to publicise them.

And certainly not using them in elections

 

[shmmeee]

Yet again they made mistakes but not how they should have done it better.

What should’ve happened:

- Tests purchased for community and NHS testing back in January when it was clear this would become an issue
- Ventilators purchased as well
- And PPE
- A clear, concise as campaign at each stage targeted on social media to give relevant information
- A PM who didn’t tell people he was shaking hands with coronoavirus patients and planning to visit his mum
- A PM who put across a sincere message leaving no doubt about the severity of the situation
- Daily public briefings, not leaking stuff to select journos and putting things in paywalled articles at first.
- Plans for furloughed workers and self employed ready for when lockdown announced
- Follow the obvious plan every other country has followed
- Explain the plan clearly to the public so they know what’s coming
- Ideally brought in a unity war cabinet to remove partisan politics as much as possible

That’s just off the top of my head. Now stop being silly.

 

[djr8369]

What should’ve happened:

- Tests purchased for community and NHS testing back in January when it was clear this would become an issue
- Ventilators purchased as well
- And PPE
- A clear, concise as campaign at each stage targeted on social media to give relevant information
- A PM who didn’t tell people he was shaking hands with coronoavirus patients and planning to visit his mum
- A PM who put across a sincere message leaving no doubt about the severity of the situation
- Daily public briefings, not leaking stuff to select journos and putting things in paywalled articles at first.
- Plans for furloughed workers and self employed ready for when lockdown announced
- Follow the obvious plan every other country has followed
- Explain the plan clearly to the public so they know what’s coming
- Ideally brought in a unity war cabinet to remove partisan politics as much as possible

That’s just off the top of my head. Now stop being silly.

Can I add stopping movement to affected areas sooner. People were still going on holiday in Italy as things kicked off there and it was quite clear what was going to happen.

 

[Astute]

What should’ve happened:

- Tests purchased for community and NHS testing back in January when it was clear this would become an issue
- Ventilators purchased as well
- And PPE
- A clear, concise as campaign at each stage targeted on social media to give relevant information
- A PM who didn’t tell people he was shaking hands with coronoavirus patients and planning to visit his mum
- A PM who put across a sincere message leaving no doubt about the severity of the situation
- Daily public briefings, not leaking stuff to select journos and putting things in paywalled articles at first.
- Plans for furloughed workers and self employed ready for when lockdown announced
- Follow the obvious plan every other country has followed
- Explain the plan clearly to the public so they know what’s coming
- Ideally brought in a unity war cabinet to remove partisan politics as much as possible

That’s just off the top of my head. Now stop being silly.

Being silly? Not at all. Spot on.

But you have contradicted RoS who thinks we should have gone into lockdown before there were any plans to help financially. And that is my point.

There are countries all over the world that have gone into lockdown where people have lost their income. At least in the UK the virus didn't hit us as quick so we had a chance of preparing for it.

You would think that it is the UK that has a total epidemic on our hands and not the countries they try to compare us with. And if the other country is smaller than us we shouldn't look at per capita because it makes it look worse for them.

It is getting more like a party political broadcast than debating how serious the situation is all over the world. And now it seems to be the fault of Boris that people keep buying all the bog rolls as soon as they reach the shop. But yet again you never said a word about this.

 

[Ring Of Steel]

Talking of conspiracy theories- Disney, pandemics and all that..

Daughter is at home watching Disney Plus- movie called Tangled.

In that the evil bad guy keeps the heroine quarantined by telling her that the outside world is dangerous and she'll die if she leaves the house. The town is called Corona

 

[Astute]

Can I add stopping movement to affected areas sooner. People were still going on holiday in Italy as things kicked off there and it was quite clear what was going to happen.

The biggest blunder out of the lot.

Not stopping movements to and from places badly affected. Macron was just as bad. He had a go at those countries in the EU for closing their borders.

Not ordering those working in close proximity of each other to change the way they work or close down.

Bring in laws to combat the problems before lockdown was brought in. We had a week or so that the details could have been sorted.

Bring in better help for the self employed ASAP.

Don't bother with starting the fines off low like they will for ignoring lockdown. But they will.

 

[Ring Of Steel]

Being silly? Not at all. Spot on.

But you have contradicted RoS who thinks we should have gone into lockdown before there were any plans to help financially. And that is my point.

There are countries all over the world that have gone into lockdown where people have lost their income. At least in the UK the virus didn't hit us as quick so we had a chance of preparing for it.

You would think that it is the UK that has a total epidemic on our hands and not the countries they try to compare us with. And if the other country is smaller than us we shouldn't look at per capita because it makes it look worse for them.

It is getting more like a party political broadcast than debating how serious the situation is all over the world. And now it seems to be the fault of Boris that people keep buying all the bog rolls as soon as they reach the shop. But yet again you never said a word about this.

No, the point is that they didn't plan anything because they were too ignorant and stupid to understand what they were dealing with. Nobody else was as pigheaded as we were- maybe the Dutch but they soon had to back down, and the madmen in USA and Brazil of course. You are the one talking about balance sheets, I am referring to saving some lives.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Talking of conspiracy theories- Disney, pandemics and all that..

Daughter is at home watching Disney Plus- moved called Tangled.

In that the evil bad guy keeps the heroine quarantined by telling her that the outside world is dangerous and she'll die if she leaves the house. The town is called Corona

Really???

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Why are the uk not being honest about critical case numbers

 

[djr8369]

A paper here predicting the reemergence of a SARs type virus.

https://cmr.asm.org/content/cmr/20/4/660.full.pdf

"The presence of a large reservoir of SARS-CoV-like viruses in horseshoe bats, together with the culture of eating exotic mammals in southern China, is a time bomb. The possibility of the reemergence of SARS and other novel viruses from animals or laboratories and therefore the need for preparedness should not be ignored"

Incredible how the world was just not prepared for something when the chances of it happening eventually are 100%. There will always been pandemics of some kind.

 

[Liquid Gold]

Its a tradition among chancellors apparently dating back to an outgoing Tory chancellor in 1964 saying to the incoming Labour chancellor “Sorry old cock, to leave it in this shape”.

Of course normally incoming chancellors have the deceny not make political hay out of what is clearly a joke among peers. Decency and George Osbourne aren’t exactly bedfellows though.

It's true, but there was a tradition of leaving witty notes... just not to publicise them.

It's a well known fact that the treasury note was part of a long tradition but it's still being used as a stick to beat Labour with.

With regards 'now isn't the time' - when else will be the time? Once this is over you can bet the country will want to get out and get on with things and try to look forward, us included. Now is exactly the time to talk about how and why our NHS is underfunded. 10 years of politically driven austerity proceeded by 30 years of neo-liberal privatisations is a good place to start.

 

[Astute]

Yet again I’m genuinely unsure if you have difficulties with reading comprehension or are just playing dumb to start a fight.

Have you not read what he said? Or are you playing dumb to start a fight.

 

[Astute]

No, the point is that they didn't plan anything because they were too ignorant and stupid to understand what they were dealing with. Nobody else was as pigheaded as we were- maybe the Dutch but they soon had to back down, and the madmen in USA and Brazil of course. You are the one talking about balance sheets, I am referring to saving some lives.

So you have a go at them for not planning then have a go at them for not locking down before they had made plans.

Which one is it?

 

[Ring Of Steel]

Really???

yes- I checked it out first myself as it sounded crazy, but its true

Tangled - Wikipedia

 

[Astute]

Why are the uk not being honest about critical case numbers

Because the Tories are in charge. They are always dishonest.

If they did more tests we would know more. We would know who to segregate.

 

[Astute]

A paper here predicting the reemergence of a SARs type virus.

https://cmr.asm.org/content/cmr/20/4/660.full.pdf

"The presence of a large reservoir of SARS-CoV-like viruses in horseshoe bats, together with the culture of eating exotic mammals in southern China, is a time bomb. The possibility of the reemergence of SARS and other novel viruses from animals or laboratories and therefore the need for preparedness should not be ignored"

Incredible how the world was just not prepared for something when the chances of it happening eventually are 100%. There will always been pandemics of some kind.

Always wondered what was in Wonton soup.

 

[Ring Of Steel]

A paper here predicting the reemergence of a SARs type virus.

https://cmr.asm.org/content/cmr/20/4/660.full.pdf

"The presence of a large reservoir of SARS-CoV-like viruses in horseshoe bats, together with the culture of eating exotic mammals in southern China, is a time bomb. The possibility of the reemergence of SARS and other novel viruses from animals or laboratories and therefore the need for preparedness should not be ignored"

Incredible how the world was just not prepared for something when the chances of it happening eventually are 100%. There will always been pandemics of some kind.

That is horrific.

Think I said this before, but I have read and seen that at any given time, there are 5-10 viruses being analysed & controlled in labs which if somehow released would pose a clear & present threat to the human race. Don't know if this one would be up there in that elite group, but if not you dread to think what else is out there. Bill Gates has also been saying this for years, pretty sure you can see him on youtube saying that if people realised how close we could be at any time to being wiped out by some lethal exotic disease, our entire pattern of behaviour and way of living would change overnight.

edit... and I'm willing to bet that had anyone 6 months ago came out and said "we need to change the way we live as a society, right now, because we are creating a world that could be wiped out by infection", they would have been mocked, ridiculed, and generally verbally abused. But they would have been dead right.

 

[Astute]

Things looking bad for London

London hospitals facing coronavirus 'tsunami'